The Winter emotions and moaning thread

[Summer of 95]

Winter. What winter? Frosty nights woohoo, that's April weather! February 1996 was a massive letdown (about 6cm snow here with 15cm 10 miles away) but at least that month had some lying snow. February 2012 is fast overtaking 2009/10 when it comes to snowing everywhere but here. Like Telford, Manchester, Birmingham, er, Rome....

[johnholmes]

The last 12 days is my ideal for winter; 10 days or so with a mean of zero C or a bit below, snow on a couple of occasions, sharp frosts, some sunny days and snow remaining in the shade on branches of trees. This one delivered with only an ice day missing.

Anything longer than 10 days at a time and life gets tedious with ice on pavements etc.

Of course December and January had none of this but what the heck-its past now and nowt' anyone can do about that.

I am sorry not all parts of the UK did not have snow and frost_.

[SnowObsessor90]

Well consesensus seems to be from the models and board members is that winter is now indeed over which bête the question why am even still here?

I guess I'm just clueless deluded fool who keeps coming back for more punishment lol.

[Peter H]

The last 12 days is my ideal for winter; 10 days or so with a mean of zero C or a bit below, snow on a couple of occasions, sharp frosts, some sunny days and snow remaining in the shade on branches of trees. This one delivered with only an ice day missing.

Anything longer than 10 days at a time and life gets tedious with ice on pavements etc.

Of course December and January had none of this but what the heck-its past now and nowt' anyone can do about that.

I am sorry not all parts of the UK did not have snow and frost_.

Sadly John, nothing remotely cold in this part of the UK last week.

As you say, a boring week to come.

Interestingly, high pressure to the west should give us cold weather but this one is quite unusual. The source of the air is actually way, way south with it coming up and over the high so really quite a mild set up, and maximum tempts. fairly uniform over the UK at around +8C, which is quite strange.

For me, winter has all but gone. Far too late for snow to lie for any length of time now, and only about 5 weeks until the spring equinox, so that's it for another year, bar the shouting.

Been a real rotten one this time and well up with the truly bad winters e.g. 1974/75 and 2006/2007. Snowless and virtually frost free.

Hopefully, this isn't the start of a trend and 2012/13 delivers something a bit better but I'm not optomistic. I get the distinct feeling that winter 2009/2010 and December 2010 were just a flash in the pan.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Peter H

[Aaron]

The last 12 days is my ideal for winter; 10 days or so with a mean of zero C or a bit below, snow on a couple of occasions, sharp frosts, some sunny days and snow remaining in the shade on branches of trees. This one delivered with only an ice day missing.

Anything longer than 10 days at a time and life gets tedious with ice on pavements etc.

Of course December and January had none of this but what the heck-its past now and nowt' anyone can do about that.

I am sorry not all parts of the UK did not have snow and frost_.

If the UK started dealing with snow more efficiently such as clearing snow off pavements before it freezes, life would not become tedious and we'd just continue like normal. I stayed in Canada during a very snowy winter and it was nice to be able to enjoy the snow while going out and about without slipping on ice - I'm sure many more people in the UK would enjoy snow rather then see it as a nuisance if it was handled a bit better

[Thundery wintry showers]

I think people probably would enjoy snow more if it was dealt with better- the problem is that as a country characterised by generally mild winters we don't feel compelled to spend significant resources into making snowy spells less disruptive and inconvenient. I would reference the economic crisis but I think we don't prepare well for cold snowy spells regardless of how good or bad the economy is.

A lot of the icy problems around my area tend to stem either from pavements being trampled on, compacting and melting the snow which then refreezes, or half-baked gritting/salting which provides short-term relief for those on foot but makes things worse in the long-term, as the snow partially melts then refreezes leaving ice. However ice cannot always be prevented- when we get rain falling on top of snow or the dewpoints nudging above zero initiating partial thaws we tend to get ice en-masse anyway (this happened in the York/Leeds district on the 4th December 2010 for example).

