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South West/Central Southern England Regional Weather Discussion 05/02/14 16z -------------->


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So much going on, so little time to rectify the damage from the previous event before the next one turns up. Thanks for all the updates guys, much appreciated. Play nicely all and whilst we don't always see eye to eye on what's deemed extreme or not, I would say the long haul of this Winter has been, know matter which way you paint it.

Edited by gottolovethisweather
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Might be worth tuning into points west tonight for the latest from our resident expert;

"W COUNTRY Rain, snow & another (nasty-looking) storm... all in @bbcpointswest weather tonight, 6:30pm"

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So much going on, so little time to rectify the damage from the previous event before the next one turns up. Thanks for all the updates guys, much appreciated. Play nicely all and whilst we don't always see eye to eye on what's deemed extreme or not, I would say the long haul of this Winter has been, know matter which way you paint it. in the snow

 

 

Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by Cyclonic
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Yup, we haven't had any of the high winds that you guys further West have been experiencing (top gust 43.7mph on Saturday) but the number of trees down is out of all proportion - rootballs just lifted clear of the soil.

 

BTW, the EA seems to have missed a trick (this is from the BBC News website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26114645) :

 

Jeanette, Hampshire, texts: I am wondering why no-one is looking into the Thames barrier, which by being closed so much may be causing the water to back up and flood on areas of less importance than London.

 

Wonder if she's the same bright spark who suggested turning off the wind farms.... Posted Image

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Posted ImagePosted Image

 

Get back on that moon of yours. Posted Image I'd like to think we could all see a few inches of settled snow in the coming days but I'm pretty sure it will be transient at best for us lowlanders and as for the Isle of Wight. Posted Image  Mulls and the Beast of Dartmoor should be two happy bunnies though methinks. Posted Image

Edited by gottolovethisweather
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Jeanette, Hampshire, texts: I am wondering why no-one is looking into the Thames barrier, which by being closed so much may be causing the water to back up and flood on areas of less importance than London.

 

 

 

 

An honest question though from me, how does it work, yes it's tidal but can it back up as she suggests or am I being a dunce? EDIT: Yep, I spotted it now, the less importance comment is rather absurd.

Edited by gottolovethisweather
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An honest question though from me, how does it work, yes it's tidal but can it back up as she suggests or am I being a dunce? EDIT: Yep, I spotted it now, the less importance comment is rather absurd.

The absurd bit aside, it is very important that the Thames Barrier is raised, especially for areas upstream of Teddington at the moment. This is because the Thames, in normal flow, is only tidal from Teddington Lock downstream. However, during major floods, the tidal range extends much further upstream, sometimes as far as Oxfordshire. By putting up the Thames Barrier, though water levels remain high, they fluctuate far less. If the flooded areas of Berkshire and Surrey were exposed to the tidal ranges of the Thames, then the results could be catastrophic. That is my understanding of the situation anyway!

Also, downstream of Teddington Lock is not so much at risk of inshore flooding, as the lock is used to regulate water levels.

Edited by Joe Levy
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The absurd bit aside, it is very important that the Thames Barrier is raised, especially for areas upstream of Teddington at the moment. This is because the Thames, in normal flow, is only tidal from Teddington Lock downstream. However, during major floods, the tidal range extends much further upstream, sometimes as far as Oxfordshire. By putting up the Thames Barrier, though water levels remain high, they fluctuate far less. If the flooded areas of Berkshire and Surrey were exposed to the tidal ranges of the Thames, then the results could be catstrophic. That is my understanding of the situation anyway!

Also, downstream of Teddington Lock is not so much at risk of inshore flooding, as the lock is used to regulate water levels.

 

How far up did the 1953 flood reach? Wikipedia doesn't mention anywhere West of Silvertown.

 

Bloomin' 'eck, we've got Caribbean crabs now, according to South Today! Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by katemart
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How far up did the 1953 flood reach? Wikipedia doesn't mention anywhere West of Silvertown.

I am not exactly sure, but anecdotal evidence from my family suggests that its effects were felt considerably further west than that. My Grandparents lived in Notting Hill at the time (back before it became the home of the rich and famous!) and their basement flooded. I'd be surprised if, given the severity of the flood, and the lack of the Thames Barrier, there was not flooding throughout much of tidal London. But I cannot confirm that. I think that the Thames is unusual in the way it funnels water from a sea that also has a tendency to funnel storm surges into small spaces. The Bristol Channel does this more significantly, due to its very high tidal range and near perfect funnel shape, but more people live in London (including the government and the media for the most part!) so it is not surprising that Thames tidal surges are more feared and publicised. The Severn Bore is more of an amusement most of the time! Sorry, rambling here haha

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Well, personally, I like a bit of a ramble and I've been told off for it before!  Posted Image   My family are Eastenders and my great-grandparents were flooded out of their house in Tilbury. I knew very little about the posh bits of the Thames until recently - quite changed my view of London, i can tell you!

 

 

The 6 o'clock news did detail the formula the EA has to use in order to calculate its flood defence policy but it didn't mention anything about the value of the land - assuming that the City of London is worth more per m2 than anywhere else in the country - or its strategic importance (given that Cobra sits in Downing Street (does it?)). Perhaps London is now considered safe and is exempt from flood planning for a few years.

