Jump to content
Cold?
Local
Radar
Snow?

Recommended Posts

The overall sunshine anomaly maps for summer 2013 and the individual month ones would suggest otherwise.

I don't care what the anomaly maps say - as TWS has pointed out, they often fail to pick up local discrepancies .

 

June sunshine - 157.2 hours

July sunshine - 221.4 hours

August sunshine - 165.5 hours

 

Total - 544.1

1981-2010 average - 578.0

 

It isn't a significant deficit, but a deficit all the same. Not a sunny summer here by any means. Some areas are bound to draw the short straw, and unfortunately, I am in one of those unlucky areas, as far as July is concerned. Few stations managed to record less sunshine than Church Fenton in July.

 

But if the Shropshire cloud effect was persistent, then it would be reflected in the averages and not the anomalies. All of your examples with relatively less sunshine in Shropshire compared to elsewhere in the country would therefore be cancelled out by examples of Shropshire getting relatively more sunshine in the rest of the country.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/ukmapavge.html

You can get averages here. Perhaps it's because Shropshire finds itself between the Irish sea coast, which has plenty of sunshine, and the south, which also has relatively more sunshine but doesn't benefit from either of these locations. But it's still sunnier than the upland areas surrounding Shropshire.

Have a look at the 1981-2010 averages for Shawbury, near Shrewsbury. Also have a look at Preston Montford and Penkridge (not in Shropshire, but in the general area). The latter two in particular strike me as being unusually cloudy given the location - central England and at a low elevation (below 100m). Shawbury actually has similar sunshine hours to Coleshill so is perhaps not too unusual, although there is a respectable difference in elevation between the two.

Edited by cheese
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted · Hidden by cheese, September 9, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by cheese, September 9, 2013 - No reason given

But if the Shropshire cloud effect was persistent, then it would be reflected in the averages and not the anomalies. All of your examples with relatively less sunshine in Shropshire compared to elsewhere in the country would therefore be cancelled out by examples of Shropshire getting relatively more sunshine in the rest of the country.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/ukmapavge.html

You can get averages here. Perhaps it's because Shropshire finds itself between the Irish sea coast, which has plenty of sunshine, and the south, which also has relatively more sunshine but doesn't benefit from either of these locations. But it's still sunnier than the upland areas surrounding Shropshire.

Have a look at the 1981-2010 averages for Shawbury, near Shrewsbury. It's unusually cloudy for a low-level station in central England.

Link to post

I don't care what the anomaly maps say - as TWS has pointed out, they often fail to pick up local discrepancies .

 

June sunshine - 157.2 hours

July sunshine - 221.4 hours

August sunshine - 165.5 hours

 

Total - 544.1

1981-2010 average - 578.0

 

It isn't a significant deficit, but a deficit all the same. Not a sunny summer here by any means. Some areas are bound to draw the short straw, and unfortunately, I am in one of those unlucky areas, as far as July is concerned. Few stations managed to record less sunshine than Church Fenton in July.

 

Have a look at the 1981-2010 averages for Shawbury, near Shrewsbury. Also have a look at Preston Montford and Penkridge (not in Shropshire, but in the general area). The latter two in particular strike me as being unusually cloudy given the location - central England and at a low elevation (below 100m). Shawbury actually has similar sunshine hours to Coleshill so is perhaps not too unusual, although there is a respectable difference in elevation between the two.

Yes, Preston Montford (closer than Shawbury to Shrewsbury) is unbelievably cloudy considering it's in a rain shadow, fairly low, and a long way inland. It's notable that it's cloudier than Shawbury about 10 miles away, especially it seems in the summer- about 20 hours difference in July.

 

Penkridge (east of Telford, just in Staffs) is almost identical to PM in summer, but duller in winter, which is perhaps a reflection of the way the Welsh mountain rain shadow only works properly in winter- with a W wind in summer the cloud just comes straight over. Westerly months in summer (July 2010, Aug 2008) can be just as dull here as on the west coast.

 

When you consider the rainfall as well- PM (667mm) is similar to much of SE England e.g. Heathrow 661mm,  Reading 635 mm, Southampton 779mm; so why is it not as sunny?

