Jump to content
Cold?
Local
Radar
Snow?

Scottish Politics 2011-2017


Recommended Posts

Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.

    Quite interesting in one of my modules, with it being on Scottish politics. Decline of Labour, Tories, rise of SNP and the recent referendum etc. All stuff covered on here at length and in far greater analysis...

     

    I'm thinking of doing my dissertation in this field. Certainly on either the fall of Labour, Tories, rise of SNP or something related to the recent referendum. The problem would be that many of these issues have been covered before... I'm not sure if a dissertation can be somewhat forward thinking, going to e-mail people at uni about this.

    Anyway, my point was to really give credit to this thread. Most of the 845 pages (thus far) are brimming with high quality, insightful and thought-provoking analysis. Mixed with a generous dollop of sarcastic, ironic and facetious comments. Tbh, on a par with University professors. My tutor, Peter Lynch, isn't bad but I certainly feel he would struggle to refute much of the analysis on here. To me, weighting the significance/influence of different factors ie - national identity, desire for devolution/independence over say Thatcher's legacy in keeping the Tory vote suppressed - is fairly black and white after a following this thread for 2/3 years now and something he could improve his own knowledge with if he engaged in such a medium. So yeah... well done to all who contribute to this thread :)   

    and if any of you do have an idea for what would make an interesting and slightly original dissertation question on this topic of Scottish Politics then feel free to say, however, this post is most definitely not a plea for such responses.

    • Like 5
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Spotted a post you think may be an issue? Please help the team by reporting it.
    • Replies 30.9k
    • Created
    • Last Reply

    Top Posters In This Topic

    • Scottish-Irish Skier

      8874

    • mountain shadow

      1528

    • skifreak

      1435

    • frogesque

      1306

    Top Posters In This Topic

    Popular Posts

    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

    Posted Images

    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    36 minutes ago, SW Saltire said:

    Quite interesting in one of my modules, with it being on Scottish politics. Decline of Labour, Tories, rise of SNP and the recent referendum etc. All stuff covered on here at length and in far greater analysis...

     

    I'm thinking of doing my dissertation in this field. Certainly on either the fall of Labour, Tories, rise of SNP or something related to the recent referendum. The problem would be that many of these issues have been covered before... I'm not sure if a dissertation can be somewhat forward thinking, going to e-mail people at uni about this.

    Anyway, my point was to really give credit to this thread. Most of the 845 pages (thus far) are brimming with high quality, insightful and thought-provoking analysis. Mixed with a generous dollop of sarcastic, ironic and facetious comments. Tbh, on a par with University professors. My tutor, Peter Lynch, isn't bad but I certainly feel he would struggle to refute much of the analysis on here. To me, weighting the significance/influence of different factors ie - national identity, desire for devolution/independence over say Thatcher's legacy in keeping the Tory vote suppressed - is fairly black and white after a following this thread for 2/3 years now and something he could improve his own knowledge with if he engaged in such a medium. So yeah... well done to all who contribute to this thread :)   

    and if any of you do have an idea for what would make an interesting and slightly original dissertation question on this topic of Scottish Politics then feel free to say, however, this post is most definitely not a plea for such responses.

    Interesting that your post didn't mention the LibDems. Sorry for the random observation out of all the responses you could have had! 

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
    15 minutes ago, CatchMyDrift said:

    Interesting that your post didn't mention the LibDems. Sorry for the random observation out of all the responses you could have had! 

    idk, just less significant imo. The course, interestingly enough, does not have a 'decline of the Lib Dems in Scotland' tutorial or lecture...... perhaps due to them being a less significant force at a UK level.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
    9 hours ago, SW Saltire said:

    idk, just less significant imo. The course, interestingly enough, does not have a 'decline of the Lib Dems in Scotland' tutorial or lecture...... perhaps due to them being a less significant force at a UK level.

    Rather than talking about the decline and rise of parties, it would make more sense to talk about the polarisation of Scottish politics into either Scottish Nationalist and British Nationalist.

     

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    32 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

    Rather than talking about the decline and rise of parties, it would make more sense to talk about the polarisation of Scottish politics into either Scottish Nationalist and British Nationalist.

    This only really applies to small section of the population though.

    I need to dig out the data, but over 70%* are open to independence; it's just a significant section of that are not convinced that it's the best move right now. So we don't really have a 50/50 split, even though the Y/N polls are something like that. 

    Your 'British nationalists' are ~17% of the population; these are the people who say they'd vote for the union today if Scotland was currently independent. They're quite vocal though, just as solid supporters of independence are.

