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Clegg Vs Farage: Europe Debate


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Lets for argument sake, the UK leaves the EU, what is the point of UKIP then?

Also we send UKIP members to the EU parliament in order for them trying to do themself out of a job. Their ultimate aim is to make themselves redundant.

But they will claim all the trimmings, all the expenses at our expense.

What has really narked me is that they voted against or at least 6 of them, against a clampdown on the illegal ivory trade.

Why? For Christ sake, if UKIP were in government they would have to cooperate on such issues unless they think elephants and other ivory producing animals should be hunted.

Sometimes you have to take a moral stand. They should have took a moral stand on this that although we don't agree with the existence of the EU parliament, this issue goes beyond that. Instead voting no, no and no for the sake of it.

Another thing that narks me about Farage is that his behaviour at times in parliament is reprehensible. Yes attack the institutions etc but not insult individuals.

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Clegg was useless and that's coming from someone who is pro Europe, he repeated the same lines over and over again.   He failed to mention that not all EU laws are bad, some are good for the UK, no me

These sound like party political broadcasts by the other parties running a smear campaign. LOL i love it when someone thinks they are the only person on the planet that has a brain and really knows wh

We are long due a referendum on EU membership, the main parties have tried to avoid any sort of vote or debate on the subject. I don't believe EU membership is the be all or end all of civilization as

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Lets for argument sake, the UK leaves the EU, what is the point of UKIP then?Also we send UKIP members to the EU parliament in order for them trying to do themself out of a job. Their ultimate aim is to make themselves redundant.But they will claim all the trimmings, all the expenses at our expense.What has really narked me is that they voted against or at least 6 of them, against a clampdown on the illegal ivory trade.Why? For Christ sake, if UKIP were in government they would have to cooperate on such issues unless they think elephants and other ivory producing animals should be hunted.Sometimes you have to take a moral stand. They should have took a moral stand on this that although we don't agree with the existence of the EU parliament, this issue goes beyond that. Instead voting no, no and no for the sake of it.Another thing that narks me about Farage is that his behaviour at times in parliament is reprehensible. Yes attack the institutions etc but not insult individuals.

You do make a very good point WH.

 

If people are going to stand for election, then at least vote sensibly (and not constantly negatively) when in the EU Parliament. They make themselves look churlish and really pathetic behaving like that tbh.

Edited by Steve C
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If this apparent

 

Lets for argument sake, the UK leaves the EU, what is the point of UKIP then?Also we send UKIP members to the EU parliament in order for them trying to do themself out of a job. Their ultimate aim is to make themselves redundant.But they will claim all the trimmings, all the expenses at our expense.What has really narked me is that they voted against or at least 6 of them, against a clampdown on the illegal ivory trade.Why? For Christ sake, if UKIP were in government they would have to cooperate on such issues unless they think elephants and other ivory producing animals should be hunted.Sometimes you have to take a moral stand. They should have took a moral stand on this that although we don't agree with the existence of the EU parliament, this issue goes beyond that. Instead voting no, no and no for the sake of it.Another thing that narks me about Farage is that his behaviour at times in parliament is reprehensible. Yes attack the institutions etc but not insult individuals.

If this apparent 31% approval in the opinion polls turns out to put even more UKIP bums on the seats of Strasbourg, far from enhancing the UK, it will damage its reputation seriously. They are not likely to have any serious interest in the purpose for which they are there but attend merely to sow discord and insult other members whilst at the same time being paid a handsome salary and expenses out of the tax payer's purse.

 

It's an absolute joke - these people appear to be quite without honour, scruples or common courtesy.

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Lets for argument sake, the UK leaves the EU, what is the point of UKIP then?Also we send UKIP members to the EU parliament in order for them trying to do themself out of a job. Their ultimate aim is to make themselves redundant.But they will claim all the trimmings, all the expenses at our expense.What has really narked me is that they voted against or at least 6 of them, against a clampdown on the illegal ivory trade.Why? For Christ sake, if UKIP were in government they would have to cooperate on such issues unless they think elephants and other ivory producing animals should be hunted.Sometimes you have to take a moral stand. They should have took a moral stand on this that although we don't agree with the existence of the EU parliament, this issue goes beyond that. Instead voting no, no and no for the sake of it.Another thing that narks me about Farage is that his behaviour at times in parliament is reprehensible. Yes attack the institutions etc but not insult individuals.

It's a rather strange position for UKIP, they are anti-EU so why would they be part of the problem. If they really wanted to they could advance their position from just the UK. I disagree totally with UKIP but as you said they're effectively trying to put themselves out of a job, I don't doubt their passion for the cause because which Westminster politician would be trying to push through something that makes them unemployed.

