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I think many forget that these glaciers have retreated many times in the past, hence why you often find the remains of human activity and woodland underneath the receding glaciers now. What no one can really say for sure is, "is this something more cyclical or is it the footprint of AGW".

I'd guess that it's something of both, HP. Whilst we can't do anything about the 'naturals', we can do our best to limit our own contribution; however large or small that contribution is?? :D

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The Disappearing Sea of Ice

You really are so predictable ridiculous. I started it because it's a subject that is fascinating, and important, and one that I thought may be of interest. It's got nothing to do with your "drip-feed

It would have been the case in the past, that glaciers would have grown and shrunk regionally in response to cyclical weather/climate patterns. So while glaciers in the Scandinavia and Svalbard might

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I think many forget that these glaciers have retreated many times in the past, hence why you often find the remains of human activity and woodland underneath the receding glaciers now. What no one can really say for sure is, "is this something more cyclical or is it the footprint of AGW".

 

It would have been the case in the past, that glaciers would have grown and shrunk regionally in response to cyclical weather/climate patterns. So while glaciers in the Scandinavia and Svalbard might shrink under a +ve NAO regime, the glaciers in Arctic Canada may grow under the same conditions. Then when the NAO switches to -ve, the reverse happens.

In the past, this was true of the Arctic sea ice also, one region might slowly lose ice while another gains over a decade or longer, then it would switch.

But when you find the vast majority of the worlds glaciers losing mass at once, just like the majority of the Arctic seas losing ice, there has to be a cause outside of cyclical weather or climate patterns.

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I think many forget that these glaciers have retreated many times in the past, hence why you often find the remains of human activity and woodland underneath the receding glaciers now. What no one can really say for sure is, "is this something more cyclical or is it the footprint of AGW".

 

One has to remember that the world's leading glaciologists are fully aware of the history of past glaciations, far more so than you or I, so when they make joint statements such as this they do so with all the knowledge accrued to date.

 

The great range of processes and variables affecting glaciers make the task of understanding glacier behaviour a bewildering one. There are many causes for the variability, foremost among which is Earth’s changing climate. What has happened to glaciers and ice sheets in the past century (leclercq and Oerlemans 2011, Gardner et al, 2013) probably presages greater changes as greenhouse gases accumulate in the atmosphere and the world’s land ice is driven to more rapid responses to “catch up†with accrued climate change (Schneeberger 2003). The21st century will likely see the inexorable retreat of almost all glaciers, often at faster rates than those of the 20th century. Satellite monitoring-supported by field based observations and geophysical studies of glacier interiors and substrates and quantative analysis of changes affecting glaciers and ice sheets-will grow in importance as more communities and infrastructure are impacted.

 

To refute this requires, IMO, some pretty convincing scientific argument which as yet has failed to materialize.

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Disintegration of Pramecou Glacier, France

 

 

Pramecou Glacier is on the Dome de Pramecou above the Grande Motte Glacier, which is a key portion of the Tignes Ski area in France. The Grande Motte area is open for summer skiing this year from June 27th to Aug. 9th. The glaciated landscape in this area is changing dramatically, Gardent and Deline, (2011) noted a 33% loss in glacier area since the 1960’s. The Tignes Ski area has responded by adding snowmakers for the lower portion of Grande Motte Glacier. Here we examine the impact on Pramecou Glacier and Grande Motte Glacier.

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A glacier grows and melts away in a decade, Big Four Glacier and Ice Caves.

 

 

The Big Four ice caves area popular hiking destination 90 minutes northeast of Seattle in the North Cascades.  This ice mass is currently the lowest elevation glacier in the lower 48 states. It is fed by tremendous avalanching from higher on Big Four Mountain.  During the winter the snow piles up on the avalanche fan.  In the summer the waterfall from above carves tunnels under the snow-ice mass.  At some point in June or July the tunnels are enlarged enough to allow people, but also warm air to enter.  This leads to further tunnel expansion.  In warm summers the tunnels get large enough by late summer that collapses of the roof occur.  Unfortunately this year the caves are already in late summer form and an expected collapse tragically led to the 1 person killed and five injured this week.  Here we examine the formation and now demise of this odd glacier in the last decade. There are no pictures of the ice caves in this post, as it is not a place to enter this year.

