Jump to content
Cold?
Local
Radar
Snow?

Scottish Politics 2011-2017


Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

I don't see how NS could not hold having another referendum it and when it become clear that Scotland cannot remain in the EU when the appropriate Article has been triggered.

Which, despite the rhetoric again today, could be any time between next week and never. 

If/when it does happen then I agree, NS really has to throw the dice. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 30.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Scottish-Irish Skier

    8874

  • mountain shadow

    1528

  • skifreak

    1435

  • frogesque

    1306

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

Posted Images

13 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

I could only see English politicians present. Maybe there were some from other UK nations that I missed.

At least Scotland actually has an independence plan.

 

 

LOL Quick bite back at me, but it is still a UK cabinet regardless of the people present, and no reply to my reasonable question?

Until there are further negotiations between Scotland and EU you won't know the time scale/details for your EU deal. You know what you want granted, but apart from that............

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, interested & confused said:

LOL Quick bite back at me, but it is still a UK cabinet regardless of the people present, and no reply to my reasonable question?

Until there are further negotiations between Scotland and EU you won't know the time scale/details for your EU deal. You know what you want granted, but apart from that............

You forget England has EVEL. There is now an official English cabinet.

And as i said, brexit negotiations will not be made between the UK and the EU, but between England and the EU. Separate negotiations will occur between Scotland and the EU. So talking about the UK cabinet in the context of brexit makes no sense. Scotland even has its own minister for brexit LOL. Your minister for brexit isn't ours, so he can't be a UK minister for brexit.

Erm, Scotland is already in negotiations with the EU. What world are you living in? This just can't be talked about openly while article 50 has not been triggered. Hell, Scotland has been in increasing negotiation with the EU since 2011 when the possibility of independence appeared. By the time article 50 is triggered, a deal could already be done and dusted and referendum held within a few weeks.

In terms of what is being negotiated... Scotland is already in the eu sharing a seat with the ruk. The ruk is vacating that seat and Scotland will just take control of it fully. Fairly straightforward. Will all occur in the 2 year period of England leaving the EU and UK. There is very little to sort out.

So don't worry us. We'll be fine. Hope you guys come up with a plan of some sort soon.

Edited by scottish skier
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

You forget England has EVEL. There is now an official English cabinet.

And as i said, brexit negotiations will not be made between the UK and the EU, but between England and the EU. Separate negotiations will occur between Scotland and the EU. 

Scotland is already in the eu sharing a seat with the ruk. The ruk is vacating that seat and Scotland will just take control of it fully. Fairly straightforward. Will. All occur in the 2 year period of England leaving the EU and UK.

So don't worry us. We'll be fine. Hope you guys come up with a plan of some sort soon.

So do I, wonder how that meeting went, not seen much about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

brexit negotiations will not be made between the UK and the EU, but between England and the EU.

I don't think that is correct, the negotiations are for the UK as that is what the referendum was for - the UK

EVEL is only for decisions only affecting England, this patently affects all of the UK, as it stands

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

So do I, wonder how that meeting went, not seen much about it.

I can guess... 

May "Right hands up anyone with a plan... What, no one?" 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, interested & confused said:

I don't think that is correct, the negotiations are for the UK as that is what the referendum was for - the UK

EVEL is only for decisions only affecting England, this patently affects all of the UK, as it stands

No, they are for England mainly. Scotland will negotiate with England about what happens if Scotland wants to stay and leave the eu with England. People who support the UK should hope for this being an offer of independence within a new confederal UK within the EEA (including full EU freedom of movement). That's the UK's best hope.

Sorry, but Westminster gives up the right to represent Scotland in Europe if it quits Europe. Scottish people - European citizens in their own right - have given the Scottish government a triple mandate to take over on this issue. The UK government has no mandate to negotiate for Scotland. The 2014 result has been superseded by 2 electoral mandates and a resounding EU ref one.

Edited by scottish skier
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

No, they are for England mainly. Scotland will negotiate with England about what happens if Scotland wants to stay and leave the eu with England. People who support the UK should hope independence within an new confederation UK within the EEA is offered. That's the UK's best hope.

Sorry, but Westminster gives up the right to represent Scotland in Europe if it quits Europe. Scottish people - European citizens in their own right - have given the Scottish government a triple mandate to take over on this.

