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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Salmonds Angels I presume ..

     

    Surely you mean 'Sturgeon's Angels'?

     

    ----

     

    Latest SS UK poll off polls, taking into account 3 post Corbyn election (Comres, Yougov and Opinium). Changes on GE result in brackets

     

    39(+2)% Con

    31(+1)% Lab

    14(+1)% UKIP

    7(-1)% Lib

    3(-1)% Green

     

    No sign of any movement / Corbynmania. If anything, the right-wing vote is on the rise, with Con+UKIP on 53%.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Seems Corbyn backs forcing Scotland to pay for and host England's nuclear weapons against the will of the Scottish electorate?

     

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11875708/Labour-MPs-agree-to-serve-Jeremy-Corbyn-after-being-told-Trident-will-not-be-scrapped.html

     

    Labour MPs agree to serve Jeremy Corbyn after being told party won't back scrapping Trident
     
    Shadow defence ministers were given assurances new Labour leader will not change party's position on Trident and Nato before taking up jobs

     

    Unelected ermined lords in his cabinet, renewal of trident...

     

    Not sure how much common ground the just left of centre SNP will be able to find with Corbyn's more centre-right Labour.

     

    Could be just a telegraph smear, but if true, that would be a deal breaker of the first order and he can go take a running jump.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Surely you mean 'Sturgeon's Angels'?

     

    ----

     

    Latest SS UK poll off polls, taking into account 3 post Corbyn election (Comres, Yougov and Opinium). Changes on GE result in brackets

     

    39(+2)% Con

    31(+1)% Lab

    14(+1)% UKIP

    7(-1)% Lib

    3(-1)% Green

     

    No sign of any movement / Corbynmania. If anything, the right-wing vote is on the rise, with Con+UKIP on 53%.

    sorry my mistake !!!:).
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Jeez SS............Would the Telegraph risk writing that without foundation?   I would prefer to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak but if true it just points to him being another lying politician who values power before principles.

     

    Another Tory sheep in wolves clothing perhaps?    Oh God, I'm running out of strength!

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    They arrived a later on though apparently..........

     

    https://www.facebook.com/672305806/videos/10152250111860807/?fref=nf

     

    That footage was from last year. There was no trouble, a couple of Union Flag wavers looked in but ran off as soon as the crowd turned round. Completely bottled it. Likewise earlier around 12 ish about a half dozen or so jobbies turned up but the police quickly saw them off.

     

    http://www.frogesque.co.uk/P9190451.jpg

     

    Meanwhile, a vile Nationalist bares his teeth!

     

    http://www.frogesque.co.uk/P9190417.jpg

     

     

     

    P9190417.jpg

    Edited by frogesque
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    That's good to know F. ( A bit misleading then, considering it was posted on a site yesterday.   I should have paid more attention!)

     

    How was the day for you, did you enjoy it?

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Jeez SS............Would the Telegraph risk writing that without foundation?   I would prefer to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak but if true it just points to him being another lying politician who values power before principles.

     

    Another Tory sheep in wolves clothing perhaps?    Oh God, I'm running out of strength!

     

    Or, alternatively, someone who has realised that reality is considerably more complex. Who knows what compromises and assurances (to be broken?) had to be made in order to ensure that he could put together a viable shadow cabinet. I'm no Corbyn fan, but I think your comments here are a little divorced from pragmatic considerations, as well as being pretty unfair on Corbyn.

    Edited by NickR
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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    Jeez SS............Would the Telegraph risk writing that without foundation?   I would prefer to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak but if true it just points to him being another lying politician who values power before principles.

     

    Another Tory sheep in wolves clothing perhaps?    Oh God, I'm running out of strength!

    It's right-wing Tory s***e like that that pushes me toward the Nationalist Agenda. Then again, some of the anti-UK vitriol posted in here drives me back t'other way...Please, guys, try not to alienate wavering former 'No'-voters; you'll need their support, at some point in the future... :D

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    That's good to know F. ( A bit misleading then, considering it was posted on a site yesterday.   I should have paid more attention!)

     

    How was the day for you, did you enjoy it?

     

    It was brilliant! Sun was out most of the day and the atmosphere was both electric and relaxed. Some good speakers and music with stuff for kids to do as well. 

     

    Numbers are misleading because a count is just a snapshot (as well as MSN bias). The rally was on for over 5 hours and folk were drifting in and out, either popping over to Greggs, or nipping off for a pint, also a lot of families with kids could only manage an hour or so. You have to remember this was a free, ticketless event so there was no pressure on folk to 'be' there at a given time. Bikers for Yes was probably the real high point. Some incredible hardware was parked up for the afternoon and it was well worth a look in for that alone.

     

    Tommy Sheridan isn't everyone's cup of tea. A bit in your face but he's a good orator. Did a great job from the stage giving full credit to all the musicians and speakers.  

