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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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I'm hearