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Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    5 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

    That Daily Record article is one of the most blatantly misleading crocks of - - - -  I've ever seen. 

    As the saying goes, it's just "Doing a Carmichael"

    I read this morning that the BBC's Gary Robertson is saying Carmichael, MacArthur and Scott have all declined to be interviewed about the former being found 'innocent' in court.

    Rennie's unusually quiet too.

    I wonder why.

    Anyway, will be difficult to interview Carmichael now; as the judges concluded, you won't be able to trust anything he says. You'll have to keep asking if he's lying and even if he answers that question, that might be a lie too.

    #LibDemFightBack

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    Are people confusing a legal judgement with a moral judgement? If people were prosecuted for moral judgements the world would be a dangerous place. If people deem it appropriate the price will not be paid in the courts but at the ballot box. The bottom line is he was found not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing but guilty of the non-criminal offence of lying. In the interests of fairness and democracy I'm hoping if any other MP is found not guilty of anything illegal but guilty of a moral misjudgement we will always have this type of  postmortem/criticism. :) 

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    5 minutes ago, doctormog said:

    Are people confusing a legal judgement with a moral judgement? If people were prosecuted for moral judgements the world would be a dangerous place. If people deem it appropriate the price will not be paid in the courts but at the ballot box. The bottom line is he was found not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing but guilty of the non-criminal offence of lying. In the interests of fairness and democracy I'm hoping if any other MP is found not guilty of anything illegal but guilty of a moral misjudgement we will always have this type of  postmortem/criticism. :) 

    I'm not sure what you mean. Has someone been arguing he was found guilty of breaking the law? I haven't seen any posts to that effect.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    4 minutes ago, doctormog said:

    No, that is not what I am saying.

    Can you maybe clarify?

    You just seemed to repeat what everyone else has said*, yet did so as if they hadn't said it. You said people were confusing the judgement? May I ask who was confusing it?

    *Like this for example (and MS is not normally one to mince his words):

    20 hours ago, mountain shadow said:

    I believe the decision was right in law,  however morally it was wrong.

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    So your saying I am saying what everyone else has said yet you want clarification, righteo.

    OK, to be blunt if it transpires that one of your beloved can do no wrong SNP MPs has had a lapse of judgement in the same way that Carmichael does (for example for personal financial gain a hypothetical of course!!) I hope you will be equally objctive. Carmichael was always seen as being guilty of something even before the trial whereas Thomson, McGarry etc are a victims of a smear campaign by the biased MSM. It just gets a bit tedious listening to one party party political broadcast in here where any opposing view to the party line is roundly condemned.

    It's not that the anti Lib Dem, Labour, Tory, UKIP view does not exist but it is always met with hostility. It really is tiresome.  I know of several people who do not want to post in here because of the attacks they will face. 

    Re. This case it was always, like so many other things a win-win, situation for Carmichael's opponents. If he was found guilty it is an "Well what do you expect/I told you so", if found not guilty it was "well we all know he is a liar and the media are biased against us". Win win. Either the good guys or the martyrs. SNP bad? You're joking? They're infallible! No argument against them will ever be credible. It is really quite scary. This post doesn't need a response because I know your views and it is safe to say you will disagree with everything I have posted and will provide links and evidence why I am wrong. I accept that, I just profoundly disagree.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    doctormog, for the avoidance of doubt, if an SNP MP leaked a confidential memo, lied about doing so, cost the taxpayer £1.4m(?) on an inquiry before he admitted his guilt, I'd expect him to resign. If he didn't resign and was the MP for my branch I wouldn't vote to re-select him at the next election.

    Anyway, as I understand it Carmichael is still under investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Authority so this may not be the end of the matter quite yet.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Doctormog 

    Your post that supporters of the Union are not welcome in here is well erm just not true.

    If you look back you can see that we are actually desperate for No voters to post in here so we can get an idea of what they think on the Smith commission etc..and whether they are happy with the devolution package on the table.

