Jump to content
Cold?
Local
Radar
Snow?

Scottish Politics 2011-2017


Recommended Posts

Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Thinking of taking a trip up your way next month. I hope it's safe. 

     

    Basically, follow standard safari park rules. Keep your windows shut, the doors locked, with engine always running and you should be ok.  :)

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Spotted a post you think may be an issue? Please help the team by reporting it.
    • Replies 30.9k
    • Created
    • Last Reply

    Top Posters In This Topic

    • Scottish-Irish Skier

      8874

    • mountain shadow

      1528

    • skifreak

      1435

    • frogesque

      1306

    Top Posters In This Topic

    Popular Posts

    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

    Posted Images

    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     SS insignia

     

     

    Where did people think my forum handle came from? I've never actually skied in my life. Simple subterfuge. :diablo:

    • Like 2
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Nominations just opened and already 5 candidates vying for top 2 spots on the Labour regional list for May 2016.

     

    I wonder how many it will reach before nominations close. We could have like 37 candidates competing for leader and deputy leader of the north British branch office (© Johann Lamont).

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33133054

     

    If polls do pan out, it's quite likely that all three unionist party leaders are unable to get elected in a constituency, instead relying on the PR regional list.

     

    ---

     

    Oh, and that Starkey guy is an SNP sleeper agent right?

     

    Here's his recent attempt to push more people towards Scottish indy on video:

     

    http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#[email protected]/oreKqbgCZTaJ2A

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Also, on the subject of an independent Scottish Labour party, how Labour are in something of a dammed if the do, dammed if they don't position.

     

    From Lallands Peat Warrior who's worth a read on all things legal re indy, in addition to other musings.

     

    http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/the-scotland-to-be-regained-is-not.html

     

    The Scotland to be regained is not a Braveheart nation
     
    Aspiration, lionising "wealth creators", punching coal miners -- the UK Labour leadership election is in full uninspiring swing. And political triangulation is once again the order of the day...
     
    ....For Scottish Labour to premise its general election campaign on these tangled, embittered -- and I would argue -- essentially misplaced diagnoses was remarkable. Murphy hoped to ride a wave of national sentiment which does not exist. At least not with anything like the force and intensity he seemed to imagine.  The average elector is not the cybernat of hated preoccupation. Scottish Labour's problems are not due to the perceived dearth of their patriotism, but to arrogance, ideological drift, triangulation, laziness and organisational hollowness. The Scotland to be regained is not a Braveheart nation. 
     
    Forming an independent Scottish Labour party would be a historical blunder of even bigger proportions. Let's hope they make it. 

     

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I understand the amendment to ensure the permanency of the Scottish Parliament - as agreed by the Smith Commission - has just been voted down.

     

    #GreatBritishDemocracy #indyref2

     

    EDIT. This was what was voted down:

     

     

    Clause 1, page 1, leave out lines 7 and 8 and insert— 

     

    “(1A) The Scottish Parliament is a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitution.

     

    (1B) Subsection (1) or (1A) may be repealed only if— (a) the Scottish Parliament has consented to the proposed repeal, and (b) a referendum has been held in Scotland on the proposed repeal and a majority of those voting at the referendum have consented to it.â€

     

    Member’s explanatory statement This amendment is to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can only be abolished with the consent of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people after a referendum.

     

    Edited by scottish skier
    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    I understand the amendment to ensure the permanency of the Scottish Parliament - as agreed by the Smith Commission - has just been voted down.

     

    #GreatBritishDemocracy #indyref2

     

    EDIT. This was what was voted down:

    Bloody hell! So what's next? Send in the tanks?

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Bloody hell! So what's next? Send in the tanks?

     

    Lol. Just need a few RPGs, some kalashnikovs and turbans (if you fancy) to see off that.

     

    Tories are playing a very dangerous game though. Democracy works until the government stops being democratic. When it does that, it gives permission to the opposition to that government to do likewise.

     

    Ireland's independence is a local case in point.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    BBC now questioning if 50 (SNP vote 2015) to 70%+ (rated Sturgeon in polls) of the population of Scotland really are Nazis.

     

    I give the union a few years at most.

     

    https://twitter.com/BBCScot2015/status/610522981656358912

    post-9421-0-00709900-1434400188_thumb.pn

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL

    I'll tell you something. Scotland will be an independent country and by that I mean a real independent country. And I say that as an Englishman. Let me explain. I used to be a British unionist (well still am really but I'm also a realist) and last year I was against the idea of Scottish separation. I have since come to realise that there is no such countries as the UK, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, France, Germany, Poland, Spain, Portugal or Austria anyway. NO the country we live in is called the European Union and European citizenship is the only citizenship we have for now. Anything else is just pretend now. Oh and forget this referendum we're supposed to have next year anybody who desires to be a Scottish or British citizen will lose as the yes side will con the majority to stay. I know that you Scots are apparently generally less eurosceptic than us English but at the same time I don't think this will last. Why you might ask. Well you are undoubtedly one of the most patriotic nations on earth so are less likely to in the end roll over. You know who you are and what your about. You have REAL substance to your national identity. And I believe eventually you'll realise Scotland can't be independent until you leave the EU. Forget the UK there is no such state anymore, not really. Even if you had voted yes last year you wouldn't have become independent anyway besides from pretend tokenism. This is what I don't get about the SNP. They're fakes, they're stringing you along.