[Peter H]

I think people probably would enjoy snow more if it was dealt with better- the problem is that as a country characterised by generally mild winters we don't feel compelled to spend significant resources into making snowy spells less disruptive and inconvenient. I would reference the economic crisis but I think we don't prepare well for cold snowy spells regardless of how good or bad the economy is.

A lot of the icy problems around my area tend to stem either from pavements being trampled on, compacting and melting the snow which then refreezes, or half-baked gritting/salting which provides short-term relief for those on foot but makes things worse in the long-term, as the snow partially melts then refreezes leaving ice. However ice cannot always be prevented- when we get rain falling on top of snow or the dewpoints nudging above zero initiating partial thaws we tend to get ice en-masse anyway (this happened in the York/Leeds district on the 4th December 2010 for example).

When I was young they gritted side roads/side streets immidiately snow fell, not just the main routes. When did this policy change ?

That's partly what cuases a little bit of snow to be such a major problem in the UK.

[johnholmes]

we have to accept that our winters are not like in the Alps, or inland in the major regions, ie Canada where snow falls and ice is not a major problem for much of the winter. Freezing thawing and refreezing will always cause problems. Even in the Alps it does, at least for predstrians. In Wengen and adjoining areas you NEVER ever see salt applied. Once the snow has finished falling and the ploughs have been out, roads and pavements cleared, then the gritter follows, quite good for preventing slipping be it either ones feet or transport wheels on roads. Makes a hell of a mess of carpets though. When it thaws, the ploughs go out on the roads etc, clear them along with lorries to put the snow in which is then tipped down steep slopes not used, then the gritter comes round. This time as a sweeper, takes it to just below the station where its tipped into huge containers, washed and re used!

Edited February 13, 2012 by johnholmes

[November13]

It's been a particularly crapp winter in Scotland. Nae snow in Jan or Feb so far! Only cosmetic snow in December. No big freezes either....a lot of wee frees though! (You might only get that if you are Scottish). However there is no point in getting upset nothing we can do about nature. I have accepted this given that it is now mid Feb and getting lighter every night. Next year will be better!

Still all to play for for Scotland's mountains though...late snowfall for the skiiing that sometimes happens!

[A Winter's Tale]

It's been a particularly crapp winter in Scotland. Nae snow in Jan or Feb so far! Only cosmetic snow in December. No big freezes either....a lot of wee frees though! (You might only get that if you are Scottish). However there is no point in getting upset nothing we can do about nature. I have accepted this given that it is now mid Feb and getting lighter every night. Next year will be better!

Still all to play for for Scotland's mountains though...late snowfall for the skiiing that sometimes happens!

Not for all of Scotland

[November13]

Yeh I know you had some snow in December but be honest it can't be described as a good winter if there is no snow in the coldest months i.e Jan/Feb. Was there a major snow event at any time widespread and disruptive? We usually get at least one in Jan. I have a snow shovel which has not been touched. Fair play I could have used it two days in December but the snow was so light it was gone in 2 days. The state of the ski slopes tells you everything you need to know about this winter.

"This Scottish ski season has been rather poor thus far, in contrast to everywhere else in Europe, so hopefully things will take a turn for the better sooner rather than later" ( A bit like our general winter).Ski Club

[A Winter's Tale]

Also, I'd like to elaborate that a cold winter with little snow could be seen as equally as disapointing as a snowy winter with little cold.

Winter isn't all about snow, both cold and snow are the elements that we should base our analysis on. We need a balance of both cold and snow in a winter and for me, I've had an excellent period of snowin December and hardly a snowless January (except for the lack of a notable event) and cold wise, December was pretty good and 2nd half of January and 1st half of February have been excellent. As far as I'm concerned, I've had the best of both which makes me happy in having the very much wintry, crisp, sunny cold weather that I love and would expect to see in winter aswell as the ultimate pleasure of having not one (which would be good enough for any winter) but two excellent snow events with lying snow lasting for days. So two examples of my favourite winter weather type - great snow events and lying snow plus a lot of cold, sunny weather makes for an all in all ideal winter and more than satisfactory - similar to 08/09 and continues my run in decent winters so I'm very happy despite the fact that we had a very mild period between late December and mid January and the lack of lying snow in January.

