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Spring Snowfall


leicsnow

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Is anyone hoping for some wintry surprises the coming Spring?

Personally I never really noticed we had as much and will be looking out :p

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

There definitely seems to be some link between milder first part of winter to colder second half/spring and vice versa. I know some people like Mr Data don't believe in seasonal patterns but what does everyone else think?

Winter 07/08 was very mild in December but the two most potent snowfalls of that winter occured in March and April.

Winter 05/06 wasn't too bad but the best bit by far came in March.

Winter 10/11 had a very cold late November and December but a mild February and warm Spring.

Edited by Tellow
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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

There definitely seems to be some link between milder first part of winter to colder second half/spring and vice versa. I know some people like Mr Data don't believe in seasonal patterns but what does everyone else think?

Winter 07/08 was very mild in December but the two most potent snowfalls of that winter occured in March and April.

Winter 05/06 wasn't too bad but the best bit by far came in March.

Winter 10/11 had a very cold late November and December but a mild February and warm Spring.

Every winter sets its own patterns Tellow, but yes, you could say that by having a mild half to two thirds of a winter could mean that we could have used up our mild quota for the winter and perhaps resulting in cooler weather in the early parts of Spring. But realisticly, you don't need a mild, bad winter for snow in Spring, the early part of the season is hardly different to late winter and we tend to get cold snaps every Spring because it really is the norm.

Spring 2008 did have snowfalls but where I am it wasn't as good as March 2011, but of course March 2006 saw my greatest ever snowfall. Excluding the battleground snowfall of 2006, really those cold spells weren't all that signifcant or unusual and during exceptional cold spells, -20C can still be possible in the highlands.

March in Scotland may not exactly see the most snowfalls of the winter, but it can see the largest snowfalls such as March 2011 (two feet in the highlands), March 2010 (two to three feet in the highlands) and 2006 (a foot in many areas). In a mild winter, March may see the best snowfall of the winter but really it doesn't always turn out all that special.

What interests me about Spring wintry weather is:

Whether you can get a big freeze like November 2010 during March (if November could have it, why not March)?

And are Battleground Snowfalls in April possible?

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Every winter sets its own patterns Tellow, but yes, you could say that by having a mild half to two thirds of a winter could mean that we could have used up our mild quota for the winter and perhaps resulting in cooler weather in the early parts of Spring. But realisticly, you don't need a mild, bad winter for snow in Spring, the early part of the season is hardly different to late winter and we tend to get cold snaps every Spring because it really is the norm.

Spring 2008 did have snowfalls but where I am it wasn't as good as March 2011, but of course March 2006 saw my greatest ever snowfall. Excluding the battleground snowfall of 2006, really those cold spells weren't all that signifcant or unusual and during exceptional cold spells, -20C can still be possible in the highlands.

March in Scotland may not exactly see the most snowfalls of the winter, but it can see the largest snowfalls such as March 2011 (two feet in the highlands), March 2010 (two to three feet in the highlands) and 2006 (a foot in many areas). In a mild winter, March may see the best snowfall of the winter but really it doesn't always turn out all that special.

What interests me about Spring wintry weather is:

Whether you can get a big freeze like November 2010 during March (if November could have it, why not March)?

And are Battleground Snowfalls in April possible?

Indeed Spring snowfall seems to be far more common than Autumn snowfall, and in particular April has more potential than October.

I didn't get anything in March this year, but my location benefitted greatly from March 2006 and to a lesser extent the Easter easterly in 2008. 6th April 2008 gave me more than the latter (and the Easter that year was in March, so before that). I'm not surprised that -20C is still possible in the Highlands in March, because the cooled oceans can deliver relatively low minima in that month (even though there seems to be more variation between maxima and minima as winter progresses and we head into Spring, and daytime temperatures tend to pick up more in the sun).

In regards to whether a March scenario could compare to November 2010, I think the main flaw would be the stronger sun allowing temperatures in the day to pick up, even though November and March are seasonal equivalents in that November is the last month of autumn and the month before winter and March is the first month of Spring and the month after winter. In my experience March generally has lower minimum temperatures than November but higher maximum. Also, most late season snowfalls for my latitude and altitude tend to happen overnight, with a flaw following in the day but then a reload again at night, as seen for me in late February/early March 2005 which repeated for almost two weeks.

Also, I have on average about one day with snow falling in each April, and lying snow is generally not that uncommon. 6th April 2008 definitely proved that with lying snow as far south as London. To see snow in May for me is extremely rare (and almost unheard of in June), although I expect there is a little potential in May for yourself.

Edited by Tellow
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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

Indeed Spring snowfall seems to be far more common than Autumn snowfall, and in particular April has more potential than October.

In regards to whether a March scenario could compare to November 2010, I think the main flaw would be the stronger sun allowing temperatures in the day to pick up, even though November and March are seasonal equivalents in that November is the last month of autumn and the month before winter and March is the first month of Spring and the month after winter. In my experience March generally has lower minimum temperatures than November but higher maximum. Also, most late season snowfalls for my latitude and altitude tend to happen overnight, with a flaw following in the day but then a reload again at night, as seen for me in late February/early March 2005 which repeated for almost two weeks.

