Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Pennine Ten Foot Drifts

The War On Drugs - is it 'working', and why is it a 'war' anyway ?

Drugs - is the current approach the best approach ?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the war on drugs working ?

    • Yes
      2
    • No
      47
  2. 2. Should all drugs be legalised and availability and quality managed by the government

    • Yes
      31
    • No
      17


Recommended Posts

Thanks for the reply.

I'm guessing 'brick weed' is cheaper?...

Fair enough, I can imagine a few joints of less THC quantity could allow you to (especially since it's daily) cope fine.

Whereas, 3 joints (fairly packed) of normal/decent stuff would get most people to a point where it's very noticeable that they are high. We also have a pretty decent bong (with two gauses so two people can be lighting it while someone inhales) so that makes everyone completely 'baked'.

Have you had a day recently where you didn't smoke? And if so did you feel any adverse effects?

I'll stop with the questions after this as I feel I'm probably taking the thread off topic

 

Sorry SW S, I had to rush out last night. Yes, brick weed is a lot cheaper.. Also I rarely drink alcohol and I don't smoke cigarettes so.. When I have gone a few weeks without smoking it, I find I get stressed out easier. That first spliff after a break really is heaven (to me anyway).

 

Just no, I find those that take drugs frequently are usually depressed and feel that something in their life is lacking, or you get the odd intoxicated brawl, I don't mind occasional use ... Usually its a source of escaping from reality, but the reality is the very thing they should be facing, if I heard someone was taking ecstasy/MDMA or whatever in my view your credibility is gone. The UK is not holland, and long may that remain IMHO. Seriously perhaps for medicinal purposes, but for everyday use. This is why you get crazy shootings in US once you start legalising certain things. Controversial topic... It may save lives but in the long term more will be affected.

 

Pfft! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry SW S, I had to rush out last night. Yes, brick weed is a lot cheaper.. Also I rarely drink alcohol and I don't smoke cigarettes so.. When I have gone a few weeks without smoking it, I find I get stressed out easier. That first spliff after a break really is heaven (to me anyway).

Thanks for your reply once again. Fair enough, everyone has something that they do for relaxation or to de-stress.

Most people's drug of choice is of course alcohol, then probably tobacco but weed isn't that far behind.

I also, wonder (with regard to the survey I posted) how many do take stuff but wouldn't say... I highly doubt I'd say I did anything and might even play down my drinking too. I doubt drug use is way higher that what was found but I do believe there will be a 'shy' factor involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your reply once again. Fair enough, everyone has something that they do for relaxation or to de-stress.

Most people's drug of choice is of course alcohol, then probably tobacco but weed isn't that far behind.

I also, wonder (with regard to the survey I posted) how many do take stuff but wouldn't say... I highly doubt I'd say I did anything and might even play down my drinking too. I doubt drug use is way higher that what was found but I do believe there will be a 'shy' factor involved.

 

That's the problem, it's very much a taboo topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would decriminalize all drugs except for heroine and meth.

 

1024px-Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm

Edited by cheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would decriminalize all drugs except for heroine and meth.

 

1024px-Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm

 

These are the findings that saw Prof David Nutt (former drug advisor to the Labour govt) sacked. 

 

This government's criminalisation of khat just looks even more moronic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see caffeine is not on that plot? One of my bands had 3 Drs in it ( none medical) and one of them related a tale that his mentor told him. Post WW2 the UK decided to 'test' coffee for any bad effects seeing as the US troop invasion had introduced us brits into the habit. The testing was done and it was found to be near as damaging as tobacco/alcohol. In steps the US and threats of calling in war debts should we restrict the use of 'coffee' and did not criminalise cannabis........ how many druggies out there don't view themselves as such because of the power post war USA had over the UK? ....... how many law abiding citizens are made criminals by that same yardstick?

 

When I was cautioned at Uni ( use of a controlled substance) the Chief inspector said he had no issues with cannabis, it was that I had crossed the line ( broken the 'law') He said he did not question the Laws as that was not his job but could see the harm done by criminalising the decent whilst providing vast income for the criminals....... what has changed since 1984? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Eliminate all dealers - simples.

