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Clegg Vs Farage: Europe Debate


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The media love UKIP because it gives them more to write about. If they do well at the European elections than I'm sure this will go into overdrive. I do wonder whether the general public are as obsessed about the EU as the media would have us believe. All you hear is that theres this huge support for a referendum and yet when polled the issue of the EU comes way down on the list of priorities.

 

Do people really care or is the media just forcing this narrative to justify this ridiculous hype over Farage.

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Clegg was useless and that's coming from someone who is pro Europe, he repeated the same lines over and over again.   He failed to mention that not all EU laws are bad, some are good for the UK, no me

These sound like party political broadcasts by the other parties running a smear campaign. LOL i love it when someone thinks they are the only person on the planet that has a brain and really knows wh

We are long due a referendum on EU membership, the main parties have tried to avoid any sort of vote or debate on the subject. I don't believe EU membership is the be all or end all of civilization as

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The media love UKIP because it gives them more to write about. If they do well at the European elections than I'm sure this will go into overdrive. I do wonder whether the general public are as obsessed about the EU as the media would have us believe. All you hear is that theres this huge support for a referendum and yet when polled the issue of the EU comes way down on the list of priorities. Do people really care or is the media just forcing this narrative to justify this ridiculous hype over Farage.

Is there any national newspaper that supports Farage? All seem hostile to me. Asking if you support a EU referendum and asking where the EU comes in one priorities are not quite the same are they?
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Is there any national newspaper that supports Farage? All seem hostile to me.Asking if you support a EU referendum and asking where the EU comes in one priorities are not quite the same are they?

 

The Mail essentially backs their policies as does the Express.

 

No paper would outright back them though because newspapers want to back a winner and nobody seriously believes that Ukip can beat the Tories or Labour when it matters (2015).

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The Mail essentially backs their policies as does the Express. No paper would outright back them though because newspapers want to back a winner and nobody seriously believes that Ukip can beat the Tories or Labour when it matters (2015).

The Mail does not back their policies; its editorial thinks the British public should be given a referendum on Europe, as Cameron basically promised one.The Mail would prefer a different Tory leader, that's for sure, with a more right-wing agenda.
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My fear is that by this continued sniping by the Euro sceptics is that eventually they will end up splitting the country into pros and antis no matter which side wins and in the long run this ain't going do us a lot of good.

 

My personal feeling it would have been much better to have left this all alone and continue trying to make what improvements we can along the way.

 

BB has shown how single minded and bloody minded UKIP can be in trying to get its way.

 

This debate must be now - we cannot make any 'improvements' they are a hellbent on increasing central control and taking more decisions in Brussels that we have no control over.

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The Mail does not back their policies; its editorial thinks the British public should be given a referendum on Europe, as Cameron basically promised one.The Mail would prefer a different Tory leader, that's for sure, with a more right-wing agenda.

 

One of my favourite Maggie clips is when she stands their at the despatch box and says 'no, no no !' in response to Delors advocating more centralising of power back in 1990.

 

Unfortunately the Conservatives knifed her in the face of British public opinion - a disgusting act of regicide that we have paid the price for since. The Tories are not interested in helping the wealth creators now, not interested in making the drastic cuts to public spending and welfare that need to be made, not interested in shrinking the role of the state and not interested in defending the traditional British family.

 

It is up to UKIP to carry the baton of what Lady Thatcher would have wanted for this great nation, both in terms of European policy and social and economic policies. If we win or push Cameron into a poor third next month, he will come under tremendous pressure.

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One of my favourite Maggie clips is when she stands their at the despatch box and says 'no, no no !' in response to Delors advocating more centralising of power back in 1990.

 

Unfortunately the Conservatives knifed her in the face of British public opinion - a disgusting act of regicide that we have paid the price for since. The Tories are not interested in helping the wealth creators now, not interested in making the drastic cuts to public spending and welfare that need to be made, not interested in shrinking the role of the state and not interested in defending the traditional British family.

 

It is up to UKIP to carry the baton of what Lady Thatcher would have wanted for this great nation, both in terms of European policy and social and economic policies. If we win or push Cameron into a poor third next month, he will come under tremendous pressure.