 

However they should vote Yes to some EU legislation if its good for the UK or is the morally right thing to do, it might shock some who overdose on the Express or Daily Mail but some good laws do come out of the EU.

 

If they did indeed vote against curbs to illegal ivory then IMO that's disgraceful and they should be ashamed. They may well get first place at the European elections but if some of these voters stopped obsessing over just immigration and saw the rest of their manifesto they may well wonder why on earth they voted for them.

 

The European elections might give them some headlines and I'm sure the MSM will go overboard with that but the fact is that they still don't have a single MP and are unlikely to have one even after the next GE.

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Lets for argument sake, the UK leaves the EU, what is the point of UKIP then?Also we send UKIP members to the EU parliament in order for them trying to do themself out of a job. Their ultimate aim is to make themselves redundant.But they will claim all the trimmings, all the expenses at our expense.What has really narked me is that they voted against or at least 6 of them, against a clampdown on the illegal ivory trade.Why? For Christ sake, if UKIP were in government they would have to cooperate on such issues unless they think elephants and other ivory producing animals should be hunted.Sometimes you have to take a moral stand. They should have took a moral stand on this that although we don't agree with the existence of the EU parliament, this issue goes beyond that. Instead voting no, no and no for the sake of it.Another thing that narks me about Farage is that his behaviour at times in parliament is reprehensible. Yes attack the institutions etc but not insult individuals.

 

The point is to make life as difficult as possible for the EU whilst Britain remains in it. We want out.

 

There is plenty of point to UKIP even if this is achieved, for me it is about the second stage of Thatcherism and making this country great again based on a flexible economy that genuinely rewards the wealth creators and stops wasting money on outdated public behemoths such as the NHS and crazy rail schemes.

 

There is still time for the Conservatives to pull themselves out of this situation; if Cameron records a really low percentage next month, the pressure will be on from not only from the fiercely Eurosceptic membership but from the much respected Thatcherite MPs who will speak out and perhaps force a leadership election which could change the whole dynamic. 

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It's a rather strange position for UKIP, they are anti-EU so why would they be part of the problem. If they really wanted to they could advance their position from just the UK. I disagree totally with UKIP but as you said they're effectively trying to put themselves out of a job, I don't doubt their passion for the cause because which Westminster politician would be trying to push through something that makes them unemployed.

 

However they should vote Yes to some EU legislation if its good for the UK or is the morally right thing to do, it might shock some who overdose on the Express or Daily Mail but some good laws do come out of the EU.

 

If they did indeed vote against curbs to illegal ivory then IMO that's disgraceful and they should be ashamed. They may well get first place at the European elections but if some of these voters stopped obsessing over just immigration and saw the rest of their manifesto they may well wonder why on earth they voted for them.

 

The European elections might give them some headlines and I'm sure the MSM will go overboard with that but the fact is that they still don't have a single MP and are unlikely to have one even after the next GE.

 

Do you back FPTP Nick ? Moaning were you when Maggie won with less than half the vote ? Probably yes. But you are happy to point out that UKIP might not win a seat whilst recording maybe 20% of votes cast. Like many, running scared and you don't even live here I notice ! 

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The point is to make life as difficult as possible for the EU whilst Britain remains in it. We want out.There is plenty of point to UKIP even if this is achieved, for me it is about the second stage of Thatcherism and making this country great again based on a flexible economy that genuinely rewards the wealth creators and stops wasting money on outdated public behemoths such as the NHS and crazy rail schemes.There is still time for the Conservatives to pull themselves out of this situation; if Cameron records a really low percentage next month, the pressure will be on from not only from the fiercely Eurosceptic membership but from the much respected Thatcherite MPs who will speak out and perhaps force a leadership election which could change the whole dynamic.

Mrs T wasnt anti-Europe;far from it. She campaigned to keep the UK in the EEC in 1975, was in favour and a driver of the Single European Act which saw a huge increase in the importance of the single market.She also championed an extension of the community itself to take in the old Eastern bloc countries.She was an advocate of the trade and economic benefits of the EU, but despised much of the Euro politics and the cushy nature of the Brussels Eurocrats. Edited by Bristle boy
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What has really narked me is that they voted against or at least 6 of them, against a clampdown on the illegal ivory trade. 

It's just dogmatism. It's almost as if voting for such legislation would force UKIP to acknowledge that the EU can be a positive influence, so they'd rather just ignore something like that. 

 

 

The point is to make life as difficult as possible for the EU whilst Britain remains in it. We want out.

 

Speak for yourself. Despite the daily tabloid tirades against the EU, many Britons don't want out, which is why UKIP are so criticised. 