Also, I have on average about one day with snow falling in each April, and lying snow is generally not that uncommon. 6th April 2008 definitely proved that with lying snow as far south as London. To see snow in May for me is extremely rare (and almost unheard of in June), although I expect there is a little potential in May for yourself.

Lol, even May has even more potential for snow than October - last year just outside Glasgow I had a light snow flurry just after my birthday which saw plus 20C temps.

The sun does make an impact on some factors but really March is overall a colder and snowier month than November, the arctic and parts of NH would be at it's coldest in March, the sea would be cold and it's just..... colder in March I suppose so if synoptics turned out right I would imagine that in early March we could still some really potent winter weather.

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Posted
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
  • Weather Preferences: Continental winters & summers.
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset

By April, snow is pretty hopeless in this part of the world unless you're on the Mendips. However, at the turn of the century there were three consecutive snowy Aprils with 4cm, 8cm and 2cm respectively:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/1998/Rrea00119980412.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/1999/Rrea00119990414.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/2000/Rrea00120000404.gif

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Since the turn of the century I've had on average about 1 snowfall each April, and lying snow isn't particularly uncommon even for me in the Midlands.

Edited by Tellow
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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

I do find it interesting how many of the members down south tend to have a snowfall every April whereas where I am, I have only really seen one or two Aprils with snow.

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Posted
  • Location: G.Manchester
  • Location: G.Manchester

I don't think any low land areas of the British Isles saw snow in April 2010 and certainly not 2007 and 2011.

Infact I don't think even the highest ground recieved snowfall in either 2007 or 2011.

Edited by Optimus Prime
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Posted
  • Location: Near Heathrow, London
  • Weather Preferences: Mediterranean climates (Valencia is perfect)
  • Location: Near Heathrow, London

April snowfall here is definitely not common. I would say it's probably more common than November here, but November is still rare for snow.

Someone above said that they see March as late winter, I definitely see March as Spring here, even the second half of February in recent years. March is the time when a sunny day can start to be warm instead of cold.

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Posted
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
  • Weather Preferences: Continental winters & summers.
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset

I suppose it all depends on airmass. At least the first third of March 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2009 felt like a continuation of winter, as well as most of March 2001, 2006 and 2010. On the contrary, March 2002, 2007 and 2011 were both quite springlike bar a few colder days.

I think if we've had to put up with a mild December, it's only fair we received at least one or two snowfalls in March.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

I don't think any low land areas of the British Isles saw snow in April 2010 and certainly not 2007 and 2011.

Infact I don't think even the highest ground recieved snowfall in either 2007 or 2011.

The 1st day of April 2010 saw some low land lying snow.

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Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl

The first half of March in many recent years notably 2010, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2001, 1996 and 1995 has delivered snowy cold weather. The arctic is at its coldest in early March and SST's are at there coldest, so a northerly or northeasterly in the first half of March will be every bit as cold as one in Jan or Feb and will beat a northerly in Dec hands down. Good examples are the northerlies of early March 2001, 2004 and 2006 where the highlands saw temps fall close to or below -15 degrees.

Easter 2008 was notably snowy and cold.

April can deliver cold northerlies with heavy snow showers, but the sun's strength makes it difficult to retain snow cover during the day. A notably cold snowy spell came in late April 1981 a remarkable lengthy cold snowy period indeed.

As for battleground snowfalls in spring, most tend to occur in March when the continent is still very cold. I remember the March 96 and 06 battleground snowfalls.

May snowfall has been rare in recent years, temps were cold enough in 2010 for snow at night, however, we didn't see any. Last time was May 97 which came on the back of a snowless March and April - proving you can't rule out the white stuff until mid May at the earliest.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

It's amazing how much of the public consider February a Spring month. A lot of people I talk to would say "February is the end of winter getting into Spring". Considering March can do better than December is many certain set-ups says it all.

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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

It's amazing how much of the public consider February a Spring month. A lot of people I talk to would say "February is the end of winter getting into Spring". Considering March can do better than December is many certain set-ups says it all.

It's perception! Before 2009, everyone was considering March to become a winter month and December to become part of Autumn.

But if you look at it, it seems that nobody is happy here.

For example:

EVENT = SNOW IN DECEMBER, COLDEST DECEMBER IN X YEARS; REACTION = WINTER ENDED BEFORE THE NEW YEAR, WINTER STARTS AFTER XMAS

February, sun too strong for cold and snow? I think our coldest ever weather has happened in February and we've had more classic cold spells and snow falls in February rather than December.

However, there are some people on here who are dreaming of (and always are) a tasty beasterly in February. For me, well If there is the Beast From the East, then it better be the type of the Forth-Clyde Streamer we got in November last year rather than a January 1987 event, because Scandi HIs don't bring snow to the north. A greenie hi for me please!

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Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl

It's perception! Before 2009, everyone was considering March to become a winter month and December to become part of Autumn.

But if you look at it, it seems that nobody is happy here.