You are not on illegal substances are you Billy?

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I don't know about others but I am finding this mud slinging by the media and other parties at UKIP frustrating and disappointing. To my mind it serves only to provide a smokescreen on the real issues and questions many people like me have. Questions about Europe, Immigration, Education, the increasingly nanny state, and so the list goes on. Rather then editors and spin doctors burn the midnight oil to find ways to undermine UKIP, I want to talk about the issues.
 
Membership of the EU may not in itself be a wholly bad thing, but our terms are terrible and would need a drastic remodeling if the UK populous was to get a vote and actually decide to stay. Many people think the EU Humans right act is a bad thing, but in reality its not a bad act and its main use is in protecting us from the excesses of government. Immigration is not a bad thing, if it is controlled. We have a underclass in this country who's number is growing, we need to address it, not ignore it.
 
The nanny state has gone haywire, children are expected to go to school at 2yrs old, both parents sent to work and we have kids up to 15yrs old still wearing nappies. Did you know a child is considered at risk of harm from their parents if they were born prematurely?
 
Many many people on these Islands have simply had enough of the main parties refusal to listen to what people actually want to discuss. I would join the Monster raving looney party if it served the purpose of getting the present junta to listen to its people.
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I don't know about others but I am finding this mud slinging by the media and other parties at UKIP frustrating and disappointing. To my mind it serves only to provide a smokescreen on the real issues and questions many people like me have. Questions about Europe, Immigration, Education, the increasingly nanny state, and so the list goes on. Rather then editors and spin doctors burn the midnight oil to find ways to undermine UKIP, I want to talk about the issues.
 
Membership of the EU may not in itself be a wholly bad thing, but our terms are terrible and would need a drastic remodeling if the UK populous was to get a vote and actually decide to stay. Many people think the EU Humans right act is a bad thing, but in reality its not a bad act and its main use is in protecting us from the excesses of government. Immigration is not a bad thing, if it is controlled. We have a underclass in this country who's number is growing, we need to address it, not ignore it.
 
The nanny state has gone haywire, children are expected to go to school at 2yrs old, both parents sent to work and we have kids up to 15yrs old still wearing nappies. Did you know a child is considered at risk of harm from their parents if they were born prematurely?
 
Many many people on these Islands have simply had enough of the main parties refusal to listen to what people actually want to discuss. I would join the Monster raving looney party if it served the purpose of getting the present junta to listen to its people.

 

Why is it mud slinging? We see candidate after candidate being shown to be racists & bigots. If UKIP wants it to be about the issues - & I don't think they do - they have to clean up their party & correct the policies that attract these people in the first place.

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This debate must be now - we cannot make any 'improvements' they are a hellbent on increasing central control and taking more decisions in Brussels that we have no control over.

I wonder if some research into your thought processes may give us a clue as to why the dinosaurs died out? I thought that with time we are supposed to evolve but your ideas are designed to take us back to a bygone age which cannot be repeated. We no longer have the Empire we did - that has gone, never to be repeated - as an alternative to falling into obscurity we need to find and develop another role and in this world we are now too small on our own, so doing it with Europe is the best option.

 

As for the comparisons with the Maggie era, I doubt Nigel has the balls to match her - it's the easiest thing in the world to stand at the side lines, be critical and slag off everybody else but a different thing altogether when you are in the hot seat with everybody waiting for action to get us out of the kacki.

 

Anyway if Nigel ever does get his way, what plans are afoot to allow me and others like me  to hang onto our European citizenship? - You are banging on so much about democracy but I regard it as both my human and democratic right to hang onto mine - surely you would not intend to take that away?  - I will guard it vehemently. In my book it would be tantamount to the Germans going into Alsace and Lorraine in 1940 telling the French citizens there that they are no longer French but German.

 

This leads me onto another thing and that is during two world wars France, as did many other European countries, suffer at the hands of Germany far more than what we did inasmuch as they were occupied and in some cases massacred, one case by being burnt alive inside the village church, yet they have got over their history and working together as EU partners. If they can do it, why can't we, or do we have to remain as 'big girls' blouses' bleating all the time, standing on the side lines.

