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Apparently  Donald Trump as been quoted as saying on the Syrian crisis   "  I wont be pulling out till ive finished"    A similar quote was also made on the Stormy Daniels Affair.

Yet I see people airing their same old agendas over the issue (elsewhere on forums) proclaiming it's all the fault of Trump and the inept UK government. It'd be laughable if it wasn't both annoying an

I find this and your previous comments revolting. You, and a few others, are more obsessed and excited with tactical military shenanigans ( about which you know less than nothing)  between the po

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With a typical show of hubris Putin has been using the state controlled media to flood the country with propaganda extolling the virtue of his raising the stakes in Syria and reinforcing the idea that Russia has an equal place at the top table.

 

As with the conflict in Ukraine, Russian television has created a virtual reality that excludes any suffering by Russian soldiers. But unlike in Ukraine, where the fictitious enemy (“Ukrainian fascistsâ€) was invented by the media, in Syria Russia faces a real enemy that cannot be switched off. A Russian airbase is vulnerable to insurgent attack. Alexander Khramchikhin, a Russian military expert, argues that if Russia really wants to defeat IS, it will have to commit far greater resources. Meanwhile, in the face of Russia’s economic difficulties, the domestic political effectiveness of virtual-reality warfare has limits. “They feed us propaganda,†says Tamara Vasileva, a pensioner from a small town in the north of Russia, “but you can’t spread propaganda on a piece of bread.â€

 

Broadly speaking this amounts to killing innocents in the Middle East and starving them at home. A utopia it is not.

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I personally think colder Winters are a good thing especially in the Baltics and the Ukraine because both sides wouldn't bother to attack each other so that means the likelihood of a WW3 would be slim by then. Russian Winters can be deadly, look what happened during WW2 Hitler invaded Russia and failed due to the Russian Winter.

 

But risk of WW3 still there in Syria even if during the Winter though but Russia only involving there for a few months to bomb ISIS.

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I personally think colder Winters are a good thing especially in the Baltics and the Ukraine because both sides wouldn't bother to attack each other so that means the likelihood of a WW3 would be slim by then. Russian Winters can be deadly, look what happened during WW2 Hitler invaded Russia and failed due to the Russian Winter.

 

But risk of WW3 still there in Syria even if during the Winter though but Russia only involving there for a few months to bomb ISIS.

There's little risk of WW3. That would only occur if Russian or NATO troops invaded each others countries.

There's a higher threat of Ukraine or Syria ending up hot though like Vietnam or Korea.

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With a typical show of hubris Putin has been using the state controlled media to flood the country with propaganda extolling the virtue of his raising the stakes in Syria and reinforcing the idea that Russia has an equal place at the top table.

 

As with the conflict in Ukraine, Russian television has created a virtual reality that excludes any suffering by Russian soldiers. But unlike in Ukraine, where the fictitious enemy (“Ukrainian fascistsâ€) was invented by the media, in Syria Russia faces a real enemy that cannot be switched off. A Russian airbase is vulnerable to insurgent attack. Alexander Khramchikhin, a Russian military expert, argues that if Russia really wants to defeat IS, it will have to commit far greater resources. Meanwhile, in the face of Russia’s economic difficulties, the domestic political effectiveness of virtual-reality warfare has limits. “They feed us propaganda,†says Tamara Vasileva, a pensioner from a small town in the north of Russia, “but you can’t spread propaganda on a piece of bread.â€

 

Broadly speaking this amounts to killing innocents in the Middle East and starving them at home. A utopia it is not.

To my mind this is what Putin is after - I think we must remember that with the fall of the Soviet system, the economic problems, the rise of the mafioski, a drunken buffoon as a president for a while and a defeat and ignoble withdrawal from Afghanistan must have been humiliating times for many Russians, some who mourned the passing of the old Soviet system despite its drawbacks because at least they knew where they stood then.

 

Putin was trained as a KGB operative under the old Soviet system so I suggest that all these matters give us a clue as to his thought processes - he is ruthless and flexing his muscles in order to put Russia back on the world stage and show others that he is a force to reckoned with. At the same time he is a cunning and shrewd operator who knows just how far he can go. The last thing he wants is an all out confrontation with his old enemy, the West but he is willing to play games of brinkmanship and to a fairly great extent this is working - the majority of Russians now think he is the best thing since sliced bread and he has given these people some pride back in their nation.  

 

We can only wait and see as to what happens post Putin.

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There's little risk of WW3. That would only occur if Russian or NATO troops invaded each others countries.