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Yes Mr Cameron paid a flying visit to us today

Conveniently the military showed up two days before this flying visit to build the beach up lol

It's going to take more than a few diggers though the beach has been transformed by the recent weather , quite unbelievable really .

Nature will take it's course eventually and it will rebuild itself but obviously that will take a very long time .

I hope we don't have a repeat of last Wednesday just a week later !

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Get back on that moon of yours. Posted Image I'd like to think we could all see a few inches of settled snow in the coming days but I'm pretty sure it will be transient at best for us lowlanders and as for the Isle of Wight. Posted Image  Mulls and the Beast of Dartmoor should be two happy bunnies though methinks. Posted Image

Posted Image

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Well, personally, I like a bit of a ramble and I've been told off for it before!  Posted Image   My family are Eastenders and my great-grandparents were flooded out of their house in Tilbury. I knew very little about the posh bits of the Thames until recently - quite changed my view of London, i can tell you!

 

 

The 6 o'clock news did detail the formula the EA has to use in order to calculate its flood defence policy but it didn't mention anything about the value of the land - assuming that the City of London is worth more per m2 than anywhere else in the country - or its strategic importance (given that Cobra sits in Downing Street (does it?)). Perhaps London is now considered safe and is exempt from flood planning for a few years.

Note how the flood warnings and flood alerts stop abruptly at Teddington, reinforcing what I said about how Teddington Lock and the Thames Barrier protect London. Imagine how much worse these floods would be if we had no flood defences. There are many big cities that have been spared the worst, in spite of the disastrous situation elsewhere. In Exeter we are very grateful for our lovely large embankments, overflow channels, weirs and canal!

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The absurd bit aside, it is very important that the Thames Barrier is raised, especially for areas upstream of Teddington at the moment. This is because the Thames, in normal flow, is only tidal from Teddington Lock downstream. However, during major floods, the tidal range extends much further upstream, sometimes as far as Oxfordshire. By putting up the Thames Barrier, though water levels remain high, they fluctuate far less. If the flooded areas of Berkshire and Surrey were exposed to the tidal ranges of the Thames, then the results could be catastrophic. That is my understanding of the situation anyway!

Also, downstream of Teddington Lock is not so much at risk of inshore flooding, as the lock is used to regulate water levels.

 

Thanks Joe, it is somewhat confusing even to my occasional scientific mind. As someone who travelled up the A34 towards Oxford on one day earlier this year, I was stunned to see the flooded land either side of that main road. A few days back it had descended somewhat, however now, it must be in the same state once again I bet.

Edited by gottolovethisweather
duh, I'm now geographically challenged, yes rich the A34, duly corrected.
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Thanks Joe, it is somewhat confusing even to my occasional scientific mind. As someone who travelled up the A4 towards Oxford on one day earlier this year, I was stunned to see the flooded land either side of that main road. A few days back it had descended somewhat, however now, it must be in the same state once again I bet.

You mean A34.

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Ian f's forecast for snow wasn't great but there is a chance and more especially for Gloucester Posted Image Tuesday night into Wednesday.

 

Your chances are rising day by day Mulls, have patience. As for the rest of lowland England, well at least this region, it may be a longer wait but I remain hopeful into the weekend and beyond. WATCH THIS SPACE.

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Note how the flood warnings and flood alerts stop abruptly at Teddington, reinforcing what I said about how Teddington Lock and the Thames Barrier protect London. Imagine how much worse these floods would be if we had no flood defences. There are many big cities that have been spared the worst, in spite of the disastrous situation elsewhere. In Exeter we are very grateful for our lovely large embankments, overflow channels, weirs and canal!

 

Poor ole Topsham suffered recently though I hear.

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It's to protect the Pool of London from the ingress of tidal surges from the North Sea, not out from the land.

 

I wonder whether the surge could ever get worse than the anticipated surge from the sea this time around. Not much of an angry tide in the North Sea right now, different will be said of all the seas due South and West for the umpteenth time this Winter.

Edited by gottolovethisweather
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Note how the flood warnings and flood alerts stop abruptly at Teddington, reinforcing what I said about how Teddington Lock and the Thames Barrier protect London. Imagine how much worse these floods would be if we had no flood defences. There are many big cities that have been spared the worst, in spite of the disastrous situation elsewhere. In Exeter we are very grateful for our lovely large embankments, overflow channels, weirs and canal!

The Thames Barrier website says they did raise the embankments west of Hammersmith and Putney to allow for reduced outflow during flooding upstream so at least they considered the "less important areas" in the 70s.

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Poor ole Topsham suffered recently though I hear.

Yes it did indeed, I tried to walk along the river Exe to Topsham a few days and I couldn't because the path was flooded. Exeter is protected as far south as about the Countess Wear Bridge. South of that and it is very vulnerable to both tidal and river flooding.

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I wonder whether the surge could ever get worse than the anticipated surge from the sea this time around. Not much of an angry tide in the North Sea right now, different will be said of all the seas due South and West for the umpteenth time this Winter.

Presumably it is utterly impossible for there to be a tidal surge down the North Sea at the same time as up the Severn? Otherwise an independent Scotland might get a bit more than they bargained for! Posted Image

Edited by katemart
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