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Pennine Ten Foot Drifts

The War On Drugs - is it 'working', and why is it a 'war' anyway ?

Drugs - is the current approach the best approach ?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the war on drugs working ?

    • Yes
      2
    • No
      47
  2. 2. Should all drugs be legalised and availability and quality managed by the government

    • Yes
      31
    • No
      17


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What about the percentage of young people who end up with severe mental health issues and psychosis?

 

Such outcomes result from very heavy use of very strong strains of cannabis, and the evidence does suggest that cannabis can't induce psychosis  in someone who doesn't have an existing predisposition to it. It's also likely to be a bit of a chicken and egg situation, and similar to substance abuse of alcohol or anything else - such excessive use patterns are themselves likely to result from an underlying mental health issue.

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Well, you say the US is leading the way, that's not entirely true. A select few states have made sensible changes, but weed is still very much illegal in federal law. The federal government is making baby steps (such as making it easier to research the medical benefits of cannabis) but there is a long way to go.

 

Meanwhile, in the UK, we have made virtually no progress. With the witch that is Theresa May in charge of the Home Office, I can't see it changing any time soon.

 

Kudos to Durham Police though, I'd much rather they target crimes that have victims rather than someone having a small bag of plant material.

 

Yes no chance of Theresa may doing anything or a conservative government I feel but did you see this yesterday -

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/25/cannabis-legalisation-petition-government-website

 

Should be interesting to see if they debate it now?

 

The direct link is here - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104349

Edited by Nights King

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Yes no chance of Theresa may doing anything or a conservative government I feel but did you see this yesterday -

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/25/cannabis-legalisation-petition-government-website

 

Should be interesting to see if they debate it now?

 

Even if they do, it will be the same old misinformed opinions from Labour and most of the Tories. There are a few Tories which see sense, and there used to be a lot of Lib Dems who were sympathetic to change (most lost their seats though). We're a long, long way off any major changes. The fact that khat was criminalised not long ago shows this.

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Even if they do, it will be the same old misinformed opinions from Labour and most of the Tories. There are a few Tories which see sense, and there used to be a lot of Lib Dems who were sympathetic to change (most lost their seats though). We're a long, long way off any major changes. The fact that khat was criminalised not long ago shows this.

 

Of course there is always strong opposition from groups that want to keep it illegal because it will affect their business like alcohol companies 'pouring' money into the anti cannabis lobbies as well as pharmaceutical companies that don't want a cheap alternative for their patients.  :nonono:

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So if I have this straight the government, wants to relax the laws on drugs such as Cannabis, and clamp down on legal highs, whilst those in power enjoy their favourite line of cocaine on video and get away without a charge (the precedence has been set for taking cocaine on video). Smoking is set to become illegal in cars, and on Brighton beach, and video evidence will be acceptable as prosecution evidence?

 

If screaming Lord Such came up with those policies, the public would have thought the Monster Raving Looney Party had finally lost it!!    

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Hypocritical and sanctimonious is how I'd view current drug laws and the tripe peddled by some politicians. Even with Durham taking a more liberal stance the attitude was still anyone smoking a joint was some hopeless drug addict that needs help.

 

Maybe we should take this attitude to all drinkers who present a much bigger danger to society. Politicians need to wisen up, people smoke cannabis because they enjoy it, 99% do not need any help and live perfectly productive lives.

 

They certainly don't need out of touch, politically correct politicians telling them they're in desperate need of help.

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So if I have this straight the government, wants to relax the laws on drugs such as Cannabis, and clamp down on legal highs, whilst those in power enjoy their favourite line of cocaine on video and get away without a charge (the precedence has been set for taking cocaine on video). Smoking is set to become illegal in cars, and on Brighton beach, and video evidence will be acceptable as prosecution evidence?

If screaming Lord Such came up with those policies, the public would have thought the Monster Raving Looney Party had finally lost it!!

You could replace government with 'current opinion' tbh.

The unknown nature of illegal highs makes them a target of the state (and rightly so from what I've seen)

Good to see them relaxing laws on cannabis.

Cocaine remains very much illegal and IMO will remain so for the foreseeable and beyond.

As long as you don't get caught... Personal amounts on any drug don't usually result in a big problem. A lot of people have taken cocaine, perhaps not increasing (not sure what the study which found LSD and Ecstacy use to be up, concluded about Coke) but not really declining either. Particularly amongst many party goers.

As the old saying goes

"Shagging 9s, snorting lines"

Why should you be allowed to smoke in cars when children are there (or others without their explicit consent)?