Edited by Summer of 95
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we had june 190hrs

july 219hrs

august167 total 576 hrs

in last 10 years both 2010 and 2011 had sunnier junes and 2003,2004,2005 and 2009 were all just a few hours behind

 

august was sunnier in 2003,2005 and 2007 and 2011 just a few hours behind

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Preston Montford (closer than Shawbury to Shrewsbury) is unbelievably cloudy considering it's in a rain shadow, fairly low, and a long way inland. It's notable that it's cloudier than Shawbury about 10 miles away, especially it seems in the summer- about 20 hours difference in July.

 

Penkridge (east of Telford, just in Staffs) is almost identical to PM in summer, but duller in winter, which is perhaps a reflection of the way the Welsh mountain rain shadow only works properly in winter- with a W wind in summer the cloud just comes straight over. Westerly months in summer (July 2010, Aug 2008) can be just as dull here as on the west coast.

 

When you consider the rainfall as well- PM (667mm) is similar to much of SE England e.g. Heathrow 661mm,  Reading 635 mm, Southampton 779mm; so why is it not as sunny?

It's bewildering, isn't it? And no doubt frustrating for you. My guess is that there is a lot of residual cloud from rain that never makes it over the Welsh Mountains, and maybe cloud is easily filtered through the Cheshire Gap during NW winds.

 

Winterbourne, however, is quite a bit sunnier than both PM and Penkridge, for some reason, despite being very close to both and at a similar elevation, but is quite a bit wetter than Shawbury, Preston Montford and Penkridge! 

Edited by cheese
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's bewildering, isn't it? And no doubt frustrating for you. My guess is that there is a lot of residual cloud from rain that never makes it over the Welsh Mountains, and maybe cloud is easily filtered through the Cheshire Gap during NW winds.

 

Winterbourne, however, is quite a bit sunnier than both PM and Penkridge, for some reason, despite being very close to both and at a similar elevation, but is quite a bit wetter than Shawbury, Preston Montford and Penkridge! 

What I do notice often is cumulus forming over Wales blowing into Shropshire, and flattening out into grey sheets, which dissipate from about Wolverhampton eastward. Combined with the lack of thunder round here it seems as though there's some kind of local effect that hinders deep convection, and creates cloudy inversions. And the lenticular cloud- we get so much of that that it merges into As-like sheets.

 

The Cheshire Gap does bring cloud if the wind is in the right direction (Hereford and Worcester escapes it) but it's more noticeable for infuriating breezes that keep it up to 5C cooler here than elsewhere in the Midlands. Shawbury 22C with a F6 NW'ly, Hereford 27C with a F2 SE'ly is a not uncommon summer setup.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And on top of that this year it's not just been the usual strato grey sheets, but also a lot of mid-high level/aircraft type cloud that has seemingly appeared out of absolutely nowhere and stuck over us all day on days which would normally of been mostly clear, especially happened on many days in July, and all through last week's warm spell. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

And on top of that this year it's not just been the usual strato grey sheets, but also a lot of mid-high level/aircraft type cloud that has seemingly appeared out of absolutely nowhere and stuck over us all day on days which would normally of been mostly clear, especially happened on many days in July, and all through last week's warm spell. 

Lol don't get me started on the aircraft muck, suffice to say it seems to get worse/thicker/more persistent every year, and it also has that uncanny ability to spread out over Shropshire (when it formed west of Ireland). Always seems to turn up the same time every day, 3-4pm, from the same direction, west. And some people in the Midlands forum still don't believe me when I say we didn't get that spreading out type before the late 90s, just the lines that quickly disappeared...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well given the right conditions they should have spread out just like today..  you just got less of them so it may have been less noticeable or too thin/not enough to make much difference.

 

Also if it's such an increasing problem how come our climate averages have got slightly sunnier over the last 3 averaging periods?

 

It's usually not a problem here though it can happen, but it can be hard to tell how much would be genuine cirrus stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking over the Met Office's annual sunshine anomaly maps dating back to 2001, it does appear that many central and northern parts of Wales have often registered lower sunshine percentages than most other parts of the country, with 2006 and 2007 being the only notable exceptions.  Another area that has got cloudier relative to most of the rest of the country in recent years is the far south-west of Scotland, for instance around Eskdalemuir which seems to be a cloud hotspot in many "westerly" months these days.

 

Sometimes statistical quirks like that crop up- I remember that in 2000 and 2001, in Weather Log, Manchester Airport kept getting a raw deal sunshine wise while Heathrow Airport had the lion's share of positive sunshine anomalies in most months from 1999 to 2003, but those trends have not persisted since then.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well given the right conditions they should have spread out just like today..  you just got less of them so it may have been less noticeable or too thin/not enough to make much difference.