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The EU spends more on advertisement then coke, 2.4 billion, yet it is all one sided? When 30 percent of the population vote UKIP this may, that's 30 percent the other 3 party's alliance has called racist. It is ok, sticks and bones can brake their bones, 

 

After all their can call UKIP racist again 30 percent of population? Yet the media should be trying to get to the bottom of the pedo ring? that a coalition party is covering up

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I wonder if some research into your thought processes may give us a clue as to why the dinosaurs died out? I thought that with time we are supposed to evolve but your ideas are designed to take us back to a bygone age which cannot be repeated. We no longer have the Empire we did - that has gone, never to be repeated - as an alternative to falling into obscurity we need to find and develop another role and in this world we are now too small on our own, so doing it with Europe is the best option.

 

As for the comparisons with the Maggie era, I doubt Nigel has the balls to match her - it's the easiest thing in the world to stand at the side lines, be critical and slag off everybody else but a different thing altogether when you are in the hot seat with everybody waiting for action to get us out of the kacki.

 

Anyway if Nigel ever does get his way, what plans are afoot to allow me and others like me  to hang onto our European citizenship? - You are banging on so much about democracy but I regard it as both my human and democratic right to hang onto mine - surely you would not intend to take that away?  - I will guard it vehemently. In my book it would be tantamount to the Germans going into Alsace and Lorraine in 1940 telling the French citizens there that they are no longer French but German.

 

This leads me onto another thing and that is during two world wars France, as did many other European countries, suffer at the hands of Germany far more than what we did inasmuch as they were occupied and in some cases massacred, one case by being burnt alive inside the village church, yet they have got over their history and working together as EU partners. If they can do it, why can't we, or do we have to remain as 'big girls' blouses' bleating all the time, standing on the side lines.

Easy if you want to keep your EU Citizenship go to France or Germany. Simples.

I doubt very much you will miss it or even notice it's gone in reality.

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I wonder if some research into your thought processes may give us a clue as to why the dinosaurs died out? I thought that with time we are supposed to evolve but your ideas are designed to take us back to a bygone age which cannot be repeated. We no longer have the Empire we did - that has gone, never to be repeated - as an alternative to falling into obscurity we need to find and develop another role and in this world we are now too small on our own, so doing it with Europe is the best option.

 

As for the comparisons with the Maggie era, I doubt Nigel has the balls to match her - it's the easiest thing in the world to stand at the side lines, be critical and slag off everybody else but a different thing altogether when you are in the hot seat with everybody waiting for action to get us out of the kacki.

 

Anyway if Nigel ever does get his way, what plans are afoot to allow me and others like me  to hang onto our European citizenship? - You are banging on so much about democracy but I regard it as both my human and democratic right to hang onto mine - surely you would not intend to take that away?  - I will guard it vehemently. In my book it would be tantamount to the Germans going into Alsace and Lorraine in 1940 telling the French citizens there that they are no longer French but German.

 

This leads me onto another thing and that is during two world wars France, as did many other European countries, suffer at the hands of Germany far more than what we did inasmuch as they were occupied and in some cases massacred, one case by being burnt alive inside the village church, yet they have got over their history and working together as EU partners. If they can do it, why can't we, or do we have to remain as 'big girls' blouses' bleating all the time, standing on the side lines.

Mike, I'm not advocating bleating on the sidelines - it's pointless because the EU isn't going to change with France and Germany running matters. We want out.

 

Nigel would do a great job as PM - an ordinary guy who left school without going to university and made a success of himself. Not a silver spoon boy who went to public school and never had a proper job.

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The EU spends more on advertisement then coke, 2.4 billion, yet it is all one sided? When 30 percent of the population vote UKIP this may, that's 30 percent the other 3 party's alliance has called racist. It is ok, sticks and bones can brake their bones, 

 

After all their can call UKIP racist again 30 percent of population? Yet the media should be trying to get to the bottom of the pedo ring? that a coalition party is covering up

It won't be 30% of the population though.

Maybe 30% of UK adults that decide to vote in the Euro elections.

If there's a turnout of say 35% of adult voters, then UKIP wil probably get near 30% of that 35%. Not sure what it would be in millions - say 4 to 5 million votes.

Half of those will be protest votes against the 'established' parties.

When it comes to the GE people will vote on different matters like the Economy, their own well-being and the 'money in their pockets'. Europe and immigration will be some way down the list of concerns.

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Ideally Billy, the best situation would have been the UK, Germany and France playing a full active role in the EU but as it is we have side lined ourselves to an extent with a certain amount of EU paranoid tendencies and I don't expect Nigel helps very much in this respect - he hardly seems to be taking his responsibilities seriously in Strasbourg and appears to be taking the 'P' most of the time.

 

You may want 'out' but there is a sizable proportion of the British population who want to stay in - you can't just bulldoze over the rest of us to get what you want - I am also bemused about all this anti UKIP sentiment in the media - the Daily Express, for example appears to be supporting your Nige most of the time.

 

As to him making a good PM, I have my doubts - he appears to be more interested in building up a populist view of himself and UKIP and displays a laissez faire irresponsible attitude which will not go down well in many quarters. Personally I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him.  

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It won't be 30% of the population though.

Maybe 30% of UK adults that decide to vote in the Euro elections.

If there's a turnout of say 35% of adult voters, then UKIP wil probably get near 30% of that 35%. Not sure what it would be in millions - say 4 to 5 million votes.

Half of those will be protest votes against the 'established' parties.

When it comes to the GE people will vote on different matters like the Economy, their own well-being and the 'money in their pockets'. Europe and immigration will be some way down the list of concerns.

Yes but the economy is very closely related to Europe and UKIP is not a single issue party anyway. We have strong ideas about how this country can be made great again.  So much is related to immigration and Europe but this hugely impacts on our economy and what people have ‘in their pockets’ No more immigration and no more pouring money into the black hole that is the EU and we will all be better off.

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Yes but the economy is very closely related to Europe and UKIP is not a single issue party anyway. We have strong ideas about how this country can be made great again.  So much is related to immigration and Europe but this hugely impacts on our economy and what people have ‘in their pockets’ No more immigration and no more pouring money into the black hole that is the EU and we will all be better off.

Totally correct, without mass immigration there will be less competition at the lower end of jobs and wages would get back to where they were for people like me, places round here are paying the same or less for some jobs than they were in 2005 because Poles etc will do it for less.

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Yes but the economy is very closely related to Europe and UKIP is not a single issue party anyway. We have strong ideas about how this country can be made great again.  So much is related to immigration and Europe but this hugely impacts on our economy and what people have ‘in their pockets’ No more immigration and no more pouring money into the black hole that is the EU and we will all be better off.

You think we'd be better off? I've said this many times before, but immigration under the current so-called 'open floodgates' setup has brought a net fiscal benefit to the government's finances:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9172b1f4-455d-11e3-b98b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz30NL0HnVA

This is particularly significant for recent EU migrants. On the other hand, UK citizens are a net drain of £604.5 billion per year on our finances (which explains why we're running a deficit). Migrants are less likely to claim benefits or tax credits and use social housing. They come at working age without children, so the UK government don't have to pay for their education. Immigration is pretty important when it comes to keeping the economy afloat.

This is without considering the benefits brought to the poorer part of the UK by the EU's regional development policy, the benefit reaped from being a member of the world's largest trading bloc and single market and many other benefits that aren't directly related to the economy. The EU doesn't make or break the UK, and indeed it shouldn't, but the idea of leaving it and benefiting from this withdrawal is laughable.

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Yes but the economy is very closely related to Europe and UKIP is not a single issue party anyway. We have strong ideas about how this country can be made great again.  So much is related to immigration and Europe but this hugely impacts on our economy and what people have ‘in their pockets’ No more immigration and no more pouring money into the black hole that is the EU and we will all be better off.

 

Oh aye. The only Great Britain I can recall was Brunel's.

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Well we probably can't have a Great Britain again as the Scots will go probably go independent and perhaps followed by Wales in the years to come. When you consider that you'll see how little power/say we will have in any future European state. The only way you can have any sway is if you got a powerful economy like Germany. We're probably best staying relatively in the same position in the EU but with proper controlled Immigration. Proper investment into Business and research so people have to come to us for products and ideas. 

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