Manmade Climate Change Discussion

[Polar Maritime]

[Devonian]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-67#entry2993978

What do you mean Keith? The US, the globe? And no link!!!! For the nth time, how can we follow your claims if you dont provide links? Shesshhh!

[knocker]

Anthony Watts and the Bottom of the Barrel

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/anthony-watts-and-the-bottom-of-the-barrel/

[Methuselah]

^^ There's an increasing sense of desperation within the gruesome threesome, knocker. I think they're rather worried about how warm this year's shaping up to be? But I'm sure that Monckton will be able to find something suitably inane to say, on the subject...

[knocker]

I posted this in the North American thread where it should reside but some of it is applicable here so I've posted it here as well.

 

2014: A Weird Weather Year in Alaska So Far

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/2014-weird-weather-year-alaska-17651

[knocker]

This has absolutely nothing to do with weather but rather Popeye and Spinach and Academic Urban Legends. I found it fascinating and amusing.

 

http://sss.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/06/23/0306312714535679.full.pdf+html

 

[Polar Maritime]

[Methuselah]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-68#entry2994795

 

And that says what exactly about science?

[Gray-Wolf]

Says an awful lot about politics though Pete? Gore is a political beast, he takes on board info and uses it to forward his agenda. This 'prodigal Son' moment was a clever move by Gore making Palmer's 'U' turn a thing that will have to stick or make Palmer lose face in front of his followers? 

 

In a waked out Christian kind of way why would you waste time saving the blessed when there are glorious sinners all around you?

 

The evidence of the damage, both being done and in the pipeline, is becoming so great that it would not pay ( in industry) to ignore it? As the politicians saw in the 80's the only way for corps to maintain is to look like they are part of the worlds solutions and not driving the issues so I expect to see all the F.F. companies queuing to tell us how 'green' their operations are? 

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25801-huge-whirlpools-in-the-ocean-are-driving-the-weather.html?cmpid=RSS#.U67dbfldUrU

 

This can't be good news in a world of over heating oceans? If we are looking at spin off vortices, and not just currents, to redistribute the heat around the globe then surely these eddies are capable of speeding up that process compared to the slow plod of currents alone?

[Methuselah]

Says an awful lot about politics though Pete? 

It does indeed, Ian...But what is the pride in being willfully bamboozled?

[knocker]

HotWhopper looks closely and in detail at this.

 

NOAA and temperature data - it must be a conspiracy.

http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/06/noaa-and-temperature-data-it-must-be.html#more

 

And Nick Stokes

 

  USHCN tempest over Luling, Texas

[Crepuscular Ray]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-68#entry2994795

 

And that says what exactly about science?

I'm no sure that it says anything about science, apart from the fact that the author isn't a scientist - or at least one who understands meteorology.

 

On a related note, how do the results of this study tally with the assertations on the other side of Antarctc sea ice being at its greatest extent for who knows how long?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/emperor-penguins-will-be-wiped-out-by-end-of-the-century-due-to-melting-sea-ice-9571495.html

Edited June 29, 2014 by Crepuscular Ray

[knocker]

I'm no sure that it says anything about science, apart from the fact that the author isn't a scientist - or at least one who understands meteorology.

 

On a related note, how do the results of this study tally with the assertations on the other side of Antarctc sea ice being at its greatest extent for who knows how long?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/emperor-penguins-will-be-wiped-out-by-end-of-the-century-due-to-melting-sea-ice-9571495.html

 

I don't know CR but it may be linked to this,

 

http://www.vims.edu/newsandevents/topstories/ross_sea_thaw.php

[knocker]

 

A new video from the Yale Climate Forum delivers the best news on the climate change front that I’ve seen in a long time. Maybe ever.

 

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/gold-from-the-sky/

 

[knocker]

Record winter warmth in NZ: June 2014 breaks 140 year record

 

http://hot-topic.co.nz/record-winter-warmth-in-nz-june-2014-breaks-140-year-record/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+co%2FRbRF+%28Hot+Topic%29

[Gray-Wolf]

Never mind that Keith, watch out for THIS!!!!

 

http://www.vims.edu/newsandevents/topstories/ross_sea_thaw.php

 

Researchers say Ross Sea will reverse current trend, be largely ice free in summer by 2100.

 

  Yes you read it right, 2100.

 

What's this ? In a warming globe we expect to see less ice? Who'd have thunk it?

 

When the deniers get over their delight at seeing certain Antarctic areas expanding extent ( and holding onto it over summer) they might mull over the end result of the 'trend' for warming that we are on? Once Ozone settles and the Antarctic oscillation flips back to the state we saw prior to the 80's what do they expect us to see happen?

 

Let us not forget the acceleration in the land ice losses across all ice sheets here, what does losing the ice from deep within a frozen continent tell us about conditions there?

 

Surely the deniers know that by making such a scene about the south they are setting themselves up for a fall once decline re-commences?

 

We see the same with global temp rises. We know that both natural forcings and man made forcings have rather dampened the past decade of warming ( but not stopped it!) so they make a loud noise....... do they not believe in natural forcings now? Do they not see short term natural forcings as variable in nature or do they only support the deniers in their forcings?

 

With PDO trending ever more positive ( are we seeing it flip positive???) they must be asking themselves what they have let themselves in for? The resumption of warming will have both the natural cycles adding into temp rises but also an arctic ever more bereft of ice ( and ever fuller of surfaces that absorb and re-emit the heat ) and and Asia becoming ever cleaner in its fossil fuel use? I know what I expect to happen come the next warming spurt...... do they?