Unless we get Superman, Batman and Robin and any others with superhuman powers involved in this I can't see how it can be done unless you mean 'eliminate' as really eliminate. :bomb:  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless we get Superman, Batman and Robin and any others with superhuman powers involved in this I can't see how it can be done unless you mean 'eliminate' as really eliminate. :bomb:  

 

As long as drugs are illegal and there is demand for these drugs (which there will always will be), then dealers will never go away. This is what the DM brigade don't seem to be able to fathom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about other people, but I experimented with drugs as a student.  With cannabis, I understand why it needs to be sold in regulated outlets.  I had a very bad reaction to it - panic attacks and acute anxiety - you need to be somewhere where people understand what can happen and know what to do.  The Dutch have got it right.

 

The popularity of legal highs is a reaction to restriction.  Some of the chemicals in these so called drugs are horrific.  When my students say they want to try drugs I say go to Amsterdam where you know what you will be getting rather than taking a gamble with what you are putting into your body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The popularity of legal highs is a reaction to restriction.

 

I'd say it was a more to do with people wanting to get high, and this being a 'legal' way to do it. I'm really not convinced that most people who take 'illegal' drugs are remotely influenced by the 'excitement of doing something illegal', they're doing it because, (and this excludes the minority trapped in damaging dependency), they enjoy the experience they're getting from their drug(s) of choice.

 

Alcohol and tobacco are both high up on Prof Nutt's chart for both dependency and physical harm (in fact only behind herion and cocaine).  Both can lead to disasterous personal outcomes, and disasterous outcomes for both those close to the person affected, and in the case of alcohol, innocent bystanders (drink driving, random violence), and yet there's very little control of supply of either - for cannabis, ecstatsy, LSD, speed, cocaine read lager, wine, bacardi, whisky, absinthe, (or any variations thereof). Many people smoke and drink (often too excess) and they aren't considered to be 'lost', to be 'artificially escaping from reality', to be 'copping out', and smoking and drinking lead to dependency at least as easily as many 'illegal' drugs', so why are they acceptable ? Why aren't pub landlords and supermarkets considered 'pushers' ?

 

So to those of you saying 'ban all drugs' and 'protect the public', maybe you should be extedning your 'war' to the two biggest (by far) drug problems this country has ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

More deaths at the hands of prohibition...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30216771

 

An example of lives being put at risk because people can't be sure of what they're taking.

It does tend to support arguments for having it properly under control and taking the supply out of criminal hands, as I have put forward right through this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say it was a more to do with people wanting to get high, and this being a 'legal' way to do it. I'm really not convinced that most people who take 'illegal' drugs are remotely influenced by the 'excitement of doing something illegal', they're doing it because, (and this excludes the minority trapped in damaging dependency), they enjoy the experience they're getting from their drug(s) of choice.

 

Alcohol and tobacco are both high up on Prof Nutt's chart for both dependency and physical harm (in fact only behind herion and cocaine).  Both can lead to disasterous personal outcomes, and disasterous outcomes for both those close to the person affected, and in the case of alcohol, innocent bystanders (drink driving, random violence), and yet there's very little control of supply of either - for cannabis, ecstatsy, LSD, speed, cocaine read lager, wine, bacardi, whisky, absinthe, (or any variations thereof). Many people smoke and drink (often too excess) and they aren't considered to be 'lost', to be 'artificially escaping from reality', to be 'copping out', and smoking and drinking lead to dependency at least as easily as many 'illegal' drugs', so why are they acceptable ? Why aren't pub landlords and supermarkets considered 'pushers' ?

 

So to those of you saying 'ban all drugs' and 'protect the public', maybe you should be extedning your 'war' to the two biggest (by far) drug problems this country has ?

Your first paragraph highlights one of my main points. 'People want a legal way to get high'. So if we legalise everything then surely demand and use would increase... We obviously don't categorically know what would happen in Britain. However, I'm just using out dependency (that you've highlighted) on tobacco and alcohol as a insight into how our society would react.

Secondly, I'm extremely dubious about his findings.

How can he possibly say tobacco causes more hard to others around the users than some of the other drugs we have mentioned.

You an smoke many cigarettes and A) not be addicted and B) not cause any problems to those around you.

Most people think cigarettes don't taste and smell nice but just enjoy the process. That's how they start off anyway and then it becomes habit and the smell will be less of an issue.

I'm sure some like the smell as taste instantly but those who I know who smoke, starts doing so when drunk.

Everyone goes out for a few fags when in the club, even me I'm sorry to say. However, I've never touched the stuff sober and I'll never smoke tobacco properly.

Alcohol is the biggest 'gateway' drug IMO. Nevermind, cannabis, it's alcohol which is the worst.

A lot smoke outside when drunk (95% of my friends class themselves as 'non-smokers' and it's mainly true but they smoke 3-5 cigarettes on a night out).

First smoked weed when drunk. Of those who pop a pill, they're drunk when they do so, same with cocaine.

However, i didn't see alcohol as that addictive. What I mean is that one drink and you'll be fine. My flatmates and I, will drink 4-5 times in a week, one week and then 1 or none the next. I don't find I 'need' a drink ever.

Yet, can you say the same about cocaine? If I snort cocaine for 5. Days straight will it have no real effect?

What about ecstacy?

Meth? Heroine?

LSD distorts all reality. The sun sparkles in a weird way, walls move, everything at the side of your vision is blurred etc. It can give you a very bad trip, so much so that it can ruin your life. I was raring about it on a forum. A user said his trip was so severe, all his fees were brought out and he know worries about them constantly.

Obviously, this person was perhaps susceptible to this problem. He probably is a rare case but does tobacco or alcohol do this? Of course not.

I find some of the professors findings baffling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It's a shame that the majority of the public buy into the war on drugs, clearly better education of the facts is needed!

 

Although interesting to note that the majority support at least decriminalising cannabis.

Edited by Nick L

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In specific relation to Lauren's fears over cannabis legalisation.

I know it's not a recent report

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181719/

I'm not saying it's irrefutable fact what this 'alternative interpretation' claims but there are 'vested interests' which would be happier shall we say if a link between mental disorders and cannabis was found.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a shame that the majority of the public buy into the war on drugs, clearly better education of the facts is needed!

Although interesting to note that the majority support at least decriminalising cannabis.

I posted it for the point you noticed in your last paragraph in particular.

It's a tough issue and I'm no closer to coming to any kind of conclusion (excluding cannabis).

I'm actually following/partaking in a debate where someone is arguing for full legalisation ie of tobacco and alcohol haha.

They are actually doing a very good job unfortunately it's too ideologically/utopian based as we simply don't have the law enforcement means to make it really work but in theory it has some justification.

Edited by SW Saltire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just a wee subsample, but interestingly, Scotland is the polar opposite of the UK in that poll.

 

In terms of support for decriminalisation or at least trial of that:

36% UK support

61% Scotland support

 

Also interesting is that older people and the better off are more likely to support that (in this poll at least). You'd think the opposite might be the case, but no...

Edited by scottish skier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a wee subsample, but interestingly, Scotland is the polar opposite of the UK in that poll.

 

In terms of support for decriminalisation or at least trial of that:

36% UK support

61% Scotland support

 

Also interesting is that older people and the better off are more likely to support that (in this poll at least). You'd think the opposite might be the case, but no...

I was about to post that about Scotland.... but I thought I'd leave it to you SS ;)

That is a bizarre one... I'm sure we've probably had this posted before but how does socio-economic status affect drug use?

I know alcohol and tobacco use is higher in lower socio-economic groups.....

Those who were born post 1960 should have more liberal views... Perhaps changing the 'expected' results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was about to post that about Scotland.... but I thought I'd leave it to you SS ;)

That is a bizarre one... I'm sure we've probably had this posted before but how does socio-economic status affect drug use?

I know alcohol and tobacco use is higher in lower socio-economic groups.....