Edited by Harve
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Just catching up & I have to say I'm reading some of these posts with a gaping jaw! I suggest you carry on BB. You're doing more good for those of us against UKIP than any of us ever could. What a horrible, vicious, small minded country you would wish for us to live in. So let's get it right. You're now against gays, poor people, the NHS,  Europeans (whilst forgetting, whether you like it or not, you ARE European), railways, socialists & heaven forfend elephants! Perhaps you live in the wrong country not us, perhaps you'd be happier in Putin's Russia or one of the ultra fundamentalist Christian communities in the USA.

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Because originally BB it was about free trade not about bureaucracy, protectionism, federalism and imposing rules and regulations.

If she had not been knifed by the likes of Clarke and heseltine you know as well as I do that she would have taken us out by around 1995.

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The point is to make life as difficult as possible for the EU whilst Britain remains in it. We want out.

 

That is sheer bloody arrogance - in no way are they speaking for me and their antics make me ashamed to think that they are fellow Englishmen - I don't believe there are any Scots - they are canny with a bit more sense.

 

Billy you spoke a little while ago about having fought wars - has it ever occurred to you that many of the poor sods who gave their lives may be thrilled to bits to learn that Europe eventually became united with little likelihood of these events ever happening again, well subject to UKIP keep sticking in its oar and muddying the waters?

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That is sheer bloody arrogance - in no way are they speaking for me and their antics make me ashamed to think that they are fellow Englishmen - I don't believe there are any Scots - they are canny with a bit more sense.

 

Billy you spoke a little while ago about having fought wars - has it ever occurred to you that many of the poor sods who gave their lives may be thrilled to bits to learn that Europe eventually became united with little likelihood of these events ever happening again, well subject to UKIP keep sticking in its oar and muddying the waters?

 

 

 

Hang on, Their won wars for the good of Great Britain our sovereign nation Not for a European super state

 

Europe was at peace for 40 years till mid 80ts and this European super state as we now know took over, 

 

war is still being fort today because of the EU we are fighting for independence, Look over Europe Germany has chucked them over to the waste side, The people have a voice, EU Elections will show that, The peoples war against this communist European dictatorship 

 

 

The EU break up will not lead to wars, We now have twitter and so on, Were all entwined in a friendly relationship yes, But that does not stop a nation choosing its path its destiny, Looking after its people and heritage,

Edited by lfcdude
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Hang on, Their won wars for the good of Great Britain our sovereign nation Not for a European super state

 

But that war is still being fort today because of the EU we are fighting for independence 

No, you hang on Ifcdude - at the beginning of WW1, our Tommy's  played football with the Germans in no mans land over the Christmas period in 1914 when they developed an unofficial; truce - they fraternised, exchanged food parcels and drink etc - there was no animosity between the two sides at that time. If it was left to the ordinary people there would not have been a war such as that but it was down to others building up nationalistic fervour by propaganda for their own ends which led us into this war.

 

The truth of the matter anyway is that although armies are sent to fight by their governments, they are not fighting for Queen and country, they are fighting for the mates with whom they are serving.

 

If you asked Tommy in the trenches whether he would prefer to die a hero for the national cause or prefer a united Europe at that time, I am pretty sure he would have chosen the latter.

 

Now we have UKIP, also using propaganda trying to take us back to the state we were in just over 100 years ago. Though it is interesting that you mentioned we are fighting a 'war for independence' - is that really how you view it? And strangely enough propaganda and nationalistic rhetoric can start wars - just look at what is happening in the Ukraine at the moment - look at what is happening in Syria.

 

And how did you come up with the idea that the EU is a communist dictatorship?

 

And to emphasise a previous point made, if you were born in the UK, YOU ARE ALSO A EUROPEAN.

Edited by mike Meehan
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No, you hang on Billy - at the beginning of WW1, our Tommy's  played football with the Germans in no mans land over the Christmas period in 1914 when they developed an unofficial; truce - they fraternised, exchanged food parcels and drink etc - there was no animosity between the two sides at that time. If it was left to the ordinary people there would not have been a war such as that but it was down to others building up nationalistic fervour by propaganda for their own ends which led us into this war.

 

The truth of the matter anyway is that although armies are sent to fight by their governments, they are not fighting for Queen and country, they are fighting for the mates with whom they are serving.

 

If you asked Tommy in the trenches whether he would prefer to die a hero for the national cause or prefer a united Europe at that time, I am pretty sure he would have chosen the latter.

 

Now we have UKIP, also using propaganda trying to take us back to the state we were in just over 100 years ago. Though it is interesting that you mentioned we are fighting a 'war for independence' - is that really how you view it?

 

And to emphasise a previous point put to you, if you were born in the UK, YOU ARE A EUROPEAN.

 

 

yet all of Asia is ASIAN! Yet their are very different! Same for South america and every other continent! 