    This is only a forum and if someone can't take a bit of criticism it's perhaps because they can't defend the defensible. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I agree with Ravelin.

    As for the SNP being 'infallible'. That's a bit of a silly thing to say.

    I've mentioned Bill Walker numerous times on this thread to demonstrate how that wasn't the case. SNP supporters on here have also said numerous times that if other SNP elected members are found to be clearly guilty of something, they won't back them. Currently we don't have any examples of such guilt, only weak insinuations from opposition parties and an hostile media. Even that however is sufficient for the SNP to suspend the members pending inquiries.

    The SNP are made up of Green, Socialist, Labour, Liberal and even one nation Tories so in that sense they are no more infallible than other parties. 

    However, they are pretty strict at vetting and dealing with bad eggs, much more so than other parties. They need to be given their lack of backing by the MSM.

    If an SNP MP had done what Carmichael did, they wouldn't be an SNP MP right now like Carmicheal remains a Lib MP and (Lib) shadow cabinet. That is the primary difference.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Just thought I'd demonstrate how SNP people on this forum constantly claim the SNP are infallible.

    Search the forum for plenty of these.

    On 08/10/2015 at 0:39 PM, scottish skier said:

    Bill Walker the wife beater. Huge 'scandal' created by the MSM which was going to kill the SNP and have folks flocking back to Labour. Nothing happened in polls. If anything, SNP gained a few points in post scandal polls, possibly because they chucked him out immediately when the allegations came to light.

    On 25/11/2015 at 9:57 PM, scottish skier said:

    You've heard of Bill Walker right Ed?

    He was a bad egg and was out on his ear for it. He won't be the last.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    1 hour ago, doctormog said:

    i Lib Dem, Labour, Tory, UKIP view does not exist but it is always met with hostility. It really is tiresome.  I know of several people who do not want to post in here because of the attacks they will face. 

    I love the way unionists believe people simply disagreeing with them is 'an attack'.

    It's a written forum. Nothing stops people posting what they want, be they indy supporters or pro-union. If they get abuse from people, they can report it to the mods who, in my experience, are very good at dealing with such things on NW. The fact that they are not having to interfere supports the fact there there are no 'attacks' going on; just people disagreeing on politics, which is hardly a shocker.

    If people just find someone's views e.g. repetitive and tiresome, they can just 'hide' that person's posts and choose not to engage with them.

    Only one person has been banned from this thread and forum for their actions I understand. That person was a unionist (and it was a long time ago).

    I think supporters of the union just don't like the fact that social media is dominated by pro-indy voters. This is simply a demographics thing; the younger age groups are much more pro-indy and also into social media. Only the over 65's back the union in majority and these people use social media a lot less. 

    It's just the way it is.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland
    14 hours ago, lfcdude said:

    CV0JhPwWcAA3h5D.jpg

     

    OH dear SNP

    Paper of lies sums up the Daily Record. The work that was looked at in the past was nothing to do with potential for stress fractures in the steel that has now occurred,  the fault that has occured wasn't something that was foreseen in said works. However the said works would have replaced sections of the deck truss and in order to do so the bridge would have been closed FOR MONTHS.

    Can you imagine the outcry if the bridge was closed for months for strengthening work when the new bridge had been given the go-ahead. The originally proposed Forth Replacement Crossing was scrapped by Labour pre-devolution, Labour and the Tories repeatedly tried to derail the revived Forth Replacement Crossing and have continuously called it a Nationalist vanity project.

    The 'Pouters are beside themselves moon howling at full volume on twitter etc and the MSM are right behind them, because they think they can damage the Scottish Government.  Three massive towering bridge piers beside the Forth Road Bridge stand testament to the transformational change in infrastructure development in Scotland post devolution and to the total hypocrisy, if not down right dishonesty of Unionist politicians and the equally Unionist MSM.

