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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Sturgeon / the SNP have 70% satisfied ratings and are on 55% (+10% on 2011) for May.

     

    Also, support for indy is now just ahead in polls on average.

     

    You need to keep up.

     

    For me, it's the pro-union parties that need to take a long, hard look at the massive failures that they are right now, especially the Tories who polls suggest could get a new record low in May 16 to add to an all time record low they got in May's GE.

     

    I do keep up. But changes in polls can't be used as justification for a new referendum. 

     

    As for satisfaction ratings - my suspicion is that has more to do with grandstanding that goes down well and very slick political management, discourse, and PR, rather than massive success of governance.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    I don't think it's fair to label devonian's posts as stuff and nonsense,

     

    Devonian is arguing that a political party winning a democratic election in a democracy and implementing a manifesto commitment to give the electorate more say is undemocratic. It's a nonsensical argument. Support for IndyRefs has always been substantially higher than actual support for indy, in other words even a sizeable portion of people who are completely committed to voting no, want to be asked the question.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    I think people need to grow thicker skin. If people think this is bad (really? Can some one highlight the monstrous posts that are getting people in tears?) then, judging by the UK politics threads and others, the EU referendum is going to be a terribly rude awakening for many.

    Its not a case of monstrous posts NR, it's the utter one-sided nature of the thread discussion which is an issue, it simply does not encourage open and fair debate. There are a core of posters who, whether deliberately or not, dominate this thread with their own passionate views, and its this polarisation of views that discourages other members from posting for fear of being rediculed and lambasted....From a Forum Hosting perspective, I try and remain impartial, and my main remit is to ensure the smooth flow of threads, and to ensure that every member feels that they can contribute to any thread :)
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    Devonian is arguing that a political party winning a democratic election in a democracy and implementing a manifesto commitment to give the electorate more say is undemocratic. It's a nonsensical argument. Support for IndyRefs has always been substantially higher than actual support for indy, in other words even a sizeable portion of people who are completely committed to voting no, want to be asked the question.

    That's a good point and we'll presented :) but to label all his posts as stuff and nonsense is a big strong, as was the calling of him as a 'troll' by another member earlier......if anyone believes a member is trolling then please hit the report button so the site team can investigate, it saves a lot of time and aggro :)
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Its not a case of monstrous posts NR, it's the utter one-sided nature of the thread discussion which is an issue, it simply does not encourage open and fair debate. There are a core of posters who, whether deliberately or not, dominate this thread with their own passionate views, and its this polarisation of views that discourages other members from posting for fear of being rediculed and lambasted....From a Forum Hosting perspective, I try and remain impartial, and my main remit is to ensure the smooth flow of threads, and to ensure that every member feels that they can contribute to any thread :)

    I understand that this thread is not balanced but the notion that this is ScottishSkiers or anyone else's fault is nonsense in my view. It's not his responsibility to submit less in-depth posts or to post less frequently in order to level the playing field. It's those who disagree with him who must do that.

    We could always enforce a post-per-day limit if it really is seen to be that drastic.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    If the majority views on here appear appear one sided on here its because the other side are to ashamed to speak or for themselves.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Nothing you can do about reality.

     

    Online support for independence in 2013 shown below.

     

    Support has obviously increased since then, especially in younger people who do social media more.

     

    Thread seems balanced to me.

     

    https://www.brandwatch.com/scottishindependencereferendum/

     

    Scottish-Referendum-findings1.png

     

     

    Got told off for posting factual stuff tonight in another thread.

     

    Not really bothered by it.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Online and other support may well be up on last year. Unfortunately, the referendum took place then, not now. So there you go. You can't call another referendum every time the polls change!

     

    As for the mandate thing... the idea that over 50% votes for a party whose manifesto contains the policy of another referendum can be used as "proof" that over 50% want another referendum is a non-starter. Voting for a party does not mean you agree with everything in their manifesto. Hell, a number of people might not agree with almost anything in a manifesto of a party they vote for!

    Edited by NickR
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland
    As for satisfaction ratings - my suspicion is that has more to do with grandstanding that goes down well and very slick political management, discourse, and PR, rather than massive success of governance.

     

    We are drawing to the close of the fourth term of the reconvened Scottish Parliament and IMO each of the terms has had more positives than negatives and achieved a lot of changes and improvements that simply wouldn't have happened under pre 1999 constitutional arrangements. Though it is often underestimated just how substantial the powers vested in Scottish Ministers were pre 99, the lack of democratic accountability for those ministers and lack of parliamentary time to devote to legislation and specific Scottish issues severely held Scotland and it's economy back.