Are you trying to compare the lax attitude towards Cocaine and cannabis with restrictions on smoking in cars. You do realise people will be pummelled if found to be on any substance while driving (ie drink, coke, whatever), not sure why tobacco should be so excludeda and given big privileges.

You effect others by smoking in their presence in case you are unaware.

So nah mate, don't really get what your trippin' about tbh.

-----------------

Agree with most of what has been said previously in this thread.

Not sure of we will really make progress in the UK (ie full legalisation).

DC is on record saying he supports 'radical change' towards weed and even other drugs yet seems to have kept quiet on the issue many years on. There just is too much baggage and stigma surrounding certain drugs in this country

that no politician (of real influence) will want to stick their neck out on the line and push forward with change (that would be supported).

I'd settle for some decriminalisation ie having some 'personal' in your car or whatever isn't grounds for prosecution or

criminal record etc. Same goes for Ecstacy and Cocaine.

(Except weed dealers should be dealt with less severely than dealers of coke and Ecstacy)

Edited by SW Saltire

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So if I have this straight the government, wants to relax the laws on drugs such as Cannabis, and clamp down on legal highs, whilst those in power enjoy their favourite line of cocaine on video and get away without a charge (the precedence has been set for taking cocaine on video). Smoking is set to become illegal in cars, and on Brighton beach, and video evidence will be acceptable as prosecution evidence?
 
If screaming Lord Such came up with those policies, the public would have thought the Monster Raving Looney Party had finally lost it!!    

 

 

To be precise smoking in cars is not becoming illegal in cars but in cars carry children as it's thought, probably correctly, that second hand smoking can damage children's health. As a smoker I don't have a problem with that.

 

Interestly on that subject I was sitting on the bench outside Tescos the other day waiting for a taxi, Next to were sat two women with a toddler in a pram in front of them. The woman nearest turned and asked me whether I mind if she smoked and I replied not at all. So she proceeded to light up and blow smoke of the little one. On reflection instead of just saying not all I should have said no but the baby might.

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Let's be clear, there has been no relaxing of laws by the government regarding cannabis whatsoever. I think there has been a little misunderstanding.

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So if I have this straight the government, wants to relax the laws on drugs such as Cannabis, and clamp down on legal highs, whilst those in power enjoy their favourite line of cocaine on video and get away without a charge (the precedence has been set for taking cocaine on video). Smoking is set to become illegal in cars, and on Brighton beach, and video evidence will be acceptable as prosecution evidence?
 
If screaming Lord Such came up with those policies, the public would have thought the Monster Raving Looney Party had finally lost it!!    

 

 

To be precise smoking in cars is not becoming illegal  but in cars carrying children as it's thought, probably correctly, that second hand smoking can damage children's health. As a smoker I don't have a problem with that.

 

Interestly on that subject I was sitting on the bench outside Tescos the other day waiting for a taxi, Next to me were sat two women with a toddler in a pram in front of them. The woman nearest turned and asked me whether I mind if she smoked and I replied not at all. So she proceeded to light up and blow smoke all over the little one. On reflection instead of just saying not at all I should have said no but the baby might.

Edited by knocker

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There are some drugs which are just too physically addictive and should remain illegal like heroin.

 

Resources should be strictly aimed at harder drugs and dealers where the criminal element is far more wide reaching, there needs to be a sensible debate based on science and not what politicians think.

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Let's be clear, there has been no relaxing of laws by the government regarding cannabis whatsoever. I think there has been a little misunderstanding.

In my original post I never said there was....

Not sure why I said the complete opposite in the post only a couple up, although a slackening in police scrutiny on small growers/users of weed has been seen by some as symbolic and significant. Far above the excuse of lack of money, in some people's eyes.

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There are some drugs which are just too physically addictive and should remain illegal like heroin.

Resources should be strictly aimed at harder drugs and dealers where the criminal element is far more wide

reaching, there needs to be a sensible debate based on science and not what politicians think.

Agree Nick, although the general populous are heavily set in their ways. Weed has a Hippie stigma so that'll take time to fade, perhaps a new generation will become more liberal on this issue... Who knows?

I can't see others drugs changing and in the case of Heroin/Meth/Crack I'm not sure I want to change our policy on those life ruining drugs

Edited by SW Saltire

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Just think of how much progress could be made on this issue if the Daily Mail brigade had no influence?

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Agree Nick, although the general populous are heavily set in their ways. Weed has a Hippie stigma so that'll take time to fade, perhaps a new generation will become more liberal on this issue... Who knows?

I can't see others drugs changing and in the case of Heroin/Meth/Crack I'm sure I want to change our policy on those life ruining drugs

The problem is that governments continually ignore their own scientific advice as was the case when the Drugs Advisory Board came to conclusions they didn't like and the Lead scientist was sacked!

