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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: NH7256
  • Weather Preferences: where's my vote?
  • Location: NH7256
    6 hours ago, mountain shadow said:

    Apologies for mixing the two up, these Eastern Europeans are all the same to me ;-)

    And they won't have to veto Scotland's "re entry" to the EU as we wont have left in the first place.

    Slovenia is in the Balkans, not Eastern Europe. You're as bad as the bloody English!  :D

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: NH7256
  • Weather Preferences: where's my vote?
  • Location: NH7256
    2 hours ago, scottish skier said:

    Turkeys, Christmas.

     

    Interesting to read an account of his speech - he said the square root of diddly squat.  2 months in and all the Brexiteers are still hiding. mongoosewits.

    I also read that a quarter of people in Britain have considered leaving the country since the ref.  It didn't give a country by country breakdown though, not quite how it defined 'leaving the country'.  I wonder how many interpretation there are.

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    Posted
  • Location: The Garden of England
  • Weather Preferences: A large kack of heavy cloud
  • Location: The Garden of England
    3 minutes ago, Hairy Celt said:

    Interesting to read an account of his speech - he said the square root of diddly squat.  2 months in and all the Brexiteers are still hiding. mongoosewits.

    I also read that a quarter of people in Britain have considered leaving the country since the ref.  It didn't give a country by country breakdown though, not quite how it defined 'leaving the country'.  I wonder how many interpretation there are.

    Got a reference for that? A quarter seems absurdly high unless it counts people booking overseas holidays.

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    20 minutes ago, Dougal said:

    Got a reference for that? A quarter seems absurdly high unless it counts people booking overseas holidays.

     

    http://www.comresglobal.com/polls/bbc-5live-brexit-identity-poll/

    I'm one of the quarter; assuming Scotland votes to stay in some right wing isolationist Tory/UKIP inspired Brave New Britain that is.

    To be honest, the poll actually has been spun negatively in the sense the majority (in England at least) are positive so far about brexit prospects.

    However, I listened again to 'Brexit Street' on R4 on the way home and would have held my head in my hands if I wasn't driving. These folk have been crapped all over then duped, but not by the other 27 nations that are the EU. Nope, it's their own government that has done that. And they voted to put the latter in complete control...

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
    2 hours ago, scottish skier said:

    Turkeys, Christmas.

     

    They should have known better! They gambled on trusting the Tories, who have never given a damn about thier industry. 

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    Posted
  • Location: NH7256
  • Weather Preferences: where's my vote?
  • Location: NH7256
    1 hour ago, Dougal said:

    Got a reference for that? A quarter seems absurdly high unless it counts people booking overseas holidays.

     

    Yeah I'll give you a reference.  A couple more people in a hundred in the 4 nations voted to take a stupid leave in the dark to leave the EU, and about half the the rest could barely believe the stupidity of it all.  Hence wondering whether it was worth staying with the cretins who voted leave.  Simple really, not absurd in the least.

    Too fkn right I'm still bitter.

    I could go on like this all night but why bother :drunk:

    Edited by Hairy Celt
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    On 5 September 2016 at 21:34, Dougal said:

    Got a reference for that? A quarter seems absurdly high unless it counts people booking overseas holidays.

     

    Perhaps not so absurd. Having a fleeting thought of "I'll pack my bags and go and live in Italy" is a world away from actually doing it. I'm sure a quarter of people have thought about being an astronaut, does that mean we're all going to space? It's a throwaway question really, it means nothing. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
    Quote

    Holyrood's Economy Secretary Keith Brown has said the SNP government was "not obsessed" with holding a second independence referendum.

    He made the comment the day after First Minister Nicola Sturgeon presented her legislative plans for 2016-17 which included a Referendum Bill.

    Mr Brown told the BBC that it was right to prepare such a bill but there were "other options".

    However, Tory MSP Jackson Carlaw said independence was the SNP's "obsession".

    During an interview with BBC Radio Scotland's Good Morning Scotland programme, the Scottish Conservatives' deputy leader insisted the nationalist government was looking for an excuse to hold a second vote on independence.

    In a later interview on the radio programme, Mr Brown rejected the claim that the Holyrood administration was "obsessed" with an independence vote.

    He said: "I think six times yesterday Ruth Davidson spoke about an independence referendum - the first minister mentioned it once to say what we were doing."

    Mr Brown added: "Instead of answering questions about Brexit - the problems they [the Conservatives] visited upon the economy - they have got nothing to say about that and tried to hide the fact that they had nothing to say by constantly talking about independence referendums. They have got to start getting real.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37294992

    Unionist parties, you know, there's one sure fire way of halting a second Indy Ref, that's winning a majority at Holyrood. You don't even need to do it as a single party, just win enough seats between you to form a coalition. Can't manage that, then just shut the f up. It's not as if the Scottish electorate doesn't know exactly what the SNPs number one priority is after all.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Tories are obsessed with separatism. Scotland says a resounding No to it in June yet they're going to try and force it on people anyway.