    If you really want independence support a party that truly wants it or create one to combat their sell out mentality. The people of England will not vote no next year, Scotland almost certainly won't and Wales probably won't either (Northern Ireland might though but been part of the UK this will be irrelevant). The appetite for it is too small, weak and it is only supported mostly by bigots and racists this side of the border. We have UKIP but although they have a reasonable leadership they unfortunately attract support from too many undesirables like ex BNP supporters for example. The country formerly known as Britain no longer exists and it hasn't since 1975. We have been playing make believe ever since. Ever closer union is the aim of the EU. It aims to become the state of the European people, in fact it already is. Most just don't realise it yet. If your ok with that like Sturgeon and Salmond (that's if they realise, which I presume they do) then keep voting SNP. If not and you really want Scotland to be an independent country again (like I now do, but only in the context that it may be temporarily necessary for greater British harmony. In the end Britain will be united again after Scottish nationalism has run its course and the people of these islands who are ultimately one will forget our so called differences and want that. But I believe Scottish, Welsh and even English nationalism won't run out of steam until they've been given their turn. Otherwise they'll be a constant thorn in the side of British unity. You may say that the Irish don't want to come back but until they were members of the EEC now EU they were struggling. If the EU eventually breaks up which it might because of even more diverse nationalities than exist on these islands they may reject the Irish state and desire another British state with them as members, but I'm talking here of a future generation, maybe a far off one.) then I suggest you vote for a party that does, abstain or create a true independence rival (hopefully not a far right one). I know that most of you will think I'm talking nonsense but I suggest you do a little research and see the bigger picture. You may want independence from Westminster, but they barely run Scotland anymore, in fact they barely run the UK anymore. In fact it's Brussels and Strasbourg you need independence from and that includes all European nations. We don't need a European state nobody does except career politicians so they can make more money. Oh it prevents European wars some might say. Well as long as the countries of Europe are democratic states with no territorial ambitions outside their own borders that would never happen. It's no different to the argument that England and Scotland have to be united under a single state or else they will end up in the battlefield. Again as long as we are both free democratic countries this should never happen. So this is a false argument. This is why I think Scotland can perhaps and I emphasise perhaps (due to it's civic version of nationalism as opposed to most other EU states) lead the way.

    Edited by WALSALL SNOW
    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    BBC now questioning if 50 (SNP vote 2015) to 70%+ (rated Sturgeon in polls) of the population of Scotland really are Nazis.

     

    I give the union a few years at most.

     

    https://twitter.com/BBCScot2015/status/610522981656358912

    This is getting beyond the joke.

    Are they trying to stoke up civil unrest? I can think of no other reason.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Stupid question so here goes, can the HOL in their reading of the Scotland Bill amend it with a new permanency clause?  HOL has ex Labour Scottish MPs who must realize the tide of political awareness sweeping through the country.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Stupid question so here goes, can the HOL in their reading of the Scotland Bill amend it with a new permanency clause?  HOL has ex Labour Scottish MPs who must realize the tide of political awareness sweeping through the country.

     

    They can, but whether they will is another matter.

     

    For example, Labour abstained on FFA last night. They're all over the place; one minute they are dead against FFA, then they are abstaining when they get an actual chance to vote on it.

     

    They've no idea what they stand for other than opposing the SNP.

     

    They got their asses whipped in May, but don't think they can't fall further. Some possible evidence in recent polls that they are now as low as or even behind the Tories in Scotland. That's crazy, but possible.

     

    Of course if polls continue to show something like that, so those scrabbling for what list seats might still be won will act ever more irrationally whilst fighting amongst themselves even more.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Also, on the subject of an independent Scottish Labour party, how Labour are in something of a dammed if the do, dammed if they don't position.

     

    From Lallands Peat Warrior who's worth a read on all things legal re indy, in addition to other musings.

     

    He's got a good point. It'd be extremely difficult for any 'Independent' Scottish Labour Party (ISLP) to support a rUK Labour party in Westminster as to get elected each would almost certainly have to head in different directions on policy. The Scottish electorate wouldn't vote for an ISLP if they thought that it would blindly support the policies of a more right wing Labour Party.