    I have been criss-crossing Scotland over recent weeks, I have driven through / past, the A9 dualling construction works in Strathspey, the ground surveying elsewhere on the route, the Aberdeen bypass construction that was originally proposed by the City Council in the 1940s, the mate completion works, the M73 improvements, used the relatively new M74 completion and M80 completion. Ridden back and for across the central belt by train on the new A2B line that provides an additional and electrified link between Edinburgh and Glasgow, seen sections of new OHLE on the principle E-G via Falkirk High line that is been electrified as part of the EGIP project. Would any of this happened pre devolution, no. How much of it would have happened if the Labour-Lib Dem coalition had persisted, while the Tory-Lib Dem coalition was in power at Westminster, very little except perhaps the borders railway, which was a Lib Dem pet project. 

    The MSM and Labour / Tory politicians howling about the SNP Scottish Government's lack of infrastructure investment is so detached from what voters are seeing with their own eyes that it's actually damaging themselves not the SNP - but Labour esp are so blinded by their tribal hatred they can't even see it!

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
    4 hours ago, doctormog said:

    So your saying I am saying what everyone else has said yet you want clarification, righteo.

    OK, to be blunt if it transpires that one of your beloved can do no wrong SNP MPs has had a lapse of judgement in the same way that Carmichael does (for example for personal financial gain a hypothetical of course!!) I hope you will be equally objctive. Carmichael was always seen as being guilty of something even before the trial whereas Thomson, McGarry etc are a victims of a smear campaign by the biased MSM. It just gets a bit tedious listening to one party party political broadcast in here where any opposing view to the party line is roundly condemned.

    It's not that the anti Lib Dem, Labour, Tory, UKIP view does not exist but it is always met with hostility. It really is tiresome.  I know of several people who do not want to post in here because of the attacks they will face. 

    Re. This case it was always, like so many other things a win-win, situation for Carmichael's opponents. If he was found guilty it is an "Well what do you expect/I told you so", if found not guilty it was "well we all know he is a liar and the media are biased against us". Win win. Either the good guys or the martyrs. SNP bad? You're joking? They're infallible! No argument against them will ever be credible. It is really quite scary. This post doesn't need a response because I know your views and it is safe to say you will disagree with everything I have posted and will provide links and evidence why I am wrong. I accept that, I just profoundly disagree.

    A carbuncle is a carbuncle regardless of who's nose it grows on.

    Going by the Orkney 4 fundraiser a great many other folk think so too.  When people start voting with their wallets and purses it really is time for politicians of all flavours to sit up and take notice.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    For services rendered.

    Screw what the electorate thinks; doesn't matter if you given them kicking at the ballot box. The British state rewards them anyway.

     

    #ProudScots #BetterTogether

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    You could have great fun captioning that last photo SS. How about,

    "Nationalist's victimization of LibDems gets out of hand as Duke of Rothsey tries to decapitate Danny Alexander".

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    DELETED!!!!!

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    Posted
  • Location: Upper Tweeddale, Scottish Borders 240m ASL
  • Location: Upper Tweeddale, Scottish Borders 240m ASL
    10 hours ago, skifreak said:

    Paper of lies sums up the Daily Record. The work that was looked at in the past was nothing to do with potential for stress fractures in the steel that has now occurred,  the fault that has occured wasn't something that was foreseen in said works. However the said works would have replaced sections of the deck truss and in order to do so the bridge would have been closed FOR MONTHS.

    Can you imagine the outcry if the bridge was closed for months for strengthening work when the new bridge had been given the go-ahead. The originally proposed Forth Replacement Crossing was scrapped by Labour pre-devolution, Labour and the Tories repeatedly tried to derail the revived Forth Replacement Crossing and have continuously called it a Nationalist vanity project.

    The 'Pouters are beside themselves moon howling at full volume on twitter etc and the MSM are right behind them, because they think they can damage the Scottish Government.  Three massive towering bridge piers beside the Forth Road Bridge stand testament to the transformational change in infrastructure development in Scotland post devolution and to the total hypocrisy, if not down right dishonesty of Unionist politicians and the equally Unionist MSM.