     

    Credit to the police as well who were present but low key, friendly when approached and generally helped it all run safely and smoothly.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    It's right-wing Tory s***e like that that pushes me toward the Nationalist Agenda. Then again, some of the anti-UK vitriol posted in here drives me back t'other way...Please, guys, try not to alienate wavering former 'No'-voters; you'll need their support, at some point in the future... :D

     

    Aye, there's knuckle draggers on both sides and it helps no one. Generally though YES is a positive vision for the future whereas BT has been very negative with too much inertia to embrace change.

     

    BT has to project (and deliver) a sound case for the Union that's fit for the 22nd Century. Just because it's 'aways' been done that way doesn't mean it's set in concrete. Unless there IS real change then not only is the Union in danger but the whole of the rUK will fragment as well. I currently see no one accepting that challenge.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    It's right-wing Tory s***e like that that pushes me toward the Nationalist Agenda. Then again, some of the anti-UK vitriol posted in here drives me back t'other way...Please, guys, try not to alienate wavering former 'No'-voters; you'll need their support, at some point in the future... :D

     

    Aye, it's all that right-wing vitriol in the other threads that pushes me to indy; that and the anti-Scottish stuff in UK papers all the time (a favour not returned by the Scottish press). But then again all the nice people posting in the other threads from down south reaffirm my faith in humanity too.

     

    I personally haven't noticed anything I'd term 'anti-UK' in here, if by that UK you mean the people and nations that make it up. It seems to be anti-Westminster and associated pro-union parties, particularly hard right-wing neoliberal and/or authoritarian politics. That's very a different thing and Scots independence supporters moaning about the Tories is no different from someone from Suffolk doing the same.  :wink:  I think people can tend to view it differently (when independence supporters do it that is), which creates an 'anti-UK' perception, but they are wrong to do so*. People of any political view just wish their country to be governed in a particular way, whether that's a conservative Britain or an independent social democratic Scotland.

     

    When the Tories are actually overruling democracy + killing people etc, it can be hard to keep clam. I'm in the Corbyn camp though when it comes to personal attacks though; they won't win you arguments, especially if directed at your average voter. Attacking politicians for their policies is fair game though.

     

     

    ---

     

    *If being pro-independence is anti-UKish (english/welsh/N. Irish etc), then being UK must be anti-Scottish by the same weird logic.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Pershore
  • Location: Pershore

    Can I just say, if there's going to be another referendum, it really ought to wait until Andy Murray has stopped playing tennis just so us England/Welsh/Northern Irish can keep him on our team :D

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Jeez, talk about a sudden damascene conversion.

     

    First Lamont chips in:

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34301969

     

    Johann Lamont backs Labour 'free vote' on independence

     

     

    Then Kezia 'I've no idea what Labour policies are, so need some popular ones quickly' jumps on it.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34301969

     

    Kezia Dugdale would allow indyref 'free vote'

     

     

    Why didn't that apply before? Why did you threaten to expel people from the Labour party for voting for independence for their own country?

     

    I guess the way the wind is blowing has caused a re-think.

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Or, alternatively, someone who has realised that reality is considerably more complex. Who knows what compromises and assurances (to be broken?) had to be made in order to ensure that he could put together a viable shadow cabinet. I'm no Corbyn fan, but I think your comments here are a little divorced from pragmatic considerations, as well as being pretty unfair on Corbyn.

    Maybe you do consider it pretty unfair on Corbyn, which is fair enough.   On the other hand for someone who has campaigned against nuclear weapons for most of his life,  by backing down, goes against everything he alegedly believes in. Surely, whichever way you dress it up, he has chosen power over principle, which to me speaks volumes of the man himself?  I honestly didn't expect this from him.

    I think what has to be considered too is the fact that he may have gained many peoples' votes during his election because of his objection to  nuclear weapons and therefore NOT backing the renewal of Trident?

    I am obviously no Corbyn lover either but it would certainly shake my confidence in him if I were.

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Jeez, talk about a sudden damascene conversion.

     

    First Lamont chips in:

     

     

    Then Kezia 'I've no idea what Labour policies are, so need some popular ones quickly' jumps on it.

     

     

    Why didn't that apply before? Why did you threaten to expel people from the Labour party for voting for independence for their own country?

     

    I guess the way the wind is blowing has caused a re-think.

     

    It didn't apply before, because the GE hadn't happened. Now they're looking for any tactics which might help them get a foothold back in Scotland. Nothing about the wind changing; simply political jostling to try to win back votes. In fact, it's potentially a very good tactic: let the Scottish voters see you are allowing a free vote, try to use this to win back some support, whilst at the same time knowing that another referendum is so far away as to make such a statement meaningless.

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Maybe you do consider it pretty unfair on Corbyn, which is fair enough.   On the other hand for someone who has campaigned against nuclear weapons for most of his life,  by backing down, goes against everything he alegedly believes in. Surely, whichever way you dress it up, he has chosen power over principle, which to me speaks volumes of the man himself?  I honestly didn't expect this from him.

    I think what has to be considered too is the fact that he may have gained many peoples' votes during his election because of his objection to  nuclear weapons and therefore NOT backing the renewal of Trident?