     

    The only thing an ISLP might do is shore up their position in the Scottish parliament, which is maybe about as much as they can hope for currently. Personally I can't see them having the sense or guts to do it though. The only way I can see an ISLP happening is through a 'rebel' breakaway. Could that happen? Not sure, but there's going to be a lot of very unhappy Labour list MSPs soon when they are bumped off, or down, the lost for May 2016.

     

    I understand the amendment to ensure the permanency of the Scottish Parliament - as agreed by the Smith Commission - has just been voted down.

     

    The reality is, no matter what Westminster might want to believe, the Scottish Parliament is permanent as long as the Scottish people want it to be. The day that Westminster tries to dissolve it against the will of the majority of the Scottish people will be the first day of a newly independent Scotland. They wouldn't even try as the fallout across the UK would be massive.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    All the while Murphy is allowed to call Scots 'insurgents' in their own country there will never, ever be an ISLP. I know he's gone but he still has influence (or should that be effluence) on policy.

     

    The Branch Office will continue. Pacific Quay will chunter on about how wonderful SLAB are and the basic SNP bad, badder, baddest bile will still be spouted. Meanwhile, Westminster, with its 10/1 majority will carry on and ignore us. 

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    This is why I worry about possible civil unrest in Scotland Frog, I don't say it without great reservations.

     

    If Wesminster continues to deny the democratic will of the Scottish people then any historian will tell you what is likely to happen next.

     

    Do we reall want a Sinn Fein type party in Scotland? I would think not.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Ancrum
  • Weather Preferences: HOT SUNSHINE!
  • Location: Ancrum

    Maybe the fear of a SF- type party in Scotland will help us though... :diablo:

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    This is why I worry about possible civil unrest in Scotland Frog, I don't say it without great reservations.

     

    If Wesminster continues to deny the democratic will of the Scottish people then any historian will tell you what is likely to happen next.

     

    Do we reall want a Sinn Fein type party in Scotland? I would think not.

    Absolutely not!

     

    Westminster is pushing buttons. Solve the problem of the 'Scotch' by treating us with contempt then burying us behind the EU ref. We must not rise to the bait.

     

    Rather, I think we should do as Nicola has done, raise our profile Euorope wide and world wide. Show what we have to offer, talk up our arts, cuture, hospitality, food and drink. Point to the Commonwealth games, the New Forth Crossing, Falkirk Wheel and the Kellpies. Our magnificent scenery, rivers and lochs.

     

    Start our own institutions, with or without London's blessing. Take control of the State run propaganda machines and insist on even handedness.

     

    In short do what we do best, be oursleves and win elections!

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Absolutely not!

     

    Westminster is pushing buttons. Solve the problem of the 'Scotch' by treating us with contempt then burying us behind the EU ref. We must not rise to the bait.

     

     

    History is that Scotland doesn't rise to the bait, but civil commotion or political violence would be the UK's unionist establishment's trump 'SNP bad' card. Pressing the buttons to provide the cover of plausible deniability for a false flag incident or two? 

     

    It's clear that Scotland will not get DevoMax aka full fiscal autonomy within the UK. Kezia Dugdale made that clear on the Daily Politics, about the only thing she was clear on as it fits well with the 'SNP bad narrative'. She said that Labour would never support FFA, she didn't believe the Scottish people supported it either, then implied if they did they were wrong!

     

    Thus Scotland was sold a pup with the Vow, but Labour and the Tories seem to be banking on that forced to into a binary choice between Indy and the future status quo of  a watered down implementation of the Smith Commission, Scots will choice the Union. 

     

    The party that stood on a manifesto commitment to FFA secured 50% of the vote and 56 of 59 seats it contested, but the UK Parliament voted FFA down TWICE this week. The challenge for Yes is not to get riled at the contempt shown at Westminster, but to continue working to persuade those who want FFA that the only way Scotland can secure those powers for itself is through Independence. 

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL

    Just to add to my post yesterday. I believe it's inevitable that Scotland will become independent. Probably in the not so very distant future. Well separate from Westminster politics I mean. You will still be under the thumb of Brussels. That's the point I believe euroscepticism will grow up there and you will really want true independance (every EU state has an independance party. Some are good and some are evil. I hope you develop a good one). I think this will be both good and necessary for your self reliance. I might also add that I will always be a British unionist at heart but I have come to realise that the union probably won't last too much longer. Simply because the desire to separate has been growing momentum now for a number of decades and this is getting stronger all the time. Ultimately though I believe it's the destiny of the peoples of these islands to be united, but before then I think Scotland will be independent first. Then eventually and I think it will be a long time, there will be a growing (maybe slowly at first) some sort of political movement for a British union again. That union will break up down the line and then there'll be another. Round and round we go. You see I believe in cycles. Indeed nature is full of them. Indeed I think everything is a cycle and that includes politics. Just look at the obvious. Everything that rises ultimately descends again then goes back up. Summer turns to Winter then back again. Round and round forever and ever. Probably best to just go with it.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I'd agree Walsall with respect to 'cycles'.

