Manmade Climate Change Discussion

[Devonian]

As usual on this topic those who advocate CO2 to be the drive rely on others to explain their views rather than being able to explain in a sensible manner the mechanisms  involved from cradle to grave the CO2 impacts. Is this because its all theory and conjecture rather than real science !!!!

What?Plenty of text books out there explain the greenhouse effect.

[Devonian]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-48#entry2891056

Who 'they'?

Few of us are fans of the rules here but they are the same for all of us and simple as well, post to thread thread that most reflects your view. If you don't your post might be moved/deleted.

[Gray-Wolf]

It's odd to see those who drove the changes now referring to 'they'?

 

Part of the accepted way to disrupt the flow of any climate discussion is to cry 'foul' to the moderators, and do so as often as you can ( invisible demonisation of the folk who voice the biggest and most coherent concerns of the changes ongoing?) so as to limit their abilities to either be heard or , if possible , post.

 

Sadly once their aims are achieved they are also 'ruled' by the rules?

 

Anyone concerned about the situation and possessing a wish to bring the information to their peers may well complain ( through the right channels) about the changes the misleader adherents force board management to impose but they will do their best to keep to 'the rules'?

 

The next 'phase' will be to 'cyber bully', with threats of litigation (about individuals posting styles/content?) in an attempt to silence the folk who lead in the efforts to disseminate current scientific findings that reinforce the general AGW theory ( prior to the onset of the next warming surge).

 

All good fun, but all done to death through the tobacco campaigns. 

[VillagePlank]

That'll no doubt be referring to me, then, GW.

 

I am utterly convinced that you are astro-turfing. In the same way that tobacco companies would have done in the past. In the same way some religions knock on my door and try to convert me. In the same way that fire and brimstone (sound familiar?) is going to be my ultimate fate if I don't subscribe.

[Gray-Wolf]

Again Sparks, no-one in here just the way things are going? I'm sorry you have decided to hold such a dim opinion of my posts though? I do try and keep it to the facts and am doubly clear when it is 'My' opinion that is being posted. Maybe your fervour for 'banning' does reflect something of you though?

 

EDIT: Below  / / /  looks like SI fancies the SNIP?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Gray-Wolf

[VillagePlank]

snip

Edited January 10, 2014 by Sparkicle

[knocker]

A fair article on the subject I feel.

 

US cold snap fuels climate debate

 

http://www.nature.com/news/us-cold-snap-fuels-climate-debate-1.14485

Edited January 10, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

Global warming is being caused by humans, not the sun, and is highly sensitive to carbon, new research shows

 

New research reinforces human-caused global warming and a climate that's highly sensitive to an increased greenhouse effect

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jan/09/global-warming-humans-not-sun?CMP=twt_gu

Edited January 10, 2014 by knocker

[Devonian]

A fair article on the subject I feel.

 

US cold snap fuels climate debate

 

http://www.nature.com/news/us-cold-snap-fuels-climate-debate-1.14485

 

I remember a US cold winter, late 70's I think, where such a snap went on for weeks...

 

Christopher Burt has it right imo "The only significant thing about the cold wave is how long it has been since a cold wave of this force has hit for some portions of the country--18 years, to be specific. Prior to 1996, cold waves of this intensity occurred pretty much every 5-10 years. In the 19th century, they occurred every year or two (since 1835). Something that, unlike the cold wave, is a truly unprecedented is the dry spell in California and Oregon, which is causing unprecedented winter wildfires in Northern California."

[knocker]

I agree Dev.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

15-yr pause for some regions, seasons, but not in the ocean. Bob Henson from NCAR.

 

 

Bob Henson • January 8, 2014 | The globally averaged surface air temperature hasn’t risen much in the last 15 years. But as a fresh batch of research has made clear, there’s been ample heating of Earth—which becomes evident when looking at certain times of the year and in particular locations, including deep in the ocean.