For example:

EVENT = SNOW IN DECEMBER, COLDEST DECEMBER IN X YEARS; REACTION = WINTER ENDED BEFORE THE NEW YEAR, WINTER STARTS AFTER XMAS

February, sun too strong for cold and snow? I think our coldest ever weather has happened in February and we've had more classic cold spells and snow falls in February rather than December.

However, there are some people on here who are dreaming of (and always are) a tasty beasterly in February. For me, well If there is the Beast From the East, then it better be the type of the Forth-Clyde Streamer we got in November last year rather than a January 1987 event, because Scandi HIs don't bring snow to the north. A greenie hi for me please!

Back in the 80's and 90's if you asked most people in the south at least when to expect most snow the majority would have said February. The last two winters have skewed people's perceptions of February. Yes the sun may be stronger but the atlantic is also alot weaker in Feb than Dec and Jan - high pressure tends to influence the country much more in Feb than Dec and consequently it often sees many more frosty nights than December. I always expect much more of Feb than December in terms of cold and snow.

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

The most ideal synoptics for a substantial cold snowy spell in March in the Tyne and Wear/Durham/Northumberland area are much the same as what we saw during the 24th November to 2nd December 2010. The Arctic is at its coldest in late February/early March and, while polar continental air increasingly translates to dry cloudy weather as we head into spring, an easterly with a "northerly" source tends to give a mix of sunshine and heavy snow showers well into spring, as was demonstrated on the 1st/2nd and 17th/18th March 2001. (In fact, I remember a mix of sunshine and sharp rain/hail showers from a north-easterly sourced over Scandinavia as late in the season as the 16th-18th May 1996). Furthermore, looking at long-term averages, such synoptics are statistically more likely to happen in March than in November or early December.

If the synoptics of 24th November-2nd December 2010 were to be repeated during the 1st-9th March 2012, chances are the first three days of the spell would give overnight accumulations of snow, and perhaps in heavier daytime showers, but also afternoon thaws in any sunshine with maxima of 3-5C. Subsequent days, with the -10C 850hPa temperatures encroaching from the NE, would probably see maxima struggling at 0-2C with minimal thaws despite the strong sun. The increased thaws caused by sunshine may well end up at least offset by greater accumulation rates during snow showers (especially overnight) due to the lower SSTs in the North Sea.

I should probably stop discussing this as I find myself getting quite excited even at the thought of such a setup occurring in early March 2012 (lol). The nearest approach in the past 40 years was probably the north-easterly snowstorm in mid-March 1979 which gave a whopping 46cm at Newcastle.

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Posted
  • Location: N.E. Scotland South Side Moray Firth 100m asl
  • Location: N.E. Scotland South Side Moray Firth 100m asl

April 1968 was the best spring snow I can remember and with the frequency of northerly and easterly winds highest in the spring and early summer here we can often have more snow falling in the spring than the winter.The sea has finally cooled to its lowest temperture and a northerly still has a potent source of cold to draw from in the arctic.And of course from an IMBY perspective it does not have to travel to far and bingo we have winter in spring with occasionaly sub zero days even in April .

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

The early part of 1968 was also a classic case of spring switch-arounds- there was an exceptional warm spell at the end of March 1968, then those cold northerlies in early April which lasted for about five days and gave widespread maxima of 3-5C for a time, and then after the northerly the weather became dry, sunny and quite warm with high pressure.

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Posted
  • Location: Derbyshire Peak District. 290 mts a.s.l.
  • Weather Preferences: Anything extreme
  • Location: Derbyshire Peak District. 290 mts a.s.l.

When it snowed in mid-June 2011, was that on or around the 12th June as that day was pretty cool (although not to the point that it snowed) where I live. Also, can you provide a link?

Also, my grandmother remembers the snow you mentioned in June 1975, she reckons a week later it was scorching, people were sunbathing with snow still on the ground!

Your grandmother is right on one count, it was hot and sunny about a week after the early June snowfall but there definitely wasn't any lying snow by that time. The lying snow lasted only a few hours in Buxton and until part way through the following morning above about 500m.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Your grandmother is right on one count, it was hot and sunny about a week after the early June snowfall but there definitely wasn't any lying snow by that time. The lying snow lasted only a few hours in Buxton and until part way through the following morning above about 500m.

I've thought that too, having looked at the weather records since making that post. She must be either exaggerating or *gulp* lying. :rofl:

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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

I've thought that too, having looked at the weather records since making that post. She must be either exaggerating or *gulp* lying. :rofl:

sunbathing with snow on the ground! she was pulling your leg!

anyway, what's with the *gulp* lying. nothing wrong about not always telling the truth. Oh look, there's a bartlett! a rapturous response from the model thread.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Now it's a bit nearer the time, how do you think the potential currently stands for snowy weather this upcoming Spring?

Edited by Tellow
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  • 1 year later...
Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

I'm interested if there was a set up in March similar to that of November 2010, would March be more severe than November or is March more likely to get severe winter weather? You know we had a "Big Freeze" in an Autumnal month that sees less snow than March. I would be interested to see what a Spring big freeze would be like.

It's fascinating looking back at these threads. I wonder how many would have believed that within 3 years, we would have experienced such a remarkable March for cold and snow. March 2013 is one for the memory. Edited by Weather-history
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