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March Blizzard

Religion - is it actively under attack?

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I won't accept bigots, and think it's wrong to be like that - the thing about these sorts of people is that they choose to be like that. I'm sure bigots wouldn't accept my view and may not even recognise themselves as such, but I suppose that's up to them.  But there lies the rub - why should people accept your views on homosexuality, they're based on prejudice and ignorance, they're directed at a group of people who didn't choose to be who they are and rightly most people don't share your type of 'opinion' any longer.  It's not other people's problem that they don't like what you have to say, it's yours. You are the person who claims to be religious, yet will happily pedal hateful bile on here without a care or thought for the people reading it who may be more than a little upset to see someone sharing such opinions - surely you can see the hypocrisy in that - where in the bible does it suggest being so selfish and ignorant? That's the problem with people like you, it's all about you - your religion, your opinion, your apparent right to express whatever you please without thought or consideration for anyone or anything, merrily picking and choosing the elements of the bible you want to take notice of and ignoring the rest, it's ridiculous.  So before you reply, before you come back to pedal more thinly veiled bigotry, go away and look in the mirror then ask yourself at what point you allowed yourself to form opinions based on ignorance and prejudice, as just like everyone else you were born without those traits and have obviously picked them up somewhere along the way. You are right in one respect though, it's not god, not the bible, and not religion forcing you to have those views, the only person to blame for your prejudices is you.

Have been away for the day but can I just say, this perfectly explains my view.

 

People have had religion forced upon them for many years and the minute any criticism of this is made, it is deemed that religion as a whole is 'under attack'. Faith is a personal belief and should be made by oneself, however, many people are baptised at a young age and are brought up in a religious environment with not much choice in the matter (as I was). Some of the principles of religion are great - the idea of morality being one of those, but to be honest, a lot of people seem to choose what they like in the bible and forget about anything that would affect them negatively. Lots of religions have been changed drastically over the years, to adapt to new ways of life, and to be honest I just don't see how people can still believe that there is one 'right' religion. The way I see it, it's like someone changing their alibi constantly that's being investigated for a crime. It makes them seem more dubious, just as the malleability of religion makes it, in my opinion, less reliable. 

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Posted · Hidden by Paul, February 15, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by Paul, February 15, 2014 - No reason given

its ironic..religion is full of closet homo's, yet the same neo-fascist religious bozo's preach gay hate for its followers to soak up.

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A recurring argument in this thread is that religion is "forced" upon others - I'd be genuinely interested to know how prevalent this actually is in the UK/Western world.

For me, personally, I may occasionally have to speak to a Jehovah's Witness for a few minutes when they knock at my front door - the horror!

Other than that? - Nope, can't think of anything else.

Edited by March Blizzard

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To quote RD again.

 

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.â€

So it's not something you read a lot of then.Posted Image

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A recurring argument in this thread is that religion is "forced" upon others - I'd be genuinely interested to know how prevalent this actually is in the UK/Western world.For me, personally, I may occasionally have to speak to a Jehovah's Witness for a few minutes when they knock at my front door - the horror!Other than that? - Nope, can't think of anything else.

 

How about children being brainwashed into religious or intolerant views by their parents?

 

Despite not believing in God or any kind of religion, if I had kids I would NEVER attempt to make them think the same. I would let them decide for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of religious parents feel they have to feed the same questionable views to their children, which IMO is inherently wrong.

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How about children being brainwashed into religious or intolerant views by their parents? Despite not believing in God or any kind of religion, if I had kids I would NEVER attempt to make them think the same. I would let them decide for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of religious parents feel they have to feed the same questionable views to their children, which IMO is inherently wrong.

But you could argue the same for political and emotional viewing of the world both of which can be equally as destructive. All children are hard wired by their surroundings Nick, so what is one persons right way of viewing the world is another's opposite.

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How about children being brainwashed into religious or intolerant views by their parents?Despite not believing in God or any kind of religion, if I had kids I would NEVER attempt to make them think the same. I would let them decide for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of religious parents feel they have to feed the same questionable views to their children, which IMO is inherently wrong.

I'd really like to answer you, Nick, but I'm in work. I'll get back to you later if I can. Edited by March Blizzard

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How about children being brainwashed into religious or intolerant views by their parents?

 

Despite not believing in God or any kind of religion, if I had kids I would NEVER attempt to make them think the same. I would let them decide for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of religious parents feel they have to feed the same questionable views to their children, which IMO is inherently wrong.

 

The last section of Richard Dawkin's book, A Devil's Chaplain, he called, A Prayer For My Daughter.

 

This last section, its title borrowed from W. B. Yeats, has a single item: an open letter to my daughter, written when she was ten. For most of her childhood, I unhappily saw her only for short periods at a time, and it was not easy to talk about the important things of life. I had always been scrupulously careful to avoid the smallest suggestion of infant indoctrination, which I think is ultimately responsible for much of the evil in the world. Others, less close to her, showed no such scruples, which upset me, as I very much wanted her, as I want all children, to make up her own mind freely when she became old enough to do so. I would encourage her to think, without telling her what to think. When she reached the age of ten, I thought about writing her a long letter. But to send it out of the blue seemed oddly formal and forbidding.

