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Religion - is it actively under attack?

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In increasingly secular societies can religion coexist?

 

Does it need to adapt to survive?

 

Is religion inherently incompatible with the direction society is going?

 

Is it in danger of dying out?

 

...are it's followers becoming increasingly stigmatised, scapegoated, persecuted and discriminated against?

 

Discuss...

 

 

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Perhaps the question should be, 'Are the rest of us under attack from Religion?' Many years ago I met a young priest at a funeral, or rather the wake afterwards - he said, 'Let God be your religion, not religion your God' - these words have stayed with me and when you think about it religion, particularly when it is religion being used for political ends has caused so much damage in the world, it causes deaths and it separates people.

 

Currently the extreme fanatics from the Moslem world are causing a great many problems but they are not the only ones because there are fundamentalists on the Christian side, and no doubt some amongst the Jews as well with probably a fair sprinkling amongst the other main religions of the world, with factions within factions, one man hating another sufficiently to kill him just because he comes from a different branch of what should really be the same faith.

 

If we are all to get with one another, we do not need these schisms.

 

With my own particular circumstances I was baptised a Catholic, went to live with my grandparents who introduced me into the Weslyan tradition whilst attending a C of E school, so was never totally indoctrinated in just one of them and now I wonder what it is all about, in essence each of them had the same broad message.

 

People are stigmatised through many things, not just religion, so what we really need to develop is tolerance and understanding - in my view that is the best way people can live.

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I could perhaps argue that the very first sentence of your response indirectly proves my point, Mike?

Please explain exactly what you mean, or is it that you are talking about religion per se, whilst I was talking about politicised religion?

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The Christian religion is certainly under attack in this country whoever if you raise issues against other religions you are instantly branded a racist, although religion has nothing to do with race marched to the office and disciplined.

However people should be able to choose to have a religion or not. They should all respect other beliefs as well.

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In increasingly secular societies can religion coexist?

 

Interesting that you mention secular societies. I mention it because splits within religion sometimes doesn't allow this. Within Islam Shiite and Sunnis for example and to a lesser extent within the CoE and women bishops. It also rather depends whether the cultural aspect of religions impinges on the secular laws of an individual country.

 

One thing I will predict is that this thread will end badly.

Edited by knocker

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atheists are the minority 

 

The Sovereign holds the title 'Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England'.

 

Archbishops and bishops are appointed by The Queen on the advice of the Prime Minister, who considers the names selected by a Church Commission. They take an oath of allegiance to The Queen on appointment and may not resign without Royal authority.

The connection between Church and State is also symbolised by the fact that the 'Lords Spiritual' (consisting of the Archbishops of Canterbury and York and 24 diocesan bishops) sit in the House of Lords. Parish priests also take an oath of allegiance to The Queen. 

The General Synod (including the bishops, elected representatives from the clergy and the laity) is the supreme authority of the Church of England. The Queen opens the Synod after the elections in the dioceses every five years.Since 1919, the Synod (formerly called the Church Assembly) has had the power to pass Measures on any matter concerning the Church of England.

 

Following acceptance of the Measures by both Houses of Parliament (which cannot amend them), they are submitted for Royal Assent and become law.

Edited by knocker

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I think everyone is entitled to have their own views upheld and respected, whatever they are. I do feel a sense of smugness by some who view religion as mythical and inpractical by today's standards, which certainly creates unneeded tension and conflict. Remember we don't have to approve of things and certain aspects of today's society, but surely tolerance and respect is the way forward.

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One thing I will predict is that this thread will end badly.

 

As do most religious conflicts.

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In increasingly secular societies can religion coexist?

 

Does it need to adapt to survive?

 

Is religion inherently incompatible with the direction society is going?

 

Is it in danger of dying out?

 

...are it's followers becoming increasingly stigmatised, scapegoated, persecuted and discriminated against?

 

Discuss...

 

Yes, but it's declining in power and influence.

 

Yes, but it questionable whether it can sufficiently given that the Holy books were written millenia ago and are out of step with modern values.

 

At it's extreme.

 

Not entirely but severely diminished.

 

No, western society is fairly accepting of religion.

 

.....

 

Interestingly i once saw a poll of over 2000 atheists which suggested that for a massive majority (60+%) their second choice would be Buddhism.

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atheists are the minority 

 

For now but it increased by 10% between 2001 and 2011.

 

Britain is casting off the shackles of religion.

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In increasingly secular societies can religion coexist?

 

Does it need to adapt to survive?

 

Is religion inherently incompatible with the direction society is going?

 

Is it in danger of dying out?

 

...are it's followers becoming increasingly stigmatised, scapegoated, persecuted and discriminated against?

 

Discuss...

 

I think they can co-exist, as long as religious institution don't try to operate outside the law or impose themselves on the functioning of society.

 

Everything must adapt to survive, but for something as dogmatic as religion, that will be more challenging and will likely lead to its demise.

 

Spirituality, private practise and belief may still be compatible. But to believe in creationism, intelligent design, the holding of ancient bigoted views (the bible can justify most good and evil acts) with the only justification being religious texts, well, that isn't good enough anymore. We now have the education and hopefully the intelligence to think for ourselves. Having your life and views dictated by an ancient book is becoming increasingly unjustifiable.

 

I think some aspects will live on, such as the practise of meditation, but there will always be people who feel the need to believe in order to give them comfort while having a difficult time or life, but I think it may eventually become an extreme minority.

 

I don't see the persecution of religious people (apart from by other religions!), nor discrimination against them, are there example out there? As for stigmatised, maybe in a way, but it's mainly a stigma attached to having bigoted (homophobic) or irrational (creationist) beliefs with the religious texts being the only justification.