There's a higher threat of Ukraine or Syria ending up hot though like Vietnam or Korea.

 

The chances of a nuclear exchange especially are minimal. The doctrine of mutually assured destruction ensures that.

 

A thought to ponder. All western attempts to remove dictators in the middle East have ended in disaster, failed and semi-failed states that breed chaos and terror. We should at least consider that Russian attempts to stabilise Syria have some merits. Create a stable situation which can then be influenced in a controlled manner. We all know the Russians have vested interest of course, strategically and geo-politically but to dismiss their approach out of hand is rather simplistic.

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I personally think colder Winters are a good thing especially in the Baltics and the Ukraine because both sides wouldn't bother to attack each other so that means the likelihood of a WW3 would be slim by then. Russian Winters can be deadly, look what happened during WW2 Hitler invaded Russia and failed due to the Russian Winter.

 

not sure what cold winters have to do with anything...its a commonly held fallacy that the German invasion of Russia failed due to the Russian winter... it failed simply because although the German Army inflicted three cataclysmic defeats on the Red Army at Smolensk. Kiev and the battles on the road to Moscow..the Red army was still standing and in doing so the Germans had become a spent force themselves and had no plan B...A bit like the rumble in the Jungle with the Germans being Foreman and the Russians being Mohammed Ali

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not sure what cold winters have to do with anything...its a commonly held fallacy that the German invasion of Russia failed due to the Russian winter... it failed simply because although the German Army inflicted three cataclysmic defeats on the Red Army at Smolensk. Kiev and the battles on the road to Moscow..the Red army was still standing and in doing so the Germans had become a spent force themselves and had no plan B...A bit like the rumble in the Jungle with the Germans being Foreman and the Russians being Mohammed Ali

Indeed. Then again, only a 'genius' like Hitler would invade the USSR, during the Russian winter? Charisma, hubris and a Messiah complex do not make one a military genius.

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The chances of a nuclear exchange especially are minimal. The doctrine of mutually assured destruction ensures that.

 

A thought to ponder. All western attempts to remove dictators in the middle East have ended in disaster, failed and semi-failed states that breed chaos and terror. We should at least consider that Russian attempts to stabilise Syria have some merits. Create a stable situation which can then be influenced in a controlled manner. We all know the Russians have vested interest of course, strategically and geo-politically but to dismiss their approach out of hand is rather simplistic.

Well if all we value is stability then leaving tyrants around is probably a good idea (and Russia has clearly decided that a stable, friendly government is the priority).

The flaw with Iraq and elsewhere is that we installed democracy but never tackled the cultural deficiencies. We should have ripped apart Islamic institutions, enforced a western constitution on them and then slowly relaxed power to a secular, business friendly government. Destroying the army was also a horrid idea once they'd surrendered.

But then the question here is to what degree do states have rights, even the ones people like me deem inferior.

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The flaw with Iraq and elsewhere is that we installed democracy but never tackled the cultural deficiencies. We should have ripped apart Islamic institutions, enforced a western constitution on them and then slowly relaxed power to a secular, business friendly government. Destroying the army was also a horrid idea once they'd surrendered.

But then the question here is to what degree do states have rights, even the ones people like me deem inferior.

Over inflated ego issue here plus to be dictatorships would need a lot of man power money much more than we can provide.

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So you are superior? No wonder the world's in the state it is! :wallbash:  :wallbash:

 

Hang on, we can't bury our heads in the sand and claim all methods of government and culture are equal. I consider a regime like the Wahhabi's in Saudi Arabia for example to be inferior to western liberal democracy. I shouldn't have to explain why.

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Russian-made missile hit MH17 cockpit, killing crew before crash

 

 

A Russian-made missile exploded less than a yard from the cockpit of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17, killing all three crew members before the jetliner crashed with 298 people aboard, according to a report released Tuesday by Dutch investigators.

 

“Flight MH17 crashed as a result of the detonation of a warhead outside the airplane against the left-hand side of the cockpit,†said Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, AFP reported. “This warhead fits the kind of missile that is installed in the BUK surface-to-air missile system.â€

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Hard reading and listening - your imagination works overtime. Those poor families and friends (as ever). Mr Sweeney who hopes his son died quickly, and yet there is evidence of people putting on oxygen masks, and that his son might not have had quick death - how can you live with that, how can you cause that. Just like the Germanwings crash (when it was murder but with diminished responsibility), there was time to be aware, it seems. Even a minute is long enough for agonised thoughts. This is the true evil of the murderous act that was committed.