 

Then an opportunity fortuitously arose. My literary agent John Brockman, with his wife and partner Katinka Matson, conceived the idea of editing a book of essays as a rite-of-passage gift for their son Max. They invited clients and friends to contribute essays of advice or inspiration for a young person starting life. The invitation spurred me into writing, as an open letter, the advice to my daughter which I had previously been shy to give. The book itself, How Things Are, changed its mission halfway through its compilation. It remained dedicated to Max, but the subtitle became A Science Tool-kit for the Mind and later contributors were not asked to write specifically for a young person.

 

Eight years down the road, the legal onset of Juliet's adulthood happened to fall during the preparation of this collection, and the book is dedicated to her as an eighteenth birthday present, with a father's love.

 

The letter can be found here. I think it relevant.

 

http://insidecredulity.blogspot.co.uk/2008/04/richard-dawkins-open-letter-to-his.html

Edited by knocker

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But you could argue the same for political and emotional viewing of the world both of which can be equally as destructive. All children are hard wired by their surroundings Nick, so what is one persons right way of viewing the world is another's opposite.

 

Very unhealthy for a child to be cocooned by religious teachings from parents, as when child enters adulthood as an independent much adjustment needs to be made for some... as it quickly becomes apparent that humanity is more complex and diverse ( and more beautiful  ) than the narrow based jargon that was taught

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Very unhealthy for a child to be cocooned by religious teachings from parents, as when child enters adulthood as an independent much adjustment needs to be made for some... as it quickly becomes apparent that humanity is more complex and diverse ( and more beautiful  ) than the narrow based jargon that was taught

But one could argue the very same for politics, and their view on life in general Styx, up you have to remember we are all different and certainly don't think alike. One mans beliefs is another mans anger, humanity has had these sort of arguments since the beginning of time, whether that is through religion, politics, or fear, these arguments will always continue even without religion.

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I feel that anything, anyone that tries to remove free thinking and imposes on a persons free will is wrong, what ever the cause, method or reason.

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How about children being brainwashed into religious or intolerant views by their parents?

 

Despite not believing in God or any kind of religion, if I had kids I would NEVER attempt to make them think the same. I would let them decide for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of religious parents feel they have to feed the same questionable views to their children, which IMO is inherently wrong.

However Nick, children must be given unbiased information on which to base a decision, otherwise we would end up with a situation akin to a UKIP referendum to leave the EU.

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I feel that anything, anyone that tries to remove free thinking and imposes on a persons free will is wrong, what ever the cause, method or reason.

To a certain extent I agree with that Jax, but how many parents influence their children's future be it through political, religious, or social views. It's all part of human nature and it's when we become adults that we can truly view the world with an open mind  and make decisions by ourselves.

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'Free will' is an illusion. Posted Image

if you say so

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Nick, how do you know it is inherently wrong? I'm sure there are millions of kids the world over who may have been up bought up with religion at the forefront - perhaps in countries where religion and faith are much entwined in daily life - more importantly, becoming perfectly ordinary citizens in later life.Whether they continue with their religious quest and commitments is questionable, needless to say it again boils down to personal choice. You really shouldn't feel threatened by religion as a whole or maybe by those who decide to go down this route, and the vast majority do not enforce their views on others or indeed non-believers.

 

I don't understand your argument against me. I know what you're talking about and I agree, but I don't see how that refutes my point..

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My point being is that for many many kids it has bought zero harm, so how is it that some parents or guardians who choose to bring up their offspring in this way, do so successfully.Yes it maybe your choice entirely which many respect - but how is it inherently wrong to do so otherwise?

 

Something being successful doesn't necessarily make it right though does it? For instance some people have successfully got away with murder, not sure you'd want to be teaching your children to do that though!

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Something being successful doesn't necessarily make it right though does it? For instance some people have successfully got away with murder, not sure you'd want to be teaching your children to do that though!

your missing the point though Paul and equating holding religious beliefs that differ than yours to someone who condones murder. It's been a really enlightening social study on people's behaviour and tolerance towards deeply held religious beliefs, so,e feel threat end others outraged and some view all things in life with common sense, the latter appears rather sparse here though.

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While i support gay marriage myself i do feel many of you are being far too harsh on SI. He should be allowed to hold views which do not conform to current social norms if he so wishes so long as he is not taking it to the level of either verbally or physically attacking somebody. That does not make him a bigot per say.

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It seems that when i opened on the thread on page 4 (my last read) that the situation has since resolved.

 

...

 

Back on the subject at hand, i view indoctrination of children as one of the worst things that we do to them. You have a law saying you can't tap a child for being naughty, but your able to describe in detail how they will burn in hell. 

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While i support gay marriage myself i do feel many of you are being far too harsh on SI. He should be allowed to hold views which do not conform to current social norms if he so wishes so long as he is not taking it to the level of either verbally or physically attacking somebody. That does not make him a bigot per say.

 

If people want to be close-minded enough to personally believe gay people are wrong, then I have to accept that. But teaching that same intolerance to your children is unacceptable!

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Problems we sometimes face nowadays is that having a different opinion can be classed as a potential thought crime?What will this ultimately achieve? Probably (sadly) in some cases the opposite to what it set out to do.

 

Spot on.

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Good grief I think we agree for once...Problems we sometimes face nowadays is that having a different opinion can be classed as a potential thought crime?What will this ultimately achieve? Probably (sadly) in some cases the opposite to what it set out to do.

 

I just generally try not to associate with people who dislike others for things that they cannot help (colour of their skin, sexuality etc.) as they tend to be thoroughly unpleasant. Much easier!

Edited by Nick L

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