And also, winter is not always about the type of weather we get, it's about it's effect on culture, the envoironment, biology and astronomy.

And, if you are just a snow-fan and not a real fan of proper winter weather (which I am although snow is my preferance and I'm delighted to say that I've had two helpings of my goal for snow this winter plus good grades for cold weather - another, yet very true example as to what winter is) then we've potentially got one other decent snowfall left for February AND we've got the wintry elemet of Spring to look forward to aswell!

[A Winter's Tale]

Yeh I know you had some snow in December but be honest it can't be described as a good winter if there is no snow in the coldest months i.e Jan/Feb. Was there a major snow event at any time widespread and disruptive? We usually get at least one in Jan. I have a snow shovel which has not been touched. Fair play I could have used it two days in December but the snow was so light it was gone in 2 days. The state of the ski slopes tells you everything you need to know about this winter.

December was very distruptive at times in the Glasgow area - 4th December in particular. And by the way, December is my favourite time to get snow which makes me even happier.

I know that January missed out on a decent snow event, but hey, it was hardly snowless and better than around 15 winter months since I can remember. My goal was to get a decent flavour of winter weather with a taste of cold, crisp weather and a fair number of days with snowfall and to top it off - one good snow event with lying snow. The result, a very snowy December, a satisfactory January for snowfall days so good on the snowfall front, a good December for cold and a fantastic mid January and February for cold (better than quite a few winters - 06/07 come nothing near to the cold of this winter) and to put the cherry on the contented cake, two very good snow events in December with two spell of good lying snow each lasting to around 3/4 days each.

I'm happy - but perhaps I won't be completely happy until all of the fellow Kilted Thread members get a decent snow event and this could happen all the way up to April but I'm afraid that next weekend we may all be joining in with the fun!

[January Snowstorm]

I think we learn something after every Winter. What I learnt this year was the following:

1) Longe range forecasts face many hurdles. Even with huge effort put in they can easily fall by the wayside.

2) In contrary to above the Met Office's medium term outlook has improved a lot. It's been very accurate this year, much like last year was.

3) Strat warming is fickle as regards it's effect on Winter. It helps the overall forecasting but is not the 'be all and end all'

Now for the rant

It's been the worst Winter in my 37 years that I can remember here in Ireland.

Worst as in no decent cold spell, no decent storms, & almost total lack of sunshine.

Indeed i'd say it was the lack of sun kept the daffodils at bay for so long (which by the way are now in full bloom!)

[conor123]

This has definately been one of the most boring uneventful winters I can remember here, up there with the 2007-2008 winter.

It seems that since January 2011 now it's been almost relentless slate grey skies with nothing much happening, I don't think ive seen the sun once this week...

[Eugene]

I guess you missed out on the extreme cold i enjoyed in the first half of February conor and it was defintely not boring with last saturday giving an ice day with strong sunshine and clear blue skies dawn to dusk, also a few days of snowfall for some also, the amount of visitors to this site in the period was almost the highest i think since its been open.

Outside of that and a three to four day very cold snap in mid January yes i would agree its been an awful winter with nothing much on the horizon to look forward to, but to say its been 100% pants is just incorrect.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Eugene

[damianslaw]

I'd like to get a bow and arrow and balst the wretched PV to smithereens and the azores high which have largely ruined this winter - next winter will be better.

[Bottesford]

Going against the grain I've found this winter to be one of my favourites to be honest.

We've had an absolute ton of sunshine with even greyer periods like this weak featuring at least some sunny periods or brightness. There have been few days where I've not seen the sun all day. Some winters we'll not see the sun in 2 weeks or more!