    I am obviously no Corbyn lover either but it would certainly shake my confidence in him if I were.

    Did you never stop to consider that maybe he's done what he had to do in order not to jeopardise his chances of being in the job and still able to influence anything in 12 months' time?  Would you rather he had stuck resolutely by his principles and been out on his ear in 12 months to be replaced by a less left wing option? In addition to the fact that the party takes an active role in policy decisions rather than simply the leader.

     

    The "he's chosen power over principles" line is, IMO, very simplistic.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
    On the topic of UK polling....

     

    By September 2010, Labour were already chasing the Tories, being just a couple of points behind. By December 2010, they'd taken a clear lead; a lead they retained all the way through to early 2015.

     

    They then went on to lose and the Tories got a majority.

     

    Right now, they're 7-8 points behind in contrast, i.e. in an even worse position.

     


    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    Maybe you do consider it pretty unfair on Corbyn, which is fair enough.   On the other hand for someone who has campaigned against nuclear weapons for most of his life,  by backing down, goes against everything he alegedly believes in. Surely, whichever way you dress it up, he has chosen power over principle, which to me speaks volumes of the man himself?  I honestly didn't expect this from him.

    I think what has to be considered too is the fact that he may have gained many peoples' votes during his election because of his objection to  nuclear weapons and therefore NOT backing the renewal of Trident?

    I am obviously no Corbyn lover either but it would certainly shake my confidence in him if I were.

    So, what's he doing: refusing to impose a three-line whip on the PLP? :cc_confused:

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Did you never stop to consider that maybe he's done what he had to do in order not to jeopardise his chances of being in the job and still able to influence anything in 12 months' time?  Would you rather he had stuck resolutely by his principles and been out on his ear in 12 months to be replaced by a less left wing option? In addition to the fact that the party takes an active role in policy decisions rather than simply the leader.

     

    The "he's chosen power over principles" line is, IMO, very simplistic.

    We wait and see. Personally I think the man is a lightweight and will not be able to stand up and lead the party. A party of egos, sharks and crocodiles. He's yet to be tested.

     

    As someone might or might not have once said 'Events dear boy, events!'

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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    It's not Corbyn backing trident that would pee me off (its not as if I'd vote for him as he's a status quo London rule backer), it's the idea that he'll dump it in Scotland's back garden against the wishes of Scotland's people, its parliament, and Westminster MPs.

     

    If he did that, he'd be as anti-democratic as the Tories.

     

    Easy to dump your principles when someone else has to deal with results of that. Been a lot of nuclear accidents and near misses at Faslane over the years. That and WMDs passing through the heart of Glasgow at night.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    We wait and see. Personally I think the man is a lightweight and will not be able to stand up and lead the party. A party of egos, sharks and crocodiles. He's yet to be tested.

     

    As someone might or might not have once said 'Events dear boy, events!'

     Agreed!

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Beverley, East Yorks. (2 metres a.s.l.)
  • Weather Preferences: Something good in all four seasons
  • Location: Near Beverley, East Yorks. (2 metres a.s.l.)

    Can I just say, if there's going to be another referendum, it really ought to wait until Andy Murray has stopped playing tennis just so us England/Welsh/Northern Irish can keep him on our team :D

     

    Hahaa yes indeed, please let team GB win the Davis Cup outright this year for one thing  :)

     

    B.

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

      and still able to influence anything in 12 months' time?  Would you rather he had stuck resolutely by his principles and been out on his ear in 12 months to be replaced by a less left wing option? In addition to the fact that the party takes an active role in policy decisions rather than simply the leader.

     

    The "he's chosen power over principles" line is, IMO, very simplistic.

     

     

       I don't fancy his chances in being able to influence much in 12months time (if he is still there that is.) 

     

    The power over principles thing is not too simplistic in my view.   People voted for him because of his beliefs and principles. They voted for someone who would stand up for something different. 

     

     

    I'm disappointed in his Trident decision.  I will say again that I did not expect this from him.   I wonder how many others didn't either?

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Power ahead of principle just cost the Labour party every seat bar one in Scotland.

     

    Same for the Libs.

     

    Scottish Labour party* are (supposedly) opposed to trident; at least they've always voted against renewal in majority. Will Corbyn tell them 'Jocks - know your place' too?

     

    Would just be 'plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose'.

     

    ---

     

    *UK Labour, North British Branch Office (© Johann Lamont), more correctly.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: St rads Dover
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, T Storms.
  • Location: St rads Dover

    It didn't apply before, because the GE hadn't happened. Now they're looking for any tactics which might help them get a foothold back in Scotland. Nothing about the wind changing; simply political jostling to try to win back votes. In fact, it's potentially a very good tactic: let the Scottish voters see you are allowing a free vote, try to use this to win back some support, whilst at the same time knowing that another referendum is so far away as to make such a statement meaningless.

    It didn't apply before because now there a new leader taking the party in a different direction. 

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