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I think they can co-exist, as long as religious institution don't try to operate outside the law or impose themselves on the functioning of society.

 

Everything must adapt to survive, but for something as dogmatic as religion, that will be more challenging and will likely lead to its demise.

 

Spirituality, private practise and belief may still be compatible. But to believe in creationism, intelligent design, the holding of ancient bigoted views (the bible can justify most good and evil acts) with the only justification being religious texts, well, that isn't good enough anymore. We now have the education and hopefully the intelligence to think for ourselves. Having your life and views dictated by an ancient book is becoming increasingly unjustifiable.

 

I think some aspects will live on, such as the practise of meditation, but there will always be people who feel the need to believe in order to give them comfort while having a difficult time or life, but I think it may eventually become an extreme minority.

 

I don't see the persecution of religious people (apart from by other religions!), nor discrimination against them, are there example out there? As for stigmatised, maybe in a way, but it's mainly a stigma attached to having bigoted (homophobic) or irrational (creationist) beliefs with the religious texts being the only justification.

But you have to have faith BFTV and if you have faith then those religious texts are what you follow, rightly or wrongly depending if you have faith. I oppose in homosexuality being accepted by means of marriage and civil partnerships, but that's my view and I still wouldn't openly direct my opinion on others as I neither believe in telling people what to do, say, or think.

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I think everyone is entitled to have their own views upheld and respected, whatever they are. I do feel a sense of smugness by some who view religion as mythical and inpractical by today's standards, which certainly creates unneeded tension and conflict. Remember we don't have to approve of things and certain aspects of today's society, but surely tolerance and respect is the way forward.

 

I noticed a mark lack of that in the gay marriage thread and I have just chosen my words with care.

But you have to have faith BFTV and if you have faith then those religious texts are what you follow, rightly or wrongly depending if you have faith. I oppose in homosexuality being accepted by means of marriage and civil partnerships, but that's my view and I still wouldn't openly direct my opinion on others as I neither believe in telling people what to do, say, or think.

 

But the church does. And in the case of the catholic church it has made a huge difference to peoples lives.

Edited by knocker

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I don't think it's under attack, but it's being treated with far more scepticism as years go by and rightly so. My personal opinion is that religion should be a completely personal thing. I dislike all forms of religion, but have no problem people believing whatever story they want. However, religion must only be a personal thing and should never be used to influence the lives of others. It does irritate me that bishops are automatically given seats in the House of Lords, that doesn't sit right with me. Although the House of Lords in general doesn't either.

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For now but it increased by 10% between 2001 and 2011.

 

Britain is casting off the shackles of religion.

 

I'm not sure I would go as far as that. And it also depends how you define christian.

 

 

The Christian population of England and Wales has fallen by four million to 33.2 million in the past decade, the 2011 census reveals.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26153889

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But you have to have faith BFTV and if you have faith then those religious texts are what you follow, rightly or wrongly depending if you have faith. I oppose in homosexuality being accepted by means of marriage and civil partnerships, but that's my view and I still wouldn't openly direct my opinion on others as I neither believe in telling people what to do, say, or think.

 

What is faith then? What about those with faith in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Mormonism, Scientology, etc. To me, faith comes across as blind belief that requires dismissal of much rational thought, countering evidence and viewpoints.

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Quite clearly -  there are many who rally behind or identify with a religious brand with the sole purpose to defend particular insecurities and prejudisms. Ask those same people what that religion means to them personally in a broader sense, they are stumped for words.  

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What is faith then? What about those with faith in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Mormonism, Scientology, etc. To me, faith comes across as blind belief that requires dismissal of much rational thought, countering evidence and viewpoints.

 

I actually exempt Buddhism from that type of thought. With religions like Christianity and Islam your to worship a deity based on the teachings of a book with selectively chosen teachings. With Buddhism (and possibly others) you worship a set of beliefs and the Dali Lama is simply a symbol of those

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I noticed a mark lack of that in the gay marriage thread and I have just chosen my words with care. But the church does. And in the case of the catholic church it has made a huge difference to peoples lives.

I agree Churches have, but I fail too see how's it's made a huge difference in their life as most of them aren't religious to start with.

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What is faith then? What about those with faith in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Mormonism, Scientology, etc. To me, faith comes across as blind belief that requires dismissal of much rational thought, countering evidence and viewpoints.

Faith is believing that God created the heavens and earth, not 7000 years ago has quoted by many. Science can only takes us so far with explainations on how and why we are here, it's not blind belief as you so eloquently put it. As for irrational viewpoints on homosexuality, that's a matter of opinion and belief in what's right and wrong, again this is down to personal beliefs and I for one don't expect others to think alike and nor would I enforce my views others. Can the same be said for those who oppose religion though?

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Christianity has been under attack since Christ was crucified, as ever the answer to all the questions on here can be found in the Bible, I am minded of this passage by Peter with regards the increased persecution that Christians suffer...

 

"Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.†For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

 

There is hope, however, and I would urge all on here who have no belief in God to at least give it a chance and remember Jesus's words..

 

 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

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Christianity has been under attack since Christ was crucified, as ever the answer to all the questions on here can be found in the Bible, I am minded of this passage by Peter with regards the increased persecution that Christians suffer...

 

"Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.†For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

 

There is hope, however, and I would urge all on here who have no belief in God to at least give it a chance and remember Jesus's words..

 

 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

 

They are the words of a book, written long after Jesus passed, edited and translated many times through history. 

 

Saying that, I quite like this quote

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

 

 

Also, what happens if you arrive at the pearly gates, and St Peter says you cannot enter? When you ask why, he replies "because you were given the gift of intelligence, logic, reasoning and love, but  you threw it all away and decided to simply have faith in an ancient, distorted and immoral man-made book"

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