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A Winter's Tale

Should Alcohol Be Banned?

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Contraversial topic to discuss!

Think of the effects on the body, people's lives, communities, the economy. Can any other solutions solve it or has it become so big a problem or at the core of our society that it will need to be banned.

You debate! Lol

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In answer to the topic title - No!

I'm a grown up, I can moderate my own consumption thank you very much; I neither need nor want yet more interference from Government in my life.

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If you go by government policy on most drugs, then yes, it should be banned.

But I like a drink and it's my personal choice to do so, so not, it shouldn't be banned. If it was outlawed it would just give more power to criminal gangs.

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People trying to ban alcohol should be banned! :drunk:

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Well if it was controlled in the same way any other drug is we wouldn't have problems with drunks building pressure on NHS & Emergency Service resources every weekend, drunken louts at football matches, disfunctional/anti-social families and behaviour, continuing health problems faced by millions who continue to drink, and many more issues with excessive drinking.

Limitation is where it's at, but also the legalisation of Cannabis aswell in providing an alternative to the violence alcohol brings. I'm truly a believer of the Bill Hicks philosophy of legalising Cannabis and having the governments cashing in on the tax & merch revenue it would bring. This would solve our budget deficit by at least 15% overnight with added benefits for allowing farming to grow natural herbalised plants to sell onwards to the pharma industry.

What benefits does alcohol give in comparison?

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A very difficult question.

While generally liberal i do believe that the health of the nation is important and that health is one of the few issues where 'government knows best'.

In the sense that alcohol is effectively poison then yes alcohol should be banned on health grounds and i believe a white paper actually concluded that if alcohol was found now it would be classified as a class A drug.

Practicalities however do mean that prohibition is unlikely to occur again in the UK (not before 2050 anyway). Alcohol is a generally inelastic taxable product which means that government can raise taxes on it and alcohol is so immersed in our culture that it simply would not be enforceable.

Should it be banned - Yes

Could it be banned - No

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I think banning Alcohol would send us into another recession tbh... It must represent a decent amount of our GDP...

It helps people relax anyways, no need to ban it :)

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Well if it was controlled in the same way any other drug is we wouldn't have problems with drunks building pressure on NHS & Emergency Service resources every weekend, drunken louts at football matches, disfunctional/anti-social families and behaviour, continuing health problems faced by millions who continue to drink, and many more issues with excessive drinking.

I doubt very much that would be the case. Just remember the americans tried this in the 20s and 30s, that didn't work too well if I remember my 20th Century history. Alcohol was banned but people still had the same problems. It seems that the only difference was you bought it off the black market, directly funding organised crime rather than legitimate off licences/pubs which paid taxes. lets not forget the demise/ job losses associated with breweries, pubs, hotels and restaurants etc and the loss of tax revenues, no I can't see how this would be beneficial. I think it would also be counter constructive to have yet more government influence on how we conduct our lives at a time when we should be taking our own responsibility more seriously.

Moomin

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If alcohol never existed and today someone discovered it and tried to make it legal then they would have no chance.

Toxic, bad for your health, causes no end of social problems.

Am in the government interfere enough camp and they should spend time doing something more constructive, up here from the start of October multi-buy deals were banned.

This of course meant folks ordered booze online from England and circumvented the ban - Or prices changed to get round it.

3 bottles of wine for £10 quid became bottles of wine at £3.33. Now the next step is a minimum unit price for alcohol, not sure about the economics of this.. Something that certainly is wrong is that you have supermarkets selling super strength booze cheaper than bottles of juice.

I wouldn't ban it - would probably create more problems than it would solve.

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As such you cannot 'ban' a natural product of a decay process. Almost any fruit or grain has natural wild yeast growing on it and it will produce ethanol as a byproduct of anearobic digestion. Ie. as soon as any oxygen is excluded or used up (such as inside an appple) then it wil start to ferment and produce alchohol, all be it in small quantities.

Leading on to the wider context of alchohol in society and its use and misuse then again history shows prohibition does not work. Bathub gin and whiskey were staples of the Prohibition era in the US and now it is so much more easy to make a palatable brew at home either from kits or basic recipies. Home distillation is still illegal in the UK but any dedicated competant home brewer can produce a wine with up to 20% abv, that's something approaching the strength of commercial sherry, port and other fortified drinks or about the same as 1/2 and 1/2 whisky and water. There is little need to distill for home consumption!