 

http://blogs.agu.org/fromaglaciersperspective/2015/07/08/big-four-glacier-ice-caves-a-short-future/

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Glacial lakes in Third Pole region impacted by climate change

 

Chinese scientists have found that glacial lakes in the Third Pole region of the Earth are experiencing an increase in size due to global warming. The study was the first comprehensive study of the region to be conducted for 1990, 2000, and 2010.

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If we had an olympic event for glaciers, which is retreating fastest, Hindle Glacier would represent South Georgia.

 

Hindle Glacier, Accelerating Retreat, South Georgia

 

South Georgia sits amidst the furious if not screaming fifties latitude belt, the circum Antarctic westerlies. This region is famous for the endless march of storms parading around Antarctica. The island is south of the Antarctic Convergence, preventing any truly warm season from persisting. The cool maritime climate leads to numerous glaciers covering a majority of the island and quite low equilibrium line altitudes.  Ross-Hindle Glacier enters Royal Bay on the east coast of South Georgia Island has now separated into the Ross and Hindle Glaciers. Hindle Glacier could do well  in a new international Olympic event, “Fastest Retreating Glacier†The tidewater glaciers of South Georgia in general maintained fairly advanced positions unitl 1980. Gordon et al., (2008) observed that larger tidewater and sea-calving valley and outlet glaciers generally remained in relatively advanced positions until the 1980s. For Ross-Hindle the retreat was minimal from 1960 to 1989. The change in glacier termini position have been documented by Alison Cook at British Antarctic Survey in a BAS retreat map.  By 2008 the glaciers had separated. Here we examine Landsat imagery from 1989 to 2015 to identify recent change.

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Historically unprecedented global glacier decline in the early 21st century

 

Abstract:

Observations show that glaciers around the world are in retreat and losing mass. Internationally coordinated for over a century, glacier monitoring activities provide an unprecedented dataset of glacier observations from ground, air and space. Glacier studies generally select specific parts of these datasets to obtain optimal assessments of the mass-balance data relating to the impact that glaciers exercise on global sea-level fluctuations or on regional runoff. In this study we provide an overview and analysis of the main observational datasets compiled by the World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS). The dataset on glacier front variations (~42 000 since 1600) delivers clear evidence that centennial glacier retreat is a global phenomenon. Intermittent readvance periods at regional and decadal scale are normally restricted to a subsample of glaciers and have not come close to achieving the maximum positions of the Little Ice Age (or Holocene). Glaciological and geodetic observations (~5200 since 1850) show that the rates of early 21st-century mass loss are without precedent on a global scale, at least for the time period observed and probably also for recorded history, as indicated also in reconstructions from written and illustrated documents. This strong imbalance implies that glaciers in many regions will very likely suffer further ice loss, even if climate remains stable.

 

Open Access

 

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/igsoc/jog/pre-prints/content-ings_jog_15j017

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Substantial glacier mass loss in the Tien Shan over the past 50 years

 

Populations in Central Asia are heavily dependent on snow and glacier melt for their water supplies. Changes to the glaciers in the main mountain range in this region, the Tien Shan, have been reported over the past decade. However, reconstructions over longer, multi-decadal timescales and the mechanisms underlying these variations—both required for reliable future projections—are not well constrained. Here we use three ensembles of independent approaches based on satellite gravimetry, laser altimetry, and glaciological modelling to estimate the total glacier mass change in the Tien Shan. Results from the three approaches agree well, and allow us to reconstruct a consistent time series of annual mass changes for the past 50 years at the resolution of individual glaciers. We detect marked spatial and temporal variability in mass changes. We estimate the overall decrease in total glacier area and mass from 1961 to 2012 to be 18 ± 6% and 27 ± 15%, respectively. These values correspond to a total area loss of 2,960 ± 1,030 km2, and an average glacier mass-change rate of −5.4 ± 2.8 Gt yr−1. We suggest that the decline is driven primarily by summer melt and, possibly, linked to the combined effects of general climatic warming and circulation variability over the north Atlantic and north Pacific.