    Why can't they just accept the result and get on with the day job.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    In order to win a possible 2nd referendum, Yes supporters must try and win over sufficient No voters to do so. Therefore I have spent the last week or so posting on No websites to try and persuade and inform.

    What has struck me, is not only how uninformed some No voters really are, but more worryingly there lack of interest in even getting informed.

    Every argument and discussion I had, I would refer to actual evidence to support it, yet when you ask some Unionists for evidence to support there few point, they cannot provide and simply resort to abuse. I had one guy insisting Nicola Sturgeon was ant--English who couldn't provide one shred of evidence to support and another guy who insists that the Scottish Parliament is not actually a Parliament, just because he says so.

    The question is therefore, how do you persuade those who don't want to be persuaded?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Panelbase November 2015 (so pre-brexit).

    Which of these statements is closest to your view?
    41% Scotland should definitely be an independent country
    28% I'm not convinced by the case for independence, but I'm not opposed to it on principle
    =69% Support or open to persuasion
    30% I would never vote for independence under any circumstances

    The main problem is on the web is that you tend to find people debating fall into the two end member groups.

    It's the 28% you need to talk to. Win over them and the union is finished. They've no love for it; they're Scottish before they're British.

    This is why No are so scared; their core vote is not that big. They need the votes of people who are not really on their side, and don't think indy is a bad thing in principle.

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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
    10 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

    In order to win a possible 2nd referendum, Yes supporters must try and win over sufficient No voters to do so. Therefore I have spent the last week or so posting on No websites to try and persuade and inform.

    What has struck me, is not only how uninformed some No voters really are, but more worryingly there lack of interest in even getting informed.

    Every argument and discussion I had, I would refer to actual evidence to support it, yet when you ask some Unionists for evidence to support there few point, they cannot provide and simply resort to abuse. I had one guy insisting Nicola Sturgeon was ant--English who couldn't provide one shred of evidence to support and another guy who insists that the Scottish Parliament is not actually a Parliament, just because he says so.

    The question is therefore, how do you persuade those who don't want to be persuaded?

    Why not tell them that 70 million Turks are about to invade? It clearly worked down here?:ninja:

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
    29 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

    Panelbase November 2015 (so pre-brexit).

    Which of these statements is closest to your view?
    41% Scotland should definitely be an independent country
    28% I'm not convinced by the case for independence, but I'm not opposed to it on principle
    =69% Support or open to persuasion
    30% I would never vote for independence under any circumstances

    The main problem is on the web is that you tend to find people debating fall into the two end member groups.

    It's the 28% you need to talk to. Win over them and the union is finished. They've no love for it; they're Scottish before they're British.

    This is why No are so scared; their core vote is not that big. They need the votes of people who are not really on their side, and don't think indy is a bad thing in principle.

    I know, but even though I'm engaging with the 30% who say they will never vote for independence, its their complete ignorance which I find frightening. I'll still keep plugging away though.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    So, what we've learned today about Brexit at PMQs.

    When will brexit negotations begin?
    Dunno

    Will the UK remain in the single market?
    Dunno

    What about freedom of movement?
    Dunno

    What about EU citizens already here?
    Dunno

    Do you know anything about anything? Have you even the remotest resemblance to a plan 2.5 months on?
    No

    That's competent governance by the UK for you!
     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Chortle.

    Quote

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pmqs-the-leader-of-the-opposition-gave-the-performance-of-his-life-a7230056.html

    PMQs: The Leader of the Opposition gave the performance of his life

    There’s no clear plan for Brexit, the government is on the ropes, and it showed

    Two months off and a complete transformation from the Leader of the Opposition. The Government’s in a mess. There’s no clear plan for Brexit. He knows it. The Prime Minister knows it and in he went.

    “This Government has had all summer to come up with a plan, to come up with a strategy, and so far we‘ve just had waffle,” he boomed.

    “Does she want the UK to remain fully within the single market? Yes or no.”

    Theresa May had no answer. “The right deal...a new relationship...seizing opportunities...we are respecting the views of the British people.”

    It wasn’t good enough and the Leader of the Opposition knew it. “I asked the Prime Minister a very simple question, and there’s a very simple answer, so let me ask it again. Does she want the United Kingdom to fully remain a part of the European single market. Yes or no?”