Likewise even a cursary glance at the web will reveal excellent recipies for good beers, lager and cider along with suppliers of specialist yeasts, hops and malt etc.

All that said, I now choose not to go out on a Friday or Saturday night due to the disturbances, fights and generally sickening behavior that some think is normal and even desirable to engage in. Hospital Casualty untits are awash with the afterevents of this behavior and has to be paid for by us all, even teetotallers so better to tax it, tax it and tax it again to pay for education on how to respect drink and how it affects us and, if anyone abuses it, make them pay for their own post-binge treatment.

Anyone for a small glass of elderflower champaign? :smilz38:

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Dont think it should be band as i think its up to people if thay make the choice to drink or not like a few of u have said theres a deferance between binge drinking and going to your loacal for a pint.the other aspect of it is its a social thing which brings people together if the goverment and all the do gooders had there way we wouldnt talk to anyone apart from the internet and networks eg facebook ect.alo there be no pubs or workingmens club life would be boring.humans need other humans at the end of the day.

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I think banning Alcohol would send us into another recession tbh... It must represent a decent amount of our GDP...

It helps people relax anyways, no need to ban it :)

Scotch alone is actually worth 2% of the Scottish economy.

The cost to the UK economy of alcohol is about 1% of GDP however the revenue contributes about 2% of UK GDP (hospitality industry as a whole).

As such you cannot 'ban' a natural product of a decay process. Almost any fruit or grain has natural wild yeast growing on it and it will produce ethanol as a byproduct of anearobic digestion. Ie. as soon as any oxygen is excluded or used up (such as inside an appple) then it wil start to ferment and produce alchohol, all be it in small quantities.

Leading on to the wider context of alchohol in society and its use and misuse then again history shows prohibition does not work. Bathub gin and whiskey were staples of the Prohibition era in the US and now it is so much more easy to make a palatable brew at home either from kits or basic recipies. Home distillation is still illegal in the UK but any dedicated competant home brewer can produce a wine with up to 20% abv, that's something approaching the strength of commercial sherry, port and other fortified drinks or about the same as 1/2 and 1/2 whisky and water. There is little need to distill for home consumption!

Likewise even a cursary glance at the web will reveal excellent recipies for good beers, lager and cider along with suppliers of specialist yeasts, hops and malt etc.

All that said, I now choose not to go out on a Friday or Saturday night due to the disturbances, fights and generally sickening behavior that some think is normal and even desirable to engage in. Hospital Casualty untits are awash with the afterevents of this behavior and has to be paid for by us all, even teetotallers so better to tax it, tax it and tax it again to pay for education on how to respect drink and how it affects us and, if anyone abuses it, make them pay for their own post-binge treatment.

Anyone for a small glass of elderflower champaign? :smilz38:

Your first point is a very good one, apparently all i would need to make a cider is pure fruit juice, sugar and yeast.

In regards to home distillation, there are several programmes on TV in which people have made their own wine or cider, are you sure that the restriction does not apply to 'for commercial purposes'.

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Think of the economic effects if you banned alcohol, just look at the duty and taxes we pay on alcohol as a whole. I'm not a fan of drugs and I retort at the idea of taking any, but I do enjoy a nice tipple and social evening with friends. My answer therefore is no, because the taxes contribute alot to community and alcohol sales is ALOT of economical finance. Manys a businness would go bust, more people out of work, etc. Yes, some people abuse it or cannot handle their drink and do themselves and others harm, but I'm not one of these people and so I shouldn't lose my time to let loose a bit because of the minority.

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Scotch alone is actually worth 2% of the Scottish economy.

The cost to the UK economy of alcohol is about 1% of GDP however the revenue contributes about 2% of UK GDP (hospitality industry as a whole).

Your first point is a very good one, apparently all i would need to make a cider is pure fruit juice, sugar and yeast.

In regards to home distillation, there are several programmes on TV in which people have made their own wine or cider, are you sure that the restriction does not apply to 'for commercial purposes'.