 

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ngeo2513.html

 

Press release

 

http://phys.org/news/2015-08-substantial-glacier-ice-loss-central.html

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Disastrous Year for North Cascade Glacier Mass Balance (Snow/Ice Economy)

 

 

A disastrous year is unfolding in 2015 for North Cascade glaciers, if normal melt conditions continue the range will lose 5-7% of its entire volume in one year! For the 32nd consecutive year we were in the North Cascade Range, of Washington to observe the mass balance of glaciers across the entire mountain range. The melt season is not over, but already the mass loss is greater than any other year, with six weeks of melting left. An alpine glaciers income is the snow that accumulates, and to be have an equilibrium balance sheet, for the year, alpine glaciers typically need 50-65% snowcovered surfaces at the end of the melt season.  Below the accumulation zone, net assets are lost via ablation.

Edited by knocker
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Mount Rainier debris flows, 13th August 2015

 

The Mount Rainier National Park Facebook page has a nice report about a series of debris flows that occurred on the flanks of the volcano, in Washington State, USA on 13th August 2015 (and there is a good press release too).  These debris flows originated from the South Tahoma Glacier and rumbled down Tahoma Creek, as this Mount Rainier National Park map shows:

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Barskoon Mountain Glacier Widespread Retreat, Tien Shan Range, Kyrgyzstan

 

Farinotti et al. (2015) used three approaches to assess glacier change in the Tien Shan from 1961 to 2012.  The results converge on an overall loss of glacier area of 19-27%,a spatial extent of 2960 square kilometers of glacier area.  They further observe that it is primarily summer melting that has driven the change.  Here we examine the change of several glaciers in a small sub-range in the Barskoon Mountain area of Kyrgyzstan using Landsat images from 1990-2013.. The A364 road extends up the Barskoon valley and was part of the silk road. It is now more widely used as the main road to the Kumtor Gold Mine (Colgan, 2015).

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Mount Caubvick Glacier Retreat, Labrador

 

Mount Caubvick is in the Torngat Mountains of Labrador 35 km inland of the Atlantic Ocean and south of Nachvak Fjord. Way et al (2014) identified 105 active glaciers that had flow indicators in these mountains.  The mean elevation of these glaciers is quite low at 776 meters above sea level. The radiational shading and higher accumulation from protected cirque locations and proximity to the ocean are key to the low elevations. The elevation of the glaciers around Mount Caubvick is higher. Here we use Landsat images from 1992, 1997 and 2015 to identify response to climate change. The annual layers preserved in the glacier ice are evident in glacier B,C and E.

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The latest pictures this morning portraits the sorry state of the highest glacier in the Tirol Region. The summer heat has really added to the woe to try and protect the glacier exposed to the sun. For the past decade work has being going on with white fleece coverings rolled over the ice to help protect the glaciers existence, only to delay the on going yearly retreat. All looks very messy and sad on this picture.

 

post-3489-0-46011900-1441189895_thumb.jp

 

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This might sound like a really daft idea but it might just work .. why not use a double insulating cover packed with ice, charge it at the mains to maintain the freeze blanket.

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The Disappearing Sea of Ice

Quite sobering viewing that the glaciers must have taken a huge hit this Summer thankfully the heatwave conditions which have gripped Central Europe have abated.

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It's OK to be undecided about the cause(s) of climate change - this my opinion - is it a fair one?

 

Keep an open mind is my attitude.

Yes perfectly fine I do not think CO2 link is a strong link I think there is something else at play.

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Yes perfectly fine I do not think CO2 link is a strong link I think there is something else at play.

Of course there 'is something else at play', Daniel; global climate has changed since time immemorial. But that extremely obvious, perhaps banal, observation has nothing whatsoever to do with anthropogenic CO2...

 

PS: All subsequent posts, in the same unsubstantiated vain as 4's, will be disappeared...

Edited by Ed Stone
Sorry Daniel...
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I'm going to take this moment to remind folks of the guidelines for this area...

 

https://forum.netweather.tv/topic/83699-new-climate-change-science-based-discussions/

 

Specifically:

 

 

But in order to move any discussion forward, an open mind is needed - if your attitude is that regardless of any science or evidence, you have a belief and that's the only direction you're looking in, then it's not going to work.

 

If your view is based off your own opinions and no science to back it up, it does not belong here.

Edited by Nick L
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‘There are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.’

 

I'll leave it at that.

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