     

    Empires rise and fall, unions form then break-up. New empires and unions follow.

     

    As I've said many times, the UK union was formed to build an empire. The age of empires is over, for now at least, and we are in an age of free trade unions of varying forms.

     

    This makes the UK union without obvious purpose. If Scotland wants to be part of a free trade union, we'll it has the EU for a start. Right now, it has no clear voice in the EU, no seat at the main table (Council of Europe), no opportunity to chair the EU like e.g. little Ireland has done. As an independent country, Scotland would be able to have it's own voice in the EU, UN etc but most importantly, be able to choose itself whether to be in the EU or not.

     

    Being in a union can make some sense. Being in a union within a union makes much less sense, particularly when you are not represented properly in either, as is currently the case for Scotland.

     

    If you have followed this thread / the news, you'll see that Scottish MPs currently have no say in UK governance. In fact Scotland is arguably better represented at the EU where MEPs from other countries are not acting intentionally to exclude Scots MEPs and e.g. voting to allow the dissolution of the Scottish parliament as rUK MPs just did.

     

    Personally, I am an a Eurosceptic Europhile; part of the problem of being a moderate social democrat! I see the purpose of the EU and the good things it brings, but at the same time I'm not oblivious to the problems it could have if e.g. over centralised. I am certainly not supportive of 'ever closer union' to a federal EU superstate.

     

    The main difference I see between the UK union and the EU Union is that the former has no purpose now while the latter does. The UK union for me hangs on due to sentimental value and fear of change in many respects because, as I said, it's purpose is gone. Add in the growing cross border differences in political opinion, and parting company looks like the best way forward, for sometimes staying together makes for a greater mess.

     

    Personally, I think the cross-border relationship and potential for mutually beneficial co-operation would be best served by Scottish independence. After all, the fundamental basis for successful unity is equality.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    WALSALL SNOW:

     

    The modern world is interconnected whether anyone likes to believe it or not. Scotland isn't an Amish community. We are a fully fledged  industrialised Nation. We have no need to be subservient but to suggest any one country (least of all a bankrupt England with little natural resource) can be absolute masters of their own destiny is either dangerously smug or hysterically deluded. We will make our own allegiances as we see fit at any given time.

     

    The Union has endured 300 years or so, most of it being against Scotland's interests, at least for the common people. Should (when!) we gain our independence it would take a very long time and a peculiar set of circumstances for Scotland to subjugate itself again so that her rescources (the most important being pure water) can be raped by a wanton greedy neighbour.

     

    We have no need of a heriditary family that puts itself above others, a House of Lords that sits unelected yet compelling us how our lives should be run nor do we need a public school system that relies on who you know and what you can pay rather than intellect and merit.

     

    Most importantly though we simply want to be able to choose how we run our own country, It's that most conservative of Conservative ideals : self determination.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.

    WALSALL SNOW:

    The modern world is interconnected whether anyone likes to believe it or not. Scotland isn't an Amish community. We are a fully fledged industrialised Nation. We have no need to be subservient but to suggest any one country (least of all a bankrupt England with little natural resource) can be absolute masters o their own destiny is either dangerously smug or hysterically deluded. We will make our own allegiances as we see fit at any given time.

    The Union has endured 300 years or so, most of it being against Scotland's interests, at least for the common people. Should (when!) we gain our independence it would take a very long time and a peculiar set of circumstances for Scotland to subjugate itself again so that her rescources (the most important being pure water) can be raped by a wanton greedy neighbour.

    We have no need of a heriditary family that puts itself above others, a House of Lords that sits unelected yet compelling us how our lives should be run nor do we need a public school system that relies on who you know and what you can pay rather than intellect and merit.

    Most importantly though we simply want to be able to choose how we run our own country, It's that most conservative of Conservative ideals : self determination

    So you are unequivocal that an independent Scotland would want to abolish the monarchy? Or is that just your hope...?

    You think there would be no private schools in an independent Scotland? Or is that just your hope...?

    The Lords can replaced but we are yet to know what should (would) replace it. Its lack of party affiliation and scrutiny of legislation would be aspects which should be allowed to continue in whatever replaces it.

    Pretty confident a majority don't agree (well I'm unequivocal about that) but what I mean is 'being independent for the sake of being independant' this view has attracted circa 1/3 support.

    The extra 12% was from economic, social and political reasons and not from some utopian ideal. So I disagree that 'we' all want this.

    A majority don't (or don't view it as the main factor) even if we had voted YES

    Edited by SW Saltire
    • Like 2
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Guest
    This topic is now closed to further replies.
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...