 

http://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/opinion/10883/inside-warming-hiatus

Edited January 10, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-48#entry2892343

 

Could you supply proof that they have been massaging the data, which is tantamount to accusing them of fraud, because that ridiculous blog that you linked to doesn't. And I have looked quite closely even though I had to zoom in three times to read the chart.

 

Netweather accuses BOM of fraud. Sounds good to me.

[knocker]

Perhaps your accusation better directed to the authors below  

 

2013 was Australia's Hottest Year, Warm for Much of the World Posted on 10 January 2014 by Rob Painting

 

The following article was written by scientists from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology and originally appeared at The Conversation.

 

By Blair Trewin, Australian Bureau of Meteorology; David Jones, Australian Bureau of Meteorology; Karl Braganza, Australian Bureau of Meteorology; Neil Plummer, Australian Bureau of Meteorology, and Rob Smalley, Australian Bureau of Meteorology.

 

 

The Bureau of Meteorology has confirmed 2013 as Australia’s hottest year since records began in 1910.

 

Average temperatures over the continent have been 1.2C above the 1961-1990 average, breaking the previous record set in 2005 by 0.17C. It was also the hottest year on record for South Australia, Western Australia and the Northern Territory. The other states - Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania – recorded above-average temperatures that rank in their top four hottest years.

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/2013-was-Australias-hottest-year-warm-for-much-of-the-world.html#.UtA4QjKqVpw.twitter

 

And here is a 2013 technical report from CSIRO on heat waves, written by John Nairn and Robert Fawcett.

Edited January 11, 2014 by knocker

[Gray-Wolf]

Well Knocks I get the feeling that the Aussies are gonna have to get used to the record warm years? The Ocean warmth that has been held as responsible for their record year have not abated so the 'forcing' is still sat there?

 

Should this turn into a Nino year then we may see a few other nations posting 'hottest year' as well......but then there'll be a heinous plot between Met. Bureaus to prop up the temp records and make global warming look worse!

 

But hold on? aren't met. employees some of the worst deniers of climate change? Wouldn't the likes of Hudson and $astardi spill the beans over such a plot? 

 

As for 'ocean heat' I am concerned at some of the levels ,and depths, we are seeing exceptional temps across world oceans? The Pacific and Indian Oceans seem to have the largest reserves and we are just entering the southern Cyclone season.

[knocker]

The Koch brothers political empire continues to metastasize

 

Almost four years ago we started to call attention to the Koch brothers, radical 'free market' oil and gas conglomerate multibillionaires, as significant funders of the global warming denial machine (Koch Industries multibillionaire Koch brothers bankroll attacks on climate change science and policy). Since then, the Koch political empire continues to metastasize into what a Washington Post investigative article on January 5 calls "a far-reaching operation of unrivaled complexity, built around a maze of groups that cloaks its donors, according to an analysis of new tax returns and other documents." (Koch-backed political coalition, designed to shield donors, raised $400 million in 2012)

 

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2014/01/08/the-koch-brothers-political-empire-continues-to-metastasize/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Gray-Wolf]

Massaging the data

 

The Bureau of Meteorology [bOM] has released its report for Australian climate during 2013.

According to the BOM 2013 was the hottest year on record, in Australia. However both satellite temperatures, RSS and UAH, and a global surface temperature, GHCN, all found other Australian years to be warmer:

 

Naturally the pro-AGW people have been all over the BOM report claiming it as evidence for AGW, while ignoring the results from the other equally valid sources for temperature. But even if the BOM report is correct it is problematic whether AGW is the cause of the temperature. It is doubtful because during 2013 and for at least a decade the Diurnal Temperature Range [DTR] has not been decreasing but increasing.

  http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=2613

 

Some one had better tell the 100,000 plus dead bats " including the Black Flying Foxes, Little Red Flying Foxes and the endangered Gray-Headed Flying Foxes" that they're dying a needless death as the temps are not what the B.O.M. are reporting........

 

Odd that we have never seen reports before in which Bats have been dying in such numbers due to the heat? But then this 'Faux heat' that the B.O.M. have been telling us about, has been ongoing since sept 2012 so maybe it's the 'length' of the lie that matters to them?