I know the logic in what your saying but Scotland does not have the constitutional right (I think) to do these things without the consent of Westminster, unless they just go ahead and do it anyway in a kind of unilateral withdrawal from the UK.

I still believe Westminster will say ALL of the UK is brexiting and the only way out for Scotland would be a 2nd Iref with hopefully the EU on board with Scotland taking over the UKs membership.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Sorry, but Westminster gives up the right to represent Scotland in Europe if it quits Europe

Yes, but we haven't left the EU yet!

EVEL only comes in for matters exclusively English, there is never much that is - certainly not this which affects Scotland, Wales, N.I and England.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

I know the logic in what your saying but Scotland does not have the constitutional right (I think) to do these things without the consent of Westminster, unless they just go ahead and do it anyway in a kind of unilateral withdrawal from the UK.

I still believe Westminster will say ALL of the UK is brexiting and the only way out for Scotland would be a 2nd Iref with hopefully the EU on board with Scotland taking over the UKs membership.

 

No consent needed for Scotland to negotiate with the EU. I mean how on earth could that be stopped anyway. With tanks? Certainly May waving her finger and saying 'you can't do that!' is hardly going to do anything; Sturgeon can just shove her aside as she heads for departure lounge. 

I feel embarrassed for people who think England has power here. Jeez, this is the modern democratic world, big powerful Britain is long gone, and even with tanks it couldn't defeat wee Ireland at the peak of its domination.

Of course the EU will not doing anything formal until the UK actually says 'Yes, we are leaving'. Official negiations are illegal until this happens as that would be interfering in the domestic politics of a member state. However, the UK rescinding that membership changes the situation entirely. Scottish people are EU citizens who have voted to keep that.

Our MPs could of course withdraw Scotland from the UK tomorrow. That would be a UDI type move though and risky for international recognition*.

The UK has no constitution nor legal system. It works entirely on mandate and mutual agreement. If we were all the same legal system with a constitution, things would be very different. We're not though.

Scottish Government have a mandate and the UK government does not.

May et al. haven't a leg to stand on. Only bluff and bluster.

--

EDIT

*I will reiterate that the only permission Scotland needs for independence is the permission of the rest of the world. What England thinks means nothing. If everyone else says 'Yep, we accept you are independent', then that's that. 

To make sure you get the recognition of other countries, you must do things democratically and diplomatically though. Hence seeking a new referendum mandate on EU offer vs Brexited UK offer is wise.

Edited by scottish skier
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

 

Our MPs could of course withdraw Scotland from the UK tomorrow. That would be a UDI type move though and risky for international recognition*.

--

EDIT

*I will reiterate that the only permission Scotland needs for independence is the permission of the rest of the world. 

I would say Scotland needs first and foremost the consent of the Scottish people before coming independent. 

You are talking about UDI if Scotland negotiates with EU to take the UKs place which would infer Scotland leaving the UK without the Scottish electorate voting on it.

Yes I agree UDI can happen for all the reasons you mention but it will not.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, interested & confused said:

 

 

LOL Quick bite back at me, but it is still a UK cabinet regardless of the people present, and no reply to my reasonable question?

 

EVEL aside there were none of the secretary of states for the other home nations present. It is correctly HM Government not the UK Government because the majority of cabinet members head English departments of state. This was always so since Union, not a feature of devolution. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I'm concerned, it was an England only Cabinet meeting. No Scotland, Wales or NI input. Even Fluffy wasn't invited and we all know how well he supports Scotland's interests

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mountain shadow said:

I would say Scotland needs first and foremost the consent of the Scottish people before coming independent. 

You are talking about UDI if Scotland negotiates with EU to take the UKs place which would infer Scotland leaving the UK without the Scottish electorate voting on it.

Yes I agree UDI can happen for all the reasons you mention but it will not.

 

No, it's a negotiation based on what happens if Scotland votes Yes. Scotland might chose to vote to stay in the UK

And anyway, we are only talking about what is being said already being said formally, i.e. Scotland you are welcome to stay. There will be no problems at all here.

I should of course say that Scotland is a gigantic stick for the EU to beat the rUK with. The UK's position is so much weaker without Scotland. All that land, sea, electical power...biggest oil and gas reserves in Europe...best fisheries...military geostrategic positioning...

The EU rejoiced at Scotland's Remain.