    Anyway, polarisation suggests two clear camps heavily at odds with one another. This is the case, but one camp is very small; hence it bitterly screaming and wailing even though it didn't actually lose in 2014.

    ---

    Edit. Checked. Panelbase back in November got, for example:

    41% Scotland should definitely be independent + 28% I'm not convinced by the case for independence, but I'm not opposed to it on principle = 69%.

    'British nationalists' would not tick either of these!

    Panelbase is less Yes/SNP friendly as a pollster too.

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    1 hour ago, mountain shadow said:

    Rather than talking about the decline and rise of parties, it would make more sense to talk about the polarisation of Scottish politics into either Scottish Nationalist and British Nationalist.

     

    That could be split into a few dissertation topics in itself. I'm still not convinced that many SNP voters are out and out nationalists in the sense that a Union Jack waving Rule Britannia singing Sash chanting Rangers fan is a British Nationalist. Even the most hardcore Scottish nationalists tend to be very modest about their nation.

    Is the polarisation purely Brit v Scot or is it a combination of (Brit+Wealthier+Older) v (Scot+Less Well Off+Younger). Or is it simply that the Tories and now Labour have failed to stay with the people while the SNP have moved to where the people are? Anyway, I am sure SS has covered all of this in great detail over the years :D 

    Maybe SWS could do his dissertation on the influence of the Internet on modern Scottish politics? Some SNP politicians have a huge reach on social media while those in other parties really struggle to engage with the younger vote.

    Edited by CatchMyDrift
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.

    Thanks for your responses guys :) 

    Polarization is a good one. I could tie that in with the fact that the younger generation use social media whereas, the  older generation still use 'traditional' methods ie newspapers etc. 

    Or the huge levels of political engagement in Scotland. Ie 'How did Scotland become one of the most politically engaged countries in the world?' (Or why etc) 

    I think what you have suggested is much better than focusing narrowly on one party etc

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
    15 hours ago, scottish skier said:

    Scotland’s “Corbyn 4 Prime Minister” Concert Hit By Poor Ticket Sales

    I did consider it but I wasn't fussed on his last album so decided to pass on it.

    Seriously though, who ever though that would be a good idea? I mean, it's not even close to an election where Corbyn could become Prime Minister so even the timing seems strange.

    I see the SNP are causing a stushie again by having the temerity to vote at Westminster...

    The SNP has said it is to vote against UK government plans to change Sunday trading laws in England and Wales.

    Proposals to allow English and Welsh councils to permit larger stores to open for more than six hours will not directly affect Scotland, where there are no trading restrictions in place.

    But the SNP said it had concerns over the knock-on effects on Scottish pay.

    With more than 20 Tory MPs set to rebel, the risk of a government defeat in a vote on Wednesday has increased.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35756258

    In all of the hysterical coverage of this I've not seen one explanation why the vote doesn't fall under the EVEL legislation if it truly only applies to England & Wales. I thought that was the whole point of EVEL after all?

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    42 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

    I did consider it but I wasn't fussed on his last album so decided to pass on it.

    Seriously though, who ever though that would be a good idea? I mean, it's not even close to an election where Corbyn could become Prime Minister so even the timing seems strange.

    I see the SNP are causing a stushie again by having the temerity to vote at Westminster...

    The SNP has said it is to vote against UK government plans to change Sunday trading laws in England and Wales.

    Proposals to allow English and Welsh councils to permit larger stores to open for more than six hours will not directly affect Scotland, where there are no trading restrictions in place.

    But the SNP said it had concerns over the knock-on effects on Scottish pay.

    With more than 20 Tory MPs set to rebel, the risk of a government defeat in a vote on Wednesday has increased.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35756258

    In all of the hysterical coverage of this I've not seen one explanation why the vote doesn't fall under the EVEL legislation if it truly only applies to England & Wales. I thought that was the whole point of EVEL after all?

    I'm not sure how the SNP reckon it will have any effect on Scottish pay? In my past and current experience of working for UK-wide employers you get nothing extra for working on a Sunday, so who will be affected by English shops opening all day on a Sunday? A lot of bluster about nothing. 

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    3 minutes ago, CatchMyDrift said:

    I'm not sure how the SNP reckon it will have any effect on Scottish pay? In my past and current experience of working for UK-wide employers you get nothing extra for working on a Sunday, so who will be affected by English shops opening all day on a Sunday? A lot of bluster about nothing. 

    I think it's primarily to annoy the Tories.

    After all, they keep voting on Scottish legislation even though they have like one Scottish MP, so...

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    1 minute ago, scottish skier said:

    I think it's primarily to annoy the Tories.