     

    That the Scottish Government has been a success and is becoming steadily more so is best reflected in the changing economic and population profiles of Scotland from decades of decline and large scale net out migration to a stabilisation and then a turn around to a rising population. It's been summed up in the past as 'Scottish solutions to Scottish problems', but upsides of smaller government entities is more accountability, because government is closer to the people and this has lead to better government.

     

    Decisions taken since devolution to invest in various strands of prevention and early intervention in health issues, has lead to NHS Scotland delivering improving outcomes on less spend per head than in England. The Scottish Government is also a much more cohesive unit than the various English departments of state that form much of HM Government, this has lead to greater efficiencies in government. These things add up, and it's partly why the SG was able to shift 'revenue expenditure' to capital projects to maintain capital expenditure in Scotland when the man with 'the long term economic plan' was slashing UK capital expenditure from 2010 onwards.

     

    The Scottish Government is delivering a 20+ year blueprint for taking Scotland's transport networks from an under-resourced inadequate and overlooked regional network to creating a true national intercity road and rail network for Scotland. Major road and rail investment is happening across Scotland, with a view to spreading economic growth and opportunity more evenly. I could do a big list, but the fact is people are feeling the benefit of the projects already delivered, are seeing the work being done on those under construction and in planning.

     

    Don't underestimate the powerful appeal to voters of having a government that treat's Scotland as a nation and is providing the national infrastructure that goes along with that, when they look back at how Labour and Tories alike previously treated Scotland as a fairly inconsequential region.

    Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    If the majority views on here appear appear one sided on here its because the other side are to ashamed to speak or for themselves.

    You've made my point even more abundantly clear with your post. Its exactly this kind of post that puts people off from contributing.

    Re. NR's post, I wasn't actually referring to individual members, rather a core of members. With reference to SS, and I hope I don't speak out of turn, I've personally learnt more about the mechanics of Scottish politics by reading his posts than any Wikipedia source for sure!

    The under current seems to be quite often that if one's views do not conform to a certain stance then they are automatically ignored or at worst dismissed with an attitude bordering on contempt by some, and as a quick edit, just to add that from a forum team/guidelines perspective, this is unacceptable

    Edited by ajpoolshark
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    You've made my point even more abundantly clear with your post. Its exactly this kind of post that puts people off from contributing.

    Re. NR's post, I wasn't actually referring to individual members, rather a core of members. With reference to SS, and I hope I don't speak out of turn, I've personally learnt more about the mechanics of Scottish politics by reading his posts than any Wikipedia source for sure!

    The under current seems to be quite often that if one's views do not conform to a certain stance then they are automatically ignored or at worst dismissed with an attitude bordering on contempt by some, and as a quick edit, just to add that from a forum team/guidelines perspective, this is unacceptable

    I just don't see what the solution is to be? What are people suggesting that members do in order to address this? If there are workable suggestions, I'd certainly hope that they are implemented.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    I just don't see what the solution is to be? What are people suggesting that members do in order to address this? If there are workable suggestions, I'd certainly hope that they are implemented.

    For some, being more tolerant of opposing viewpoints would help a good deal, it might encourage more people to post?...political discussion is always very emotive and is a fundemental part of our lives I guess, and it can bring out the worst (and the best) in all of us. This thread is basically split into 3 camps, one which combines the wish for Indy with SNP political beliefs, one which wishes Indy regardless of party political leanings, and one which wishes continuation of the union....perhaps separate sub threads might be an idea?....that probably dilutes the discussion though.....above all, as I mentioned earlier, a bit more courtesy by some posters would go a long way :)

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    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.

    Tbh, I think this thread runs pretty well. It is one sided but hey ho. Either: you chose to ignore some articles/links (more importantly, the derogotary comments that come with them - just political comments, which is fine) or you chose to argue. If I have a spare few hours, it can be quite entertaining ck strutting a reply knowing fine well it will be replied to almost immediately and seen by a few people.

    If you believe in something strong enough you should be able to 'debate' them, even if it ends up on a "agree to disagree" result.

    I have mentioned before that one, possibly a couple posters have made comments which were unacceptable, a la 'traitors' and 'ashamed', 'hope they're happy with what they've done'....

    Firstly, it just comes across a rather childish if you ask me.

    Secondly, if I were a NO voter, would I give two flying proverbials what some other anonymous poster thought.

    I wonder how well it would go down if I started openly slated someone's 'blind faith' in God.... All the wars as a result.