[Gray-Wolf]

Meanwhile I'm left wondering what we'll be hearing about this turn of events;

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/weather/buffalo-region-braces-for-possible-flooding-along-creeks-20140111?

 

Will we see ex speakers of the house declaring a global warmup???

Edited January 11, 2014 by Gray-Wolf

[Gray-Wolf]

Met office agree or disagree with David Cameron  http://t.co/4etyAtoAcK

 

Where to begin? Do we , on this thread find mental illness a thing to joke about? I'd kinda like to think that we have more humanity in us to find it 'punny'?

 

Secondly is it just me or does the whole piece have great difficulty in distinguishing 'science fact' from 'personal opinion/belief'?

 

Maybe contributors to the 'other place' or all cursed with this issue, this confusion/delusion that anything exiting a persons mouth is 'science fact' if they are 'scientific' in their qualifications?

 

I know I'm often targeted for my opinions on where I believe science tells us we're headed, and recently even had folk try and have it appear that those 'opinions' were no more than an attempt to 'mislead folk' as to what the science is telling us, but they are my opinions, my understanding of things ( and often a thinly veiled plea for a better take on the subject!) and not scientific quotes.......

 

Anyhoo's , if ,over there, they cannot distinguish between fact and opinion then it is no wonder they are having difficulties with things? It must be a very confusing world for them? 

Edited January 11, 2014 by Gray-Wolf

[Methuselah]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-48#entry2892343

 

Oh dear. Will the conspiracy theorists never give up?

[Methuselah]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-49#entry2893190

 

Not wanting to sound like a stick-in-the-mud, Keith - but wouldn't the best folks to ask be those Aussies who happen to live on the ground?

[Polar Maritime]

                                                                                                             

 

I have brought my previous study (see here and here) up-to-date by reviewing peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals over the period from Nov. 12, 2012 through December 31, 2013. I found 2,258 articles, written by a total of 9,136 authors. (Download the chart above here.) Only one article, by a single author in the Herald of the Russian Academy of Sciences, rejected man-made global warming. I discuss that article here.  http://www.jamespowell.org/

[Gray-Wolf]

                                                                                                             

 

I have brought my previous study (see here and here) up-to-date by reviewing peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals over the period from Nov. 12, 2012 through December 31, 2013. I found 2,258 articles, written by a total of 9,136 authors. (Download the chart above here.) Only one article, by a single author in the Herald of the Russian Academy of Sciences, rejected man-made global warming. I discuss that article here.  http://www.jamespowell.org/

 

How long before the U.S. fossil fuel lobby welcome the Red into their bed I wonder???

[Gray-Wolf]

I'd again have to refer back to the ongoing public health crisis that the death, via heat exhaustion, of those 100,000 bats are currently causing down under?

 

Why have they left it to now to die in their thousands if this austral summer is not as recorded by the B.O.M.?

 

Maybe folk from the other thread could do some reading up on the event and then go hunting the old newspapers ( some of them seem adept at checking through ancient Aussie papers when it suits ) to find something similar in a past summer?

[Methuselah]

Lol, when do they do that when it's cold records that are broken.

Just about every time. As with in the US of A just now. Is anyone in denial about North America's current cold wave?

[Methuselah]

I don't Pete as I still class it as weather and I know there are few on this thread who do the same with warm records.

I think that it's the ratio of warm/cold anomalies that folks on here take notice of?

[Gray-Wolf]

GW, are you saying we should ignore any data that doesn't back a warming trend, because if you are then we are heading into a dangerous place which I'm sure most proponents of AGW won't agree with?

 

The records tell us the planet is gaining heat apace and that 2013 was only bested in global temps by a 'super nino' year ( being an E.N.S.O. neutral year itself) and the forecasts are for a 'large Nino' with the prospects of the I.P.O. and P.D.O. flipping into their respective warm phases to boot.

 

I feel your song wearying you S.I. but , fear not!, soon you will have no need of it at all.........