    After all, they keep voting on Scottish legislation even though they have like one Scottish MP, so...

    That's what I've just posted in the Sunday Trading thread. If it was so important to the SNP to protect workers' rights they would want to limit Sunday trading in Scotland. But they don't. 

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
    3 minutes ago, CatchMyDrift said:

    I'm not sure how the SNP reckon it will have any effect on Scottish pay? In my past and current experience of working for UK-wide employers you get nothing extra for working on a Sunday, so who will be affected by English shops opening all day on a Sunday? A lot of bluster about nothing. 

    On the one hand there was the USDAW woman on Radio Scotland's phone in who said about 30% of shop workers in Scotland were on enhanced Sunday rates and stood to lose out. On the other hand there were a number of callers who worked Sundays in shops who said their enhanced pay rates were already being reduced, irrespective of the vote. I don't think my son who works part time in a supermarket gets enhanced Sunday pay, but then again he only normally works Sat & Sun and I could be wrong.

    Personally I agree, SNP playing politics. No one should be surprised though at politicians playing politics, it's what we send them to parliament to do.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    4 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

    On the one hand there was the USDAW woman on Radio Scotland's phone in who said about 30% of shop workers in Scotland were on enhanced Sunday rates and stood to lose out. On the other hand there were a number of callers who worked Sundays in shops who said their enhanced pay rates were already being reduced, irrespective of the vote. I don't think my son who works part time in a supermarket gets enhanced Sunday pay, but then again he only normally works Sat & Sun and I could be wrong.

    Personally I agree, SNP playing politics. No one should be surprised though at politicians playing politics, it's what we send them to parliament to do.

    I'm not sure that the relaxation of Sunday trading law in England is the catalyst for removing Sunday working premiums. Many UK wide companies removed these at least a decade ago. I've worked for Sainsbury's for almost four years and the Sunday premiums were long gone for new staff when I started. 

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I worked as a waiter in a hotel, then in a supermarket, followed by a shop and finally in a bar from 16-22, including holidays as a student.

    That's back pre-2000. I don't recall getting any special sunday rate.

    Anyway, I support anything that annoys the Tories. So long as they keep doing the English Votes for Scottish Laws thing, I support Scottish MPs voting on all the English matters they can.

    I know the SNP didn't used to do this, but that was back when Scotland voted British and they had 6 MPs. All changed now; Scotland voted Scottish but Westminster is overruling that (e.g. voting down the SNP's devo max mandate, which is much bigger than any UK-mandate the Tories have, never mind their non-existent one for Scotland), so all is fair in love and politics.

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    5 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

    I worked as a waiter in a hotel, then in a supermarket, followed by a shop and finally in a bar from 16-22, including holidays as a student.

    That's back pre-2000. I don't recall getting any special sunday rate.

    Anyway, I support anything that annoys the Tories. So long as they keep doing the English Votes for Scottish Laws thing, I support Scottish MPs voting on all the English matters they can.

    I know the SNP didn't used to do this, but that was back when Scotland voted British and they had 6 MPs. All change now; Scotland voted Scottish but Westminster is overruling that, so all is fair in love and politics.

    Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy for the SNP to wind up the government, I am simply being objective and pointing out that it's cynical of them. 

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Well done SNP if you pull it off. A halt in seven day working for a short while anyway.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Oh I wish I could have been there for this.

    At tonight's Corbyn4PM event in Edinburgh.

    EDIT. Aw man, I should have got tickets.

     

    Edited by scottish skier
    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    9 hours ago, The PIT said:

    Well done SNP if you pull it off. A halt in seven day working for a short while anyway.

    Done.

    Quote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35768674

    Sunday trading defeat for government as MPs reject changes

    As the Tories would say '#BetterTogether'. Bet they're increasingly wondering about that now. :)

    Incidentally, other parts of the Enterprise Bill do apply to Scotland, hence it wasn't EVEL.

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    9 hours ago, CatchMyDrift said:

    Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy for the SNP to wind up the government, I am simply being objective and pointing out that it's cynical of them. 

    Sure. Apparently parts of the Enterprise bill do apply in Scotland though, hence it wasn't EVEL.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Wylye , Wiltshire
  • Location: Wylye , Wiltshire

    Very surprised to see no reaction to the GERS figures in the Scottish political thread , and yet lots of comments in the same thread on a the ability , or not, to shop in England /Wales on a Sunday?

    strange old world!

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    25 minutes ago, Arthur said:

    Very surprised to see no reaction to the GERS figures in the Scottish political thread , and yet lots of comments in the same thread on a the ability , or not, to shop in England /Wales on a Sunday?

    strange old world!