Edited by scottish skier
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

No, it's a negotiation based on what happens if Scotland votes Yes. Scotland might chose to vote to stay in the UK

And anyway, we are only talking about what is being said already being said formally, i.e. Scotland you are welcome to stay. There will be no problems at all here.

 

There are still negotiations for Scotland to have with the EU, unless they have broken their own rules and told Nicola Sturgeon how much your contribution will be. Things like that still to discuss?

I just don't think it will all be as easy as you hope.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, interested & confused said:

There are still negotiations for Scotland to have with the EU, unless they have broken their own rules and told Nicola Sturgeon how much your contribution will be. Things like that still to discuss?

I just don't think it will all be as easy as you hope.

Contributions are made as a function of GDP, VAT and customs duties etc. It's a formula which you sort for each budget. It's not an agreed thing which you negotiate when joining.

It's just the UK that thinks its special so makes things complicated, demanding rebates and whatnot.

Edited by scottish skier
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Contributions are made as a function of GDP, VAT and customs duties etc. It's a formula which you sort for each budget. It's not an agreed thing which you negotiate when joining.

It's just the UK that thinks its special so makes things complicated, demanding rebates and whatnot

I didn't know that, I thought each country had to come to some agreement...

Actually, though, I think it really was worth arguing for the UK rebate in the 70s.

"As the UK’s VAT base in comparison with gross national product (GNP) was proportionally higher than in other member states, and the UK was more open than other member states to trade with non-EEC countries, this system implied a disproportionate contribution by the UK when it joined the EEC in 1973. Additionally, the fact that around 70 per cent of the EEC budget[5] was used to finance the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), and that the UK had a small agricultural sector meant that the UK gained few receipts under the EEC's redistributive policies."

Link to post
Share on other sites

We are truly living in the last days of Rome.

Quote

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/08/30/not-content-with-losing-40-of-their-41-seats-in-scotland-labour-reveal-plan-to-shed-that-last-one-too/

Not content with losing 40 of its 41 seats in Scotland, Labour reveals plan to shed that last one too [EDITORIAL]

In the 2015 general election, Scottish Labour lost all but one of its seats in Scotland – as the SNP stormed to victory. Now the party has taken a decision which may well get rid of that last one too. It has hired the political editor of the Scottish Daily Mail as its Director of Communications.

Alan Roden is infamous north of the border, for producing headlines demonising the SNP, Labour, Scottish Greens – basically any political party which dares put forward a socially liberal, or economically progressive idea. Here is one example of his handiwork, where he incited homophobia to smear the SNP...

roden.jpg

 

 

Edited by scottish skier
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Wee nod from the ERS.

Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37238641

'Glaring deficiencies' in EU debate, Electoral Reform Society says

The EU referendum campaign was dogged by "glaring democratic deficiencies" with voters turned off by big name politicians and negative campaigning, a report says...

...The society said the EU debate was in "stark contract" to the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence, which it said had featured a "vibrant, well-informed, grassroots conversation that left a lasting legacy of on-going public participation in politics and public life".

 

Edited by scottish skier
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scottish skier said:

Wee nod from the ERS.

 

I suppose the same could be said about Alistair Darling and AS last time around!  There was more than a whiff of uncorroborated BS on occasions from both sides. :hi:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kar999 said:

I suppose the same could be said about Alistair Darling and AS last time around!  There was more than a whiff of uncorroborated BS on occasions from both sides. :hi:

Clearly Yes didn't BS enough. That's apparently the key to winning. That and having no plan for what to do if you do win.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, mark4 said:

Yes supporters thankfully know to ignore the EBC and are significantly more informed thanks to social media. 

For some reason a large portion of No voters prefer to be uneducated on these matters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Scotland has taken in 1,000 Syrian refugees since a summit last year aimed at easing the international refugee crisis.

The Scottish government said the milestone was reached after 120 new refugees arrived in Scotland in the past week.

Equalities Secretary Angela Constance urged the UK government to accept more refugees.

A Home Office spokesman said: "The UK has been at the forefront of the international response to the humanitarian crisis in Syria.

"We have committed to resettling 20,000 Syrian refugees through our Vulnerable Persons Resettlement (VPR) scheme over the course of this parliament — and have already provided refuge to more than 2,800 people in need of protection.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37234429

-----

Has Scotland really taken over one third of all the Syrian refugees resettled in the UK so far? 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...