 

Also if it's such an increasing problem how come our climate averages have got slightly sunnier over the last 3 averaging periods?

 

It's usually not a problem here though it can happen, but it can be hard to tell how much would be genuine cirrus stuff.

The thinner stuff might not affect some sunshine sensors, it can be completely contrailed over and still record if it's bright enough. More and more though it forms huge sheets that develop dark undersides, and a strange wavy pattern- that stuff definitely didn't exist 20 years ago, and it blocks the sun. It often seems to turn up in warm humid airmasses in summer.

Edited by Summer of 95
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well given the right conditions they should have spread out just like today..  you just got less of them so it may have been less noticeable or too thin/not enough to make much difference.

 

Also if it's such an increasing problem how come our climate averages have got slightly sunnier over the last 3 averaging periods?

 

It's usually not a problem here though it can happen, but it can be hard to tell how much would be genuine cirrus stuff.

A trend that occurs at the end of an averaging period may not affect the actual period.

Link to post
Share on other sites

statistically it supposed to be rather dry....

 

but mushies grass growth index (pure guesswork...lol) says otherwise...

 

i lost only 2 visits because 'its not worth it'... in real dry summers i get far more cancelations, plus i mow short dry dusty lawns more. this year the grass has continued to grow, august was very long and lush, (after the heatwave breakdown - thundery rain). not an easy year for me, in fact 2011 was much better, whilst not being as sunny/warm, rain amounts were less. mowing was much easier..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rain was very concentrated into short hefty bursts - plus it quite often fell overnight I found. This meant very little interruption to outdoor stuff in general so felt drier than many of the previous summers.

It's like if a particular summer it only rained weekends or weekday evenings lightly (but frequently) but never overnight/weekday daytimes the totals might be quite low but it'd seem an absolutely dire summer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rain was very concentrated into short hefty bursts - plus it quite often fell overnight I found. This meant very little interruption to outdoor stuff in general so felt drier than many of the previous summers.

It's like if a particular summer it only rained weekends or weekday evenings lightly (but frequently) but never overnight/weekday daytimes the totals might be quite low but it'd seem an absolutely dire summer.

 

absolutely, and not only rainfall.. but if its sunny when we are not at work (weekends, evenings, late afternoons) but is cloudy when we are indoors then out perception of a summer will be different.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The thinner stuff might not affect some sunshine sensors, it can be completely contrailed over and still record if it's bright enough. More and more though it forms huge sheets that develop dark undersides, and a strange wavy pattern- that stuff definitely didn't exist 20 years ago, and it blocks the sun. It often seems to turn up in warm humid airmasses in summer.

 

It could be that they still record very weak sunshine as sun.

Sounds interesting those huge sheets, here the only thing with dark undersides and strange wavy pattern's usually comes from warm humid situations like with you, but perhaps thundery ones or from some high/upper level disturbance if it's quite high based, nothing that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago here at least.

 

Rain was very concentrated into short hefty bursts - plus it quite often fell overnight I found. This meant very little interruption to outdoor stuff in general so felt drier than many of the previous summers.

It's like if a particular summer it only rained weekends or weekday evenings lightly (but frequently) but never overnight/weekday daytimes the totals might be quite low but it'd seem an absolutely dire summer.

 

 

 

Here this summer has been notably dry, only 85mm all summer. In a way rainfall here has been opposite to that, I think the rainfall accumulation was more below average than actual rain days, at least with June and August (August was still a decent summer month though). There has been no daily total over 8mm since May now, and very limited heavy downpours and thunderstorms overhead (perhaps short heavy showers at times though)

Only had to cut the lawn a couple of times since the start of July before it stopped growing again in August.

 

I've noticed some trees around here are looking unusually Autumnal or have dropped leaves. For example yesterday I saw some beech trees amongst others that looked more like late October or early November with all orange/brown leaves. Presumably this is due to drought stress with the smaller falls of rain we did have unable to penetrate too far below the grass or into the soil..

 

What you describe sounds how I like my summer rain, mainly in shorter heavy convective bursts with a few quite large falls and thunderstorms to keep things watered well, and mainly sunny/warm the rest of the time.

Edited by Stormmad26
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

What a lovely day! 22c and sunny. In late September, you can still get days like these- even into early October, so I'll definitely appreciate them before going into cold watch. Superb summer.

I believe you can get 20+ in november

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...