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Someone fired the missile & probably feels very guilty. That person should tell the truth but probably isnt allowed to. It's a terrible tragedy & many families are suffering & struggling to cope.

The west warned Russia to not go into the independent Ukraine & to not give rebels dangerous weapons but as usual stubborn russia didn't listen. Then russian soldiers admitted to it!

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Someone fired the missile & probably feels very guilty. That person should tell the truth but probably isnt allowed to. It's a terrible tragedy & many families are suffering & struggling to cope.

The west warned Russia to not go into the independent Ukraine & to not give rebels dangerous weapons but as usual stubborn russia didn't listen. Then russian soldiers admitted to it!

 

I strongly suspect the chap who fired the missile has long since had a bullet put in his head to keep him quiet. Also lets not be under any illusions over Russia being stubborn or bad. The morally sanctimonious west has been involved in just as many, if not more interference and arms supply that has killed innocent civilians. Putin is a very intelligent man, regardless of his morals, and he wouldn't have sanctioned the killing of foreigners in a civilian plane. The people who pushed the trigger were most likely ignorant separatists who couldn't tell their bottom from their elbow and just decided to shoot down the big white plane.

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Unless you're reading a different report to me, it lays no criticism on Russia at all.

Moreover it says the missile was fired from a 320sq km area of Eastern Ukraine - some of which was under the control of the Ukrainian army, some units of which were armed with Buk missiles.

I appreciate that the West decided guilt long before the inquiry bagan.

I'm disappointed that people choose to ignore the report and continue their long held pre-determined position.

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Unless you're reading a different report to me, it lays no criticism on Russia at all.

Moreover it says the missile was fired from a 320sq km area of Eastern Ukraine - some of which was under the control of the Ukrainian army, some units of which were armed with Buk missiles.

I appreciate that the West decided guilt long before the inquiry bagan.

I'm disappointed that people choose to ignore the report and continue their long held pre-determined position.

I see where you're coming from but it's most likely Russian tbh ...
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Unless you're reading a different report to me, it lays no criticism on Russia at all.

Moreover it says the missile was fired from a 320sq km area of Eastern Ukraine - some of which was under the control of the Ukrainian army, some units of which were armed with Buk missiles.

I appreciate that the West decided guilt long before the inquiry bagan.

I'm disappointed that people choose to ignore the report and continue their long held pre-determined position.

But I think that it's either the Russians or, far more likely, a Russian-backed nutter who cannot take instructions? Mr Putin is far too clever to make a mistake like that, IMO...

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People's perceptions are managed by western media. You think the separatists are responsible because you're conditioned to assume that the west and its allies are the good guys with their 'values' whilst the Russians are either corrupt mafia or oppressed by a President who is compared to Hitler.

Yet consider that only 2 weeks ago the US bombed a hospital in Afghanistan, that it has not formally accepted responsibility, and that the bombing continued for 30 minutes after NATO were informed of the 'accident'.

Do you think this really was a terrible accident, given that the location of the MSF hospital was well known, or was it a deliberate act to kill militants believed to be in the facility? Remember that the West is perfectly capable of committing gross war crimes, and you might also consider whether the Ukrainians shot down MH17 deliberately in order to frame the 'Russian' backed separatists.

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People's perceptions are managed by western media. You think the separatists are responsible because you're conditioned to assume that the west and its allies are the good guys with their 'values' whilst the Russians are either corrupt mafia or oppressed by a President who is compared to Hitler.

Yet consider that only 2 weeks ago the US bombed a hospital in Afghanistan, that it has not formally accepted responsibility, and that the bombing continued for 30 minutes after NATO were informed of the 'accident'.

Do you think this really was a terrible accident, given that the location of the MSF hospital was well known, or was it a deliberate act to kill militants believed to be in the facility? Remember that the West is perfectly capable of committing gross war crimes, and you might also consider whether the Ukrainians shot down MH17 deliberately in order to frame the 'Russian' backed separatists.

 

It is worth remembering that there are some extremely nasty people who were involved in the Euromaidan revolution. As in ultra right wing neo-nazi nasty. Look up Svoboda for example.

 

Yet another example of where moral binaries and black and white thinking mask reality. We cannot simply bleat 'Ukraine good, Russia bad'

 

(with apologies to Orwell for my clumsy paraphrasing and acknowledging there are good and bad people on both sides of this issue)

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People's perceptions are managed by western media.

Not generally on here they are not. Normally the Russian propaganda machine is given pride of place. In fact there is a rumour doing the rounds that some may be up for The Order of Lenin.

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