 

P.S i am John i am not billy.

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Just catching up & I have to say I'm reading some of these posts with a gaping jaw! I suggest you carry on BB. You're doing more good for those of us against UKIP than any of us ever could. What a horrible, vicious, small minded country you would wish for us to live in. So let's get it right. You're now against gays, poor people, the NHS,  Europeans (whilst forgetting, whether you like it or not, you ARE European), railways, socialists & heaven forfend elephants! Perhaps you live in the wrong country not us, perhaps you'd be happier in Putin's Russia or one of the ultra fundamentalist Christian communities in the USA.

Blimmey, its a bit radical considering most us just want a chance to vote on EU membership, what lengths some want to go to stop us from having our say! 

 

I think I know why that is, and its that given the opportunity the Great British people would send federal Europe off with a great big doc martin boot up its bum. The problem is we do increasingly live in a Putin type world where we are suppose to want what we are told to want.

 

All you EU fans on here give us our vote!!!!!!!!!  

Edited by HighPressure
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Blimmey, its a bit radical considering most us just want a chance to vote on EU membership, what lengths some want to go to stop us from having our say! 

 

I think I know why that is, and its that given the opportunity the Great British people would send federal Europe off with a great big doc martin boot up its bum. The problem is we do increasingly live in a Putin type world where we are suppose to want what we are told to want.

 

All you EU fans on here give us our vote!!!!!!!!!  

 

 

This is why i struggle to get into debate with some it all comes down to You Are European!!!!  Like talking to a brick wall

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Hang on, Their won wars for the good of Great Britain our sovereign nation Not for a European super state

 

Europe was at peace for 40 years till mid 80ts and this European super state as we now know took over, 

 

war is still being fort today because of the EU we are fighting for independence, Look over Europe Germany has chucked them over to the waste side, The people have a voice, EU Elections will show that, The peoples war against this communist European dictatorship 

 

 

The EU break up will not lead to wars, We now have twitter and so on, Were all entwined in a friendly relationship yes, But that does not stop a nation choosing its path its destiny, Looking after its people and heritage,

The EU haven't dragged us into any war. For the EU's entire history, there has been no war fought within its borders, which is remarkable given what happened into the centuries beforehand, especially the first half of the 20th century, and for that alone is surely a good thing. We are a sovereign nation and we can exit with a democratic referendum instead of using brute force. How can you call the EU a 'communist dictatorship'?! Do you know what either of those words mean?

 

Europe was at peace for the 40 years post-war, yes, but its most populous country was split in two, and the continent was splintered by the Cold War. Within the EU we're more at peace than ever. 

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Blimmey, its a bit radical considering most us just want a chance to vote on EU membership, what lengths some want to go to stop us from having our say! 

 

I think I know why that is, and its that given the opportunity the Great British people would send federal Europe off with a great big doc martin boot up its bum. The problem is we do increasingly live in a Putin type world where we are suppose to want what we are told to want.  

You have a vote, vote UKIP. You & the British people have had this choice to vote for anti EU parties in various forms in the last few elections. Nobody is now, nor has, denied you that right. You want out of the EU, vote for it. I'm firmly opposed to UKIP & not mainly due to the EU issue. It's the other vile reactionary right wing policies espoused so eloquently by Billy Britain on here.

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This is why i struggle to get into debate with some it all comes down to You Are European!!!!  Like talking to a brick wall

You struggle to get into debate because you can't debate: you respond to one line of someone's post with something incoherent and ignore the rest.

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The EU haven't dragged us into any war. For the EU's entire history, there has been no war fought within its borders, which is remarkable given what happened into the centuries beforehand, especially the first half of the 20th century, and for that alone is surely a good thing. We are a sovereign nation and we can exit with a democratic referendum instead of using brute force. How can you call the EU a 'communist dictatorship'?! Do you know what either of those words mean?

 

Europe was at peace for the 40 years post-war, yes, but its most populous country was split in two, and the continent was splintered by the Cold War. Within the EU we're more at peace than ever. 

 

 

Who votes for head of EU? Who voted for Mr rompey pompey and so on? No one. Please tell me was he ever on a ballot you had to tick? 

Edited by lfcdude
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Who votes for head of EU? Who voted for Mr rompey pompey and so on? No one. Please tell me was he ever on a ballot you had to tick? 

I don't recall voting for The Queen either, or the speaker. or the head of the armed forces etc etc. I voted for an MP to do all that stuff for me,.... well apart from the Queen!

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yet all of Asia is ASIAN! Yet their are very different! Same for South america and every other continent! 

 

P.S i am John i am not billy.

John, check the original, you will see that I did correct this, apologies anyway.

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