It is easier to say it's illegal. The min size of still permitted in this country is (I belive) 40 Gallons, it has to be licencensed and you have to pay Excise Duty on anything you produce. Hooch production for personal consumption is dangerous, both for health (methanol) and 'because it's very easy to blow yourself and your neighbours up. It can however be done but the if you are caught the penalties are quite severe. Attempt to sell it and you would probably end up spending more than one Christmas at HM's Pleasure.

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I doubt very much that would be the case. Just remember the americans tried this in the 20s and 30s, that didn't work too well if I remember my 20th Century history. Alcohol was banned but people still had the same problems. It seems that the only difference was you bought it off the black market, directly funding organised crime rather than legitimate off licences/pubs which paid taxes.

Capone and other mafioso bosses spring to mind. Instead of purifying American society, it corrupted it. It made gangsters look good amongst the public for providing the speakeasies and people paid high prices for the alcohol. a lot of people in prominent positions supped with these people. I remember reading a police chief in one American city believed a lot of his officers were involved in some form of bootlegging. It was a disaster.

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Well if it was controlled in the same way any other drug is we wouldn't have problems with drunks building pressure on NHS & Emergency Service resources every weekend, drunken louts at football matches, disfunctional/anti-social families and behaviour, continuing health problems faced by millions who continue to drink, and many more issues with excessive drinking.

Limitation is where it's at, but also the legalisation of Cannabis aswell in providing an alternative to the violence alcohol brings. I'm truly a believer of the Bill Hicks philosophy of legalising Cannabis and having the governments cashing in on the tax & merch revenue it would bring. This would solve our budget deficit by at least 15% overnight with added benefits for allowing farming to grow natural herbalised plants to sell onwards to the pharma industry.

What benefits does alcohol give in comparison?

One problem with this theory, as much as I love Bill Hicks. People would grow their own and what once was drug dealers becomes shop owners?! Then we have the non-smoking community who'd not be too happy and of course anti-smoking campaigns and cancer will increase. Doesn't matter what decision is made, alot will disagree still.

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I think alcohol should be banned in public my opinion, it is one of the biggest problems in this country where people just can't handle it, in most other countries most people are more sensible with alcohol and treat it as a social and happy exercise rather than just to get a drunk as you can like in Britain, if I was to be banned, think about people like the police, NHS and others who fork out millions to deal with drunk and voilent people every week-end, plus the goverment wouldn't have to spend near as much on adding police to areas near pubs or dealing with vandlism damage.

I understand that some people can handle it without getting carried away and enjoy it as an activity but should only stay in their houses and not out on the public streets, besides it's like the law not allowing under 18s into certain clubs or to drink in public just because some let the side down, some people under 18 are sensible and would still keep it cool with the alcohol in public, but is still banned under 18s, so why are over 18s allowed it? strongly for the ban!

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If they do i shall just start brewing my own beer and distilling my own whisky, wont be as nice as the Glenfiddich 18yr old single malt i will be having in an hour or 2 time but a hell of a lot cheaper!

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No leave us drunks alone.

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No of course not that would be insane. Yes it definitely causes no end of health and social problems (much more so than nearly all the illegal drugs) but banning it won't stop people having it.

Like other drugs it would simply move to an illegal distribution market where quality would be uncontrolled and so cause even more health problems. Essentially you'd end up with the same problems you currently have with illegal drugs where the prohibition of the substance is considerably more dangerous than the substance itself.

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If alcohol never existed and today someone discovered it and tried to make it legal then they would have no chance.

Toxic, bad for your health, causes no end of social problems.

I totally agree. It would be a Class B controlled substance at the very least if it were discovered today but it's existed and been consumed for thousands of years.

I have close personal experience of the damage and devistation caused by alcohol including DEATH directly atributable to it's abuse. Anyone who says an alcoholic has brought the problem on themselves and deserves to die has absolutley no comprehension at all of the problems of addictive toxic substance abuse. I have also seen the mayhem caused by a drunk driver ruining a number of innocent persons lives forever..

Unless we can change human biology so we never crave highs, whether that be from chocolate or nicotine, there are always going to be people that fall prey to addiction, abuse or irresponsible consumption.

But would I ban it today? No .. it would go underground and cause much more problems.

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