Cold has been lacking certainly although this has done wonders for my heating bills and made travelling around at Christmas so so so much easier.

Then we had our proper cold snap and got the best snowfall we've had in years - much better than anything 2010 delivered. It was then sparkling sunshine afterwards making things look lovely - and on a Sunday so it could be properly enjoyed instead of endured like in the working week.

Since then it's been pretty uneventful but at least temperatures have either been proper cold or fairly mild. We've not had too much of the not quite anything temperatures in the 4-6c range - too cold to feel pleasant but too mild for anything wintry.

Only thing I'd change is to see more in the way of cold & frost in early to mid December - essentially two cold snaps like we had in early Feb. Otherwise I'll bank this one - it's been great not feeling distant and disconnected from the sun as so often happens during the dark season.

[johnholmes]

I find it sad that the model thread is so full of cold needs and moans when Siberia or the Arctic is not delivered to the UK. Any normal person only has to look at the average temperatures, frost and snow statistics I would have thought to realise that severe cold and snow are not very often seen countrywide in the UK. Events like the 10 days in February will occur rather more often, perhaps more like 3-7 days, some will be easterly driven and some, more often, will be northerly driven, those who moan should stop it and move to a region where cold and snow is more likely instead of cluttering up a model discussion thread with moans about, 'dreadful' output from the models and similar. Its happening this morning-wonderful example of an Artic front progressing south and mostly moans in there about this and that not being what they want. Rare for me to sound off but it gets extremely tedious, no doubt it will soon be overtaken by moans about why are we not having summer of +30C every day with storms. Just why folk cannot simply enjoy the more interesting aspects of the weather each season is beyond me. We all have a preference during each season but if some applied the same principles to their general life styles which they seem to do to their weather preferences one shudders to think just what they are like as people.

tara-end of jh rant-it is the moaning thread after all and I have managed not to mention anyone by name although no doubt some with thin skins will get upset!

Edited February 18, 2012 by johnholmes

[Scorcher]

There is a lot to appreciate about this winter- it has not been all 'mild muck' as the coldies call it, despite predominantly mild temperatures. As Bottesford says, sunshine amounts have been unusually high in most areas for a mild winter and there haven't been too many of those dull, cold easterlies. I don't quite understand why very mild weather isn't also interesting to people, as extreme cold would be. Christmas Day 2011 was an amazing contrast to the previous year, seeing people sitting outside pubs in sunshine and 13C. I know that most of the people I was with appreciated the mildness far more than the freezing cold the year before!

[leicsnow]

There is a lot to appreciate about this winter- it has not been all 'mild muck' as the coldies call it, despite predominantly mild temperatures. As Bottesford says, sunshine amounts have been unusually high in most areas for a mild winter and there haven't been too many of those dull, cold easterlies. I don't quite understand why very mild weather isn't also interesting to people, as extreme cold would be. Christmas Day 2011 was an amazing contrast to the previous year, seeing people sitting outside pubs in sunshine and 13C. I know that most of the people I was with appreciated the mildness far more than the freezing cold the year before!

Although most people on this forum would probably prefer Christmas 2010 (including me)!

[Dorsetbred]

There is a lot to appreciate about this winter- it has not been all 'mild muck' as the coldies call it, despite predominantly mild temperatures. As Bottesford says, sunshine amounts have been unusually high in most areas for a mild winter and there haven't been too many of those dull, cold easterlies. I don't quite understand why very mild weather isn't also interesting to people, as extreme cold would be. Christmas Day 2011 was an amazing contrast to the previous year, seeing people sitting outside pubs in sunshine and 13C. I know that most of the people I was with appreciated the mildness far more than the freezing cold the year before!

Living in an area where the over 70's are more than the the younger generation, you can hear the resounding cries of "Whoopeee it's all over no more chance of snow or cold weather".

That's a UK winter, I'm not moaning it's fact, so let's move on, as seasons always do.