 

Surely the public realize that resources need to be pinpointed to drugs like heroin and that prosecuting cannabis smokers not only criminalizes those people but stops the police from dealing with criminal gangs and hard drugs as they are wasting valuable resources in other areas.

 

The UK is not alone in this antiquated drug response, France is even worse with harsher penalties for cannabis use.

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Read an interesting article highlighting Portugal not long ago. No, their world did not by all accounts cave in.

Edited by fazer76

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Set in their ways? Anyone with enough political clout to be brave enough to be a bit more vocal perhaps. Considering booze is freely available 24/7 and revenues are happily accepted, this is always going to be the stumbling block. Which causes most harm? Career politicians who're more concerned about yes their own careers, or those who lack the backbone to speak out. Again, for the same reasons.

I don't deny that there is an unmistakable contradiction between the 'all drugs are bad' brigade and their acceptance of alcohol and tobacco.

However, polls have shown a lead for those against legalisation of cannabis (narrow, 55-45 or even closer for some of the countries in the UK).

Other drugs - even less support for just decriminalisation. Ecstacy is a phase and coke is an (unspoken) preserve of the rich and famous would be the media pushed views.

Not sure of want either of those drugs fully legalised.

Just a bit more slack cut...

I mean you have areas of basically uncontrolled drug use abroad is party resorts - Ibiza, Kavos, Magaluf etc. 'Where the Brits go to party'....

I people want to take stuff at a rave or in their flat after a night out, which is: of their own volition, they are an adult and take full responsibility for their actions then let them...

N.B. I have amended my horrendous typo on my last post. I do not want policy changed on meth/crack/heroin etc, apart from treating those effected more like patients and them being ill. I wouldn't want those very hard drugs. legalised.

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Are we then overran with too many hypocrites SW Saltire? Simple question that some would find hard to answer.

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I don't deny that there is an unmistakable contradiction between the 'all drugs are bad' brigade and their acceptance of alcohol and tobacco.

However, polls have shown a lead for those against legalisation of cannabis (narrow, 55-45 or even closer for some of the countries in the UK).

Other drugs - even less support for just decriminalisation. Ecstacy is a phase and coke is an (unspoken) preserve of the rich and famous would be the media pushed views.

Not sure of want either of those drugs fully legalised.

Just a bit more slack cut...

I mean you have areas of basically uncontrolled drug use abroad is party resorts - Ibiza, Kavos, Magaluf etc. 'Where the Brits go to party'....

I people want to take stuff at a rave or in their flat after a night out, which is: of their own volition, they are an adult and take full responsibility for their actions then let them...

N.B. I have amended my horrendous typo on my last post. I do not want policy changed on meth/crack/heroin etc, apart from treating those effected more like patients and them being ill. I wouldn't want those very hard drugs. legalised.

 

Even at 55 - 45 that's quite close considering all the anti cannabis scare mongering and misinformation the the media have peddled for decades over the issue. 

 

An interesting documentary I watched a month ago on the subject if anyone gets the chance called "culture High" its worth a look.

Edited by Nights King

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The USA has seen a fundamental shift in cannabis legalisation support in recent years...

 

f9nyco05-um-ww_mfbuo9q.gif

 

With the success of legalisation in Colorado and other states, you can only see it continuing.

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Are we then overran with too many hypocrites SW Saltire? Simple question that some would find hard to answer.

  

Are we over-run with too many hypocrites?

At the moment, yes.

Too many see alcohol as not a 'drug'. Too many have an irrational fear of weed and I'd chuck in Ecstacy to that too (danger is what the latter is cut with).

Even at 55 - 45 that's quite close considering all the anti cannabis scare mongering and misinformation the the media have peddled for decades over the issue. 

 

An interesting documentary I watched a month ago on the subject if anyone gets the chance called "culture High" its worth a look.

Agreed. With a more liberal generation that could be overcome.

I think regional autonomy would yield the greatest chance of wholesale change...

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The USA has seen a fundamental shift in cannabis legalisation support in recent years...

 

f9nyco05-um-ww_mfbuo9q.gif

 

With the success of legalisation in Colorado and other states, you can only see it continuing.

 

Its a gradual change I think we are seeing in this country now as information flows freely on the internet and social media along with news of other country's success stories it will get increasingly hard for them to keep a lid on it.

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Silly thing is caffeine or too much of can be a detriment to health and well being?

Edited by fazer76

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Silly thing is caffeine or too much of can have a detriment to health and well being?

 

It has killed more people   :D  :rofl:

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It has killed more people   :D  :rofl:

When was the last time you heard reports of a brawl following several cups of strong coffee?

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