    I have been criss-crossing Scotland over recent weeks, I have driven through / past, the A9 dualling construction works in Strathspey, the ground surveying elsewhere on the route, the Aberdeen bypass construction that was originally proposed by the City Council in the 1940s, the mate completion works, the M73 improvements, used the relatively new M74 completion and M80 completion. Ridden back and for across the central belt by train on the new A2B line that provides an additional and electrified link between Edinburgh and Glasgow, seen sections of new OHLE on the principle E-G via Falkirk High line that is been electrified as part of the EGIP project. Would any of this happened pre devolution, no. How much of it would have happened if the Labour-Lib Dem coalition had persisted, while the Tory-Lib Dem coalition was in power at Westminster, very little except perhaps the borders railway, which was a Lib Dem pet project. 

    The MSM and Labour / Tory politicians howling about the SNP Scottish Government's lack of infrastructure investment is so detached from what voters are seeing with their own eyes that it's actually damaging themselves not the SNP - but Labour esp are so blinded by their tribal hatred they can't even see it!

    You forgot one: At last, the A8 in North Lankarshire is finally being upgraded to complete the M8, some 43 years after it the rest of it was 'finished'!

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Copied (courtesy) Wings over Scotland.   An attempt at explaining the bridge problems so far:

     

     

    1. The decision not to replace the entire section of bridge containing the part which has since become defective was made in 2010 by the now-defunct Forth Estuary Transport Authority (FETA), a non-government organisation dominated by Labour and Lib Dem board members. (The SNP had just three out of 10.)

    2. They elected to defer replacement after the Scottish Government reduced FETA’s capital funding in 2011. However, an Audit Scotland report in October 2012 noted that “FETA’s reserves will be utilised to meet planned capital funding shortfalls over the next three years”.

    The decision not to use the reserves to replace the section was FETA’s, which didn’t consider the work a priority in the light of other concerns.

    3. The replacement work would have entailed the closure of the bridge for a significant period, which is what’s happened now. In terms of the consequences for traffic over the Forth, nothing would have been gained by doing the work in 2010 – the disruption would simply have happened earlier and gone on for longer.

    4. There’s also no guarantee that the defective part wouldn’t still have become damaged even had the section been replaced in 2010. The fracture has only occurred in the last few weeks and the cause is unknown – it may or may not relate to accumulated wear and tear. Replacing the section in 2010 might simply have seen the bridge having to be closed twice.

    5. The removal of bridge tolls in 2008 (which was supported by all parties except the Greens) is a complete red herring, for the reasons outlined in points 3 and 4. No matter how much money was available the bridge would still have had to be closed to replace the now-damaged section. Users would have suffered all the same inconvenience, and been poorer as well.

    (For a five-days-a-week commuter, the £1 toll would have cost them around £2,040 over the period, assuming it stayed at the same level throughout.)

    6. Deferring the replacement offered a chance that the new bridge – due to open next year – would have been operational by the time the work on the old one had to be done, which would have avoided all the chaos of closure. However, the old bridge couldn’t hang on for the last few months and the gamble didn’t pay off.

    And that’s about that. Sometimes in life things break and it’s inconvenient. But the fact is that all the money in the world wouldn’t have stopped the Forth Road Bridge from having to be closed at some point. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the only thing which offered any possibility of minimising disruption was to NOT do the work in 2010. FETA made the right choice, but sadly weren’t vindicated by fortune.

    And after many years of inaction and opposition from other parties it was the SNP who built the new Queensferry Crossing, which should secure the route for decades to come. It’s only a shame that previous Scottish Executives didn’t do it long ago.

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Sums up the Scottish media so eloquently.