I'm still in shorts & T's, and have only managed one weekend so far when it's been cold enough not to be in shorts & T's down here(I have to wear grown up clothes in the week "

Edited February 18, 2012 by Dorsetbred

[Eugene]

I've come to the realisation that winters 9 out of 10 will be mostly mild windy affairs, january isnt a good month for cold at all anymore with a very active jet most likely, december can deliver cold like dec 2010 showed but even this month apart from the second half very rarely gives proper cold, that leaves us with february and the two week freeze showed that this is the most likely month for cold synoptics nowadays but can easily switch to a much milder pattern.

The best season and always will be for winter synoptics is spring, that is the season to expect good winter synoptics whether you think its too late or not.

I feel much better i am not kidding myself anymore

[Evening thunder]

There is a lot to appreciate about this winter- it has not been all 'mild muck' as the coldies call it, despite predominantly mild temperatures. As Bottesford says, sunshine amounts have been unusually high in most areas for a mild winter and there haven't been too many of those dull, cold easterlies. I don't quite understand why very mild weather isn't also interesting to people, as extreme cold would be. Christmas Day 2011 was an amazing contrast to the previous year, seeing people sitting outside pubs in sunshine and 13C. I know that most of the people I was with appreciated the mildness far more than the freezing cold the year before!

I'd guess it's partly to do with the fact that in the months before and after winter you get lots of the temps that would be 'very mild' in winter, and also in winter they often don't have that much weather with them (can often be cloudy), whereas a severe cold spell can only happen in winter really and can be quite spectacular, look stunning or even dramatic with heavy convective snow, or blizzards, or record low temps.

None the less if we get very mild temps this week i.e 15C with sunshine on Thursday I will certainly find it interesting.

Living in an area where the over 70's are more than the the younger generation, you can hear the resounding cries of "Whoopeee it's all over no more chance of snow or cold weather".

That's a UK winter, I'm not moaning it's fact, so let's move on, as seasons always do.

I'm still in shorts & T's, and have only managed one weekend so far when it's been cold enough not to be in shorts & T's down here(I have to wear grown up clothes in the week "

Blimey you must be tough.. I don't tend to wear shorts and a T-shirt out until the temp gets towards 20C at least. It would feel a bit chilly at 9C breezy and cloudy with shorts on. I went to Bournemouth to see Snow Patrol play on the 8th Feb, and it was -1C, cloudy with a bit of a breeze, not exactly shorts weather.

Mind you, not as tough as someone I saw Christmas day 2010. It was -14C, the coldest here for ages, I was down by the freezing over river taking photos, there was that 'diamond dust' in the air, and a jogger went by wearing shorts and I think just a T-shirt. I do not joke.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Many good points by John above. For whatever reasons most of the issues covered are particularly prominent in the Model Output Discussion thread, and less so in other areas of the forum, and I maintain a view that it puts many of the more "all-round" weather enthusiasts off from posting in there. I can only think it's some kind of clique that has evolved in there over time, as while the weather preferences are not unusual in themselves the one-dimensional nature of them (either snow or dross) certainly is. Philip Eden referenced this in an interview that he had in the early days of Netweather, pointing out that although he is a snow and thunderstorm nut like many others, he can find at least something of interest in the weather on most days, and that pinning interest only in one type of weather means disappointment for most of the time. The sudden seasonal "switches" that I sometimes lament about (from cold bias to warm bias in early March and vice versa in October) also reflect the one-dimensional nature of the MOD.

As for this winter in Tyneside I missed out on the snow earlier this month, and with the Pennines taking most of the sting out of the Atlantic-driven stuff, on the whole it's been pretty benign and un-memorable, but I would stop well short of calling it "dross"- that's a term that I would be inclined to reserve for months like December 2002. We had some Atlantic gales in December, an unexpected snowfall on the 16th December, an anticyclonic spell mid-January with stunning sunsets, and January in particular was exceptionally sunny here. I also remember that rare combination of sunshine and notable mild temperatures on the 22nd December.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Thundery wintry showers