    They were kind of as expected.

    1% drop in tax revenues during the biggest oil price collapse in 2 decades. Scotland producing almost exactly the same tax per head as the UK, rather than considerably more so as it's done for decades.

    Just confirmed what Yes said was correct all along; Scotland not dependent on oil.

    Hence lack of excitement.

    Anyway. GERS is a rough estimate of Scotland's revenues as part of the UK. They're about as useful as a chocolate teapot for guaging an independent Scotland's fiscal position.

    Really simple as GERS adds the cost of being in the UK to Scotland. That includes paying a share of England's debts, paying for another parliament and civil service down in London, funding infrastructure in England such as Crossrail and the new London sewer system. Paying for a huge offensive military force + wars....

    You'd need to deduct all these costs to get a better idea of an iScotland's fiscal position.

    Hence comments such as this from the BBC:

    briantaylorgers.jpg

    Brian Taylor

    And prominent unionists agreeing with the above:

    merrynsw21.jpg

    Right-wing MoneyWeek journalist Merryn Somerset Webb

    There's a good article on Wings from Economist Dr Craig Dalzell

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/gazing-into-the-black-hole/

    Just reiterating what's been said so many times here and elsewhere. Still worth a read though as it discusses how low oil prices have all but cancelled out the effect of well, the low oil price.

    As I've said before, because Scotland never saw the billions in oil revenues - this all going to London to be mainly spent on England - it never fell into the trap of becoming lazy and dependent on them. It was like having an Norwegian oil fund (where the money was banked so a normal economy had to develop too), but someone else got the fund and spent it on themselves.

    --

    Personally, what I can't get my head around, is pro-UK parties jumping on that 1% drop and all the people who've lost there jobs in oil during the downturn with glee. What kind of screwed up mindset is that? Do they hate their country and its people that much?

    I'm sure you'd agree it would take one sick f**ker to be chuffed at times being tough, a loss of jobs and a drop in tax revenues?

    Edited by scottish skier
    • Like 6
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Yes, of course it would have been. Still is.

    It's that or Scotland is totally debt free. You need to share sterling / sterling printing facilities if you are to help finance UK debt issued in sterling.

    Of course Scotland's share would be very little if anything due to Scotland being net contributor for decades. This isn't accounted for in GERs, which just places a places a population share of UK debt repayments on Scotland's books.

    If I have a business partner who runs up loads of debt on their credit card, I'm not liable for it. Of course if they used it to pay for some stuff I used then I should help pay some back.

    Anyway, main message is: 'You were lied to and there will be a currency union upon independence next time. At least for a while'. Just like Yes people said.

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    BBC must have bused in more than half that audience.  That is not a Dundee audience

    Usual SNP baaaaaaaadddd.

    • Like 2
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    What a disgrace of a programme!   There were more english voices in that audience tonight than at the last night of the Proms from the Albert Hall!  Nothing more than political pigswill.   Dundee? aye right, could just as well have been bloody Dunstable.  The BBC can stick their proposed ' Scottish Six'  up their English posteriors!  (sideways)

     

     

    Edited by Blitzen
    • Like 2
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent

    In fairness, The BBC did say that audiences would be "balanced" between in and out once the referendum was finally called. That's got to mean a  Scottish audience is not going to reflect the views of the country. Seems a bit over pc to me, but I suppose thete are rules abou it?

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Guest
    This topic is now closed to further replies.
    • Sunshine & showers today, wet & windy Saturday, warmer but blustery Sunday

      Showers developing across northern and eastern areas today, wet and windy for many on Saturday, sunshine & blustery showers on Sunday, but it will be warmer, perhaps reaching 20C in the southeast. Read the full update here

      Netweather forecasts
      Netweather forecasts
      Latest weather updates from Netweather

      Good news for gardeners: Frost-free from this weekend - Plus some more rain

      Some good news for gardeners and farmers alike, it looks like most will see the back of the frosts that have been a feature of many nights since late March from this weekend. While it stays unsettled with further rain or showers. View the full blog here

      Nick F
      Nick F
      Latest weather updates from Netweather

      UK Storm and Severe Convective Forecast

      UK Severe Convective & Storm Forecast - Issued 2021-05-06 08:50:36 Valid: 06/05/2021 0600 - 06/05/2021 THUNDERSTORM WATCH - THURS 06 MAY 2021 Click here for the full forecast

      Nick F
      Nick F
      Latest weather updates from Netweather
    • Recently Browsing   0 members

      No registered users viewing this page.

    ×
    ×
    • Create New...