    Quote

    https://scottovoce.wordpress.com/2015/12/13/a-crisis-of-crises/

    A crisis of crises

    The term “crisis” has been devalued to mean pretty much anything that happens which can be used in attacking the Scottish Government. There is no longer anything that is just part of the day-to-day challenge of running large-scale public services. Anything that falls short of ideal is a calamitous failure. Every difficulty, however trivial and mundane from the perspective of those who have to deal with it, is portrayed as portending the imminent falling of the sky.

    There are no mere events in Scotland these days. Only a nose-to-tail procession of ever more dire crises. Every day is a red alert day. If Bruce Willis thought he had problems dealing with the bad guys in the Die Hard movies he should try travelling in Scotland. Or getting medical treatment. Or doing any of the things that fortunate folk elsewhere consider no more than part of life’s humdrum routine. You need all the attributes of a super-hero just to cope in crisis-ridden Scotland.

    Some folk think they’re hard done by because a dozen or so of the most heavily militarised nations in the world are queuing up to drop bombs on the rubble that remains where their homes used to be. They want to spare a thought for the poor unfortunates who might have to endure the unspeakable horror of being obliged to journey from Falkirk to Glasgow by bus instead of train.

    Nothing is ordinary in Scotland any more. Everything is extreme. Today’s crisis is the worst crisis since yesterday’s crisis. But nothing compared to tomorrow’s crisis.

    The papers are running out of exclamation marks! Broadcasters are being forced to re-use superlatives!

    Existence is extremis!

    The trains are a bit busy!

    Wur doomed! Wur a’ doomed!

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Excellent summary of the Bridge situation by wings. All referenced as usual.

    Quote

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-forth-road-bridge-faq/

    The Forth Road Bridge FAQ

    Over the last few days, as most of Scotland’s media has focused on hysterical smear stories and outright lies, we’ve been digging around trying to uncover the truth about events leading to the closure of the Forth Road Bridge.

    Here’s what we’ve got so far.


    1. The reason there isn’t already a second road bridge at Queensferry is the Labour Party. When they came to power at Westminster in 1997 one of their first acts was to cancel the building of a new bridge planned by the previous Conservative government, claiming that building it would cause traffic congestion in Edinburgh...

    ...The only people who can definitively be identified as being at fault are the Labour Party, without whom there would already be two road bridges across the Forth at Queensferry. Readers may feel that it’s little wonder that they’re making so much noise now, in a frantic attempt to distract attention from their own culpability.

    EDIT

    BBC Labour really finding it hard to tell the truth here, but they get there:

    Quote

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35091492

    Scottish Labour deputy leader Alex Rowley claimed the email undermined claims by SNP ministers that the crack was "unforeseen and unforeseeable."

    But government agency Transport Scotland has said the restriction on exceptionally- large abnormal loads was not related to the present defect on the bridge.
    Instead, it said it was related to potential unacceptable overstress to the truss end brackets and associated welds within the towers, which was being addressed by the ongoing strengthening works.


    It also insisted the defect that resulted in the bridge closure was only identified in the past few weeks, and had not been previously predicted by engineers.
    Mr Mackay told BBC Scotland Labour had been "deliberately misinterpreting and twisting the facts for their own petty party political gain."

    Right. So, according to Labour, Transport Scotland are lying. Bridge engineers are also lying. Former FETA board and engineers are likewise lying. Scottish Government are of course lying. Everyone is lying apart from the Labour party who cancelled plans for a new bridge when they were in power, then obstructed SNP plans for a new bridge when the latter came to power.

    #KeziaforFM

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: North of Falkirk
  • Weather Preferences: North Atlantic cyclogenesis
  • Location: North of Falkirk

    So after all the stushie about the repairs to the Forth Road Bridge not being carried out 6 years ago it has emerged that the Bridge Convener (Lib Dem) and the Co Convener (Labour) were the people responsible for not giving the go ahead as not being essential. Both admit the funding was in place but now concede (with hindsight ) they made the wrong decision. I wonder if Scottish Labour and the Lib Dems will still insist on a public enquiry now that the facts are against them?

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
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