    You won’t be surprised to learn he didn’t get a one word answer. “The right honourable gentleman doesn’t seem to quite understand what the vote on the 23rd June was about. The United Kingdom will leave the European Union. It would not be right for me or this Government to give a running commentary on negotiations. We will seize the opportunities for growth and prosperity.”

    That a serving Prime Minister should deploy the “running commentary” defence at the despatch box, the standardised last resort of the professional question-dodger, is a low point on a scale not seen since Gordon Brown’s old claim to have “only been in the job three days”. (Indeed he had, but he’d had his eye on it 10 years.)

    It was a towering performance. So much so that you almost didn’t notice that the Leader of the Opposition had de-aged by about two decades, developed a broad Scottish accent and was standing in entirely the wrong place....

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: The Garden of England
  • Weather Preferences: A large kack of heavy cloud
  • Location: The Garden of England
    6 hours ago, scottish skier said:

    Panelbase November 2015 (so pre-brexit).

    Which of these statements is closest to your view?
    41% Scotland should definitely be an independent country
    28% I'm not convinced by the case for independence, but I'm not opposed to it on principle
    =69% Support or open to persuasion
    30% I would never vote for independence under any circumstances

    The main problem is on the web is that you tend to find people debating fall into the two end member groups.

    It's the 28% you need to talk to. Win over them and the union is finished. They've no love for it; they're Scottish before they're British.

    This is why No are so scared; their core vote is not that big. They need the votes of people who are not really on their side, and don't think indy is a bad thing in principle.

    Ta for this. It kind of answers the query I had a few days ago about 'don't knows'.

    Next thing is to identify the 28% by demography / geography and target them (both sides, that is).

    A bit like every GE when the opinions of the entire nation are ignored except for a few hundred people in Nuneaton!

     

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    Posted
  • Location: NH7256
  • Weather Preferences: where's my vote?
  • Location: NH7256
    6 hours ago, scottish skier said:

    Chortle.

     

    The funniest part is one politician demanding a one word answer from another!  As if Maggie Mk2 is going to act the taciturn Scot...

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland
    11 hours ago, mountain shadow said:

    I know, but even though I'm engaging with the 30% who say they will never vote for independence, its their complete ignorance which I find frightening. I'll still keep plugging away though.

    I know where you are coming from, back in 2013/14 there were some people I could only describe as "willfully ignorant". 

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland
    5 hours ago, Dougal said:

    Ta for this. It kind of answers the query I had a few days ago about 'don't knows'.

    Next thing is to identify the 28% by demography / geography and target them (both sides, that is).

    A bit like every GE when the opinions of the entire nation are ignored except for a few hundred people in Nuneaton!

     

    With respect to 2014 we know that those born in Scotland voted Yes in majority (yet on the pro UK side there are people asking for an ethnic aspect to a future referendum), on balance evidence suggests that non UK born voted Yes in majority (and this is a definite large Yes after the Brexit vote - all EU citizens ordinarily resident in Scotland have a vote in Scotland)... that means the focus of persuasion  needs to be on reassuring and convincing those UK citizens not born in Scotland who made Scotland their home, that independence not only doesn't present any threat to them, it presents a positive opportunity. 

    i know some English born, moved to Scotland, Daily Mail reading older / retired people who were staunchly unionist in 2014, they are split 50/50 for no vs Yes now after the EU referendum. In time demographics will shift the Scottish born vote enough for an overall Yes, but I'd prefer it if the Yes vote comes sooner, carried home by those born elsewhere in the UK who made the positive choice to make Scotland their home, voting in majority for a new future that those who live here in Scotland determine. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    How ironically symbolic; Westminster actually crumbling before our eyes.

    Quote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37303682

    MPs and peers could vacate Parliament amid urgent repairs

    A senior parliamentary committee is to recommend that all MPs and peers vacate both Houses of Parliament for six years to allow for urgent repairs.

    The report will suggest they relocate to nearby buildings, as early as 2020, to enable the £4bn restoration project.

    Incidentally, another nice 0.4 billion Scotland needs to cough up there to repair the English parliament, adding to our, ahem, 'deficit'.

    And you can bet it will be way more than 4 billion to repair. It's not as if the UK finishes projects on time and to budget.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Meanwhile, despite being told by Brit Nats and Cringers that we are too wee and too stupid to manage ourselves...........................

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37306546

     

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    17 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

    Meanwhile, despite being told by Brit Nats and Cringers that we are too wee and too stupid to manage ourselves...........................

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37306546

     

     

    Simple enough to set this up to collect all Scotland's taxes.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    ^^^ I await the Unionists frothing at the mouth over this appointment @scottish skier

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdLhtAnMdVAS5h9ETzjH0

     

    Edited by Ravelin
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