Those who were born post 1960 should have more liberal views... Perhaps changing the 'expected' results.

 

And perhaps, as the years go by, the general consensus will be a more liberal one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And perhaps, as the years go by, the general consensus will be a more liberal one?

Yes, I think it will but I highly doubt even full decriminisisation and certainly not full legalisation.

Perhaps, legalising cannabis (eventually)

And reducing possession charges of Cannabis, Ecstacy/MDMA, Ket and Coke.

With harder drugs coming still with very large sentences particularly if caught with a good amount ie more than just personal.

Edited by SW Saltire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I think it will but I highly doubt even full decriminisisation and certainly not full legalisation.

Perhaps, legalising cannabis (eventually)

And reducing possession charges of Cannabis, Ecstacy/MDMA, Ket and Coke.

With harder drugs coming still with very large sentences particularly if caught with a good amount ie more than just personal.

 

I think with cannabis it will be gradual case of seeing how the rest of the world moves with it, just look at certain US states for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a shame that the majority of the public buy into the war on drugs, clearly better education of the facts is needed!

 

Although interesting to note that the majority support at least decriminalising cannabis.

Unfortunately decriminalising won't take away the negative impacts drugs have on peoples life's. For instance cannabis is often referred to as a recreational drug yet the link between that and schizophrenia is growing daily, this I know having spent 30 years in the NHS whilst treating many drug induced psychosis clients. There needs to be more stringent rules in place not less and to make these recreational drugs more freely available will see the number of people admitted for drug induced psychosis increase significantly. What is needed is education and eradication, the latter is nigh on impossible so we address the former.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately decriminalising won't take away the negative impacts drugs have on peoples life's. For instance cannabis is often referred to as a recreational drug yet the link between that and schizophrenia is growing daily, this I know having spent 30 years in the NHS whilst treating many drug induced psychosis clients. There needs to be more stringent rules in place not less and to make these recreational drugs more freely available will see the number of people admitted for drug induced psychosis increase significantly. What is needed is education and eradication, the latter is nigh on impossible so we address the former

I don't totally disagree with what you've said but the report I posted above doesn't buy into the claims of cannabis = mental disorders.

It seems like those with existing mental conditions/those with family history and therefore predisposed to this problem will suffer from cannabis (over)use. However, I'm not convinced on that argument in relation to 95% of the population...

If you abuse alcohol then you will suffer far worse consequences than cannabis will give you.

People always talk about 'heavy' or 'chronic' use. Firstly, It'd help if these studies were to (even roughly) identify what those terms mean. Daily use? Even daily use may not be considered 'chronic' in the set of participants that are being analysed.

I fail to see how smoking even 3 times a week (which is a lot) would have the same correlation with mental disorders as smoking daily and heavily daily.

My reasoning would be based on alcohol and tobacco. If you smoke 5/10 cigarettes a week compared with 10 a day, your risk of cancer etc would be significantly lower.

If you drink 1-2 times a week, your risk of sorosis of the liver would be far, far lower than someone drinking a litre of vodka/gin etc every day

Edited by SW Saltire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately decriminalising won't take away the negative impacts drugs have on peoples life's. For instance cannabis is often referred to as a recreational drug yet the link between that and schizophrenia is growing daily, this I know having spent 30 years in the NHS whilst treating many drug induced psychosis clients. There needs to be more stringent rules in place not less and to make these recreational drugs more freely available will see the number of people admitted for drug induced psychosis increase significantly. What is needed is education and eradication, the latter is nigh on impossible so we address the former.

 

The cannabis and mental illness link isn't proven by any mean, yes there is a risk. But I would much prefer a system where people are educated properly about drugs, have the risks explained and let them choose whether to take said substances, much like alcohol and tobacco. Alcohol and tobacco are far, far more damaging to health, would you like to see these restricted too?

 

The idea that if cannabis was legal, suddenly everyone would be a stoner is complete nonsense. Look at the evidence. Portugal has decriminalised EVERYTHING, and both drug use and drug-related illnesses have dropped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...