    Not great if imagine (and rightly so).

    Maybe that poster should think more objectively and rationally about what he's posting in future.

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    Posted
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion

     

    Personally, I am fed up to the back teeth with Sturgeon, Salmond, and the SNP generally. The referendum is over. They lost. Now they'd do well to address their own failures as a government before bleating on about independence yet again.

     

    You mean like this?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34277913

    The sentiments expressed therein may not be universal, but as I have often pointed out, Holyrood is to rural Scotland what - some argue - Westminster is to Scotland.

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Tbh, I think this thread runs pretty well. It is one sided but hey ho. 

     

    Good post.

     

    Aye, but as I've said plenty of times, it reflects the users of this type of media.

     

    If the mainstream press was more balanced, it probably wouldn't have worked out this way.

     

    All English papers are against Scottish independence, as is are the English TV channels. Both are sold / broadcast in Scotland (the BBC of course falls into this group with academic studies showing its bias, so any BBC articles need to be understood in this context).

     

    The vast majority of Scottish titles are also anti-independence; this being a result of their control by English media organisations and/or long term links to unionist parties which, until recently, dominated the political scene in Scotland.

     

    All we have is the one Sunday paper (Sunday Herald) and now one daily (The National) which back indy and none which e.g. are long term backers of the SNP (in the way the Scotsman is (shy) Tory and the Record is Labour...).

     

    Add in that support for independence is strongest in younger groups with only the over 65's backing the union now in any sort of strength, and...

     

    The independence movement developed a strong online presence / it heavily dominates social media such as facebook, forums, twitter etc. It also exists mainly in the form of websites, blogs etc.

     

    So, this thread is balanced; it reflects the situation online.

     

    If you want to find a strong presence of No voters, a bowling club in the southern borders is where to head.

     

    (EDIT and just at that moment, mardatha posts, making me feel slightly ashamed at the above but at the same time pleased that all is not lost with that age group!).

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Ancrum
  • Weather Preferences: HOT SUNSHINE!
  • Location: Ancrum

    Not been in here for a while due to health issues and stunned to see that people who post honestly and passionately about their feelings are being picked on. I thought you lot were men lol not wee girls blouses. If MS feels that no voters are traitors and ashamed then he's entitled to his opinion and to say it. Godsake I'm a wee 65 yr old granny, I can argue and enjoy a good insult throwing match -  don't nanny us!

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

    Lord above, wind your neck in and stop trying to play victim.

    What's your question? I'll gladly oblige if only to stop the big bad ScottishSkier.

    I asked my question. I got called a troll and a lizard in reply. Do you want to be an adult or shall I treat you likewise?
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    Posted
  • Location: Derbyshire Peak District South Pennines Middleton & Smerrill Tops 305m (1001ft) asl.
  • Location: Derbyshire Peak District South Pennines Middleton & Smerrill Tops 305m (1001ft) asl.

    Come on chaps, Lets keep it friendly in here.

    Edited by Polar Maritime
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    Not been in here for a while due to health issues and stunned to see that people who post honestly and passionately about their feelings are being picked on. I thought you lot were men lol not wee girls blouses. If MS feels that no voters are traitors and ashamed then he's entitled to his opinion and to say it. Godsake I'm a wee 65 yr old granny, I can argue and enjoy a good insult throwing match -  don't nanny us!

    With respect, this is weather forum with posting guidelines. Name calling, insults, and deliberately provocative posts are against these guidelines and as such may be subject to removal without prior notice...this information is in the forum guidelines which all members agreed to uphold when first joining the forum....I can't say it any clearer I'm afraid
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

    If you want to find a strong presence of No voters, a bowling club in the southern borders is where to head.

    So, you're going to trade in cheap insulting stereotypes now are you?

    For the record I don't play bowls.

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    SS it depends what you mean by "a strong presence". Bearing in mind that the majority of the polls show around a 50:50 split (allowing for MoE) surely you'd need to look as far to find Yes voters? I come across many of both persuasion. I've not actually met anyone personally who has changed their opinion post-referendum (on either side) although the polls do suggest they are "out there".

    Edited by doctormog
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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    If the majority views on here appear appear one sided on here its because the other side are to ashamed to speak or for themselves.

    I think another reason is they could have been bullied out or felt they have been. I have seen posts on here that sail very close to the wind of obnoxiousness. Been accused of a troll or a reptile or replies given with pure arrogance, don't bring this thread into a good light.

    And I don't accept they need to develop a thick skin.

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