[Gray-Wolf]

Oh Dear! Now they can't get their heads around the difference between forecasts for snow and climate models showing warmer global temps means less global ice????

 

Again I ask the other place to use their noggin and try and figure what the end result of 400ppm CO2 means to the world ( clue: look at what it always did in the past!)

 

Things like extra Antarctic sea ice extent in areas and failure for Nino's to get past the first Kelvin wave should prick folks imagination not lead into rapture! Something is amiss and there must be a reason for it.

 

Since the 80's we've seen unusual ice conditions around the southern continent even as we measured mass loss from the land ice increase dramatically. Surely this rings some alarm bells? 

 

Are we seeing the first time that earth has revolted against high GHG levels by cooling? Is this how it begins then? The rest of the world warms leading to the loss of Arctic ice /mountain glaciers but the seasonal sea ice around a melting Antarctica increases! See! the worlds problems are over.........

[knocker]

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/76448-scepticism-of-man-made-climate-change/page-68#entry2996711

 

 

Planet Earth has warmed & cooled since the day it was created,

 

That really is a puerile argument and has been beaten to death by deniers. Lung cancer occurred before smoking; ergo there is no link. Or you check your bank balance and find a major discrepancy. When you query it the bank replies that your account is always going up and down go figure. Which of course you accept.

 

 

the fact is the run away warming that the experts predicted hasn't happened (but but but it WILL!) & they still try & ram this down everyone's throat.

 

Do you think you could do us all the courtesy of naming the scientists who predicted the runaway warming that hasn't happened. Are you also saying that no global warming has occurred in the last 150 years?  If a mass of scientific data is ramming down everyone's throats then so be it. from where I'm sitting most of the ramming seems to be coming from the denier camp. Have you checked Willard's latest ramblings.

 

http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/07/incompetent-or-deceitful-anthony-watts.html#update

 

 

Amazing how these experts can predict an ice free world in 50/100 years

 

On the subject of rambling.........................................

Edited July 2, 2014 by knocker

[knocker]

 

Indeed, see above. Come back to me when the poles ARE ice free & cold winters ARE a thing of the past. I look forward to it. What this has to with your flippant remark about lung cancer I do not know.

 

But your comment was:

 

 

Amazing how these experts can predict an ice free world

 

Which is interesting as the paper to which you refer says:

 

Now, a modeling study led by Professor Walker Smith of the Virginia Institute of Marine Science suggests that the Ross Sea’s recent observed increase in summer sea-ice cover is likely short-lived, with the area projected to lose more than half its summer sea ice by 2050 and more than three quarters by 2100.

 

which you have morphed into 'an ice free world', Either you are trying to be deliberately misleading or you can't read. As for my lung cancer analogy I would have thought it self-explanatory.

 

And it is one paper. It doesn't automatically become number eleven on the tablet.

Edited July 2, 2014 by knocker

[Gray-Wolf]

Do we really need to do this again knocks? We know ( by now) that they are not really listening merely looking for an opportunity to push out their nonsense for the sake of the Lurkers?

 

I am becoming more content just to sit and wait for the naturals to swing positive and see what they say about the global results it drives....... in fact I have a few dark moments when I chortle at the prospect......... then I realise that i have come over all 'Nero' and put away my fiddle........

[jonboy]

Do we really need to do this again knocks? We know ( by now) that they are not really listening merely looking for an opportunity to push out their nonsense for the sake of the Lurkers?

 

I am becoming more content just to sit and wait for the naturals to swing positive and see what they say about the global results it drives....... in fact I have a few dark moments when I chortle at the prospect......... then I realise that i have come over all 'Nero' and put away my fiddle........

 

Well you are likely to have a very long wait as I don't see these natural drives turning positive enough to drive what you see until around 2060 when we will be into cycle 26/27

[Gray-Wolf]

Well then we'll have to wait and see as I witness the majors that have tempered global temp rises all on the verge of the flip back to augmenting AGW driven temp rises.

 

Unlike the last time we saw this we have seen dramatic changes since the last major run of high global yearly temp increases all of which will also augment global temps.

 

If the recent increases in the Arctic are enough to bring us up to global temp rises similar to the 80's/90's then what will they do to a globe that is warming at that rate without the Arctic being included???? We have seen what the Jet behaves like under current forcings ( poor midwest!) so what happens when we narrow the temp/pressure gradient even further between pole and equator? Do we lose the polar jet? Do the tropics expand rapidly poleward as the sub tropical jet swings north to compensate for the loss of the polar Jet?

 

We don't have long to wait to find out do we?

[knocker]

Do we really need to do this again knocks? We know ( by now) that they are not really listening merely looking for an opportunity to push out their nonsense for the sake of the Lurkers?

 

I am becoming more content just to sit and wait for the naturals to swing positive and see what they say about the global results it drives....... in fact I have a few dark moments when I chortle at the prospect......... then I realise that i have come over all 'Nero' and put away my fiddle........

 

Very true GW. To move on Isaac Held's blog is always worth a read.

 

http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/blog/isaac-held/2014/07/01/48-increasing-vertically-integrated-water-vapor-over-the-oceans/

Edited July 2, 2014 by knocker

[Gray-Wolf]

Guess who's being nasty over on the other thread? I've looked for what we are accused of, here on this thread , and can see no reason to take such a nasty tone? Why must he do it?

Edited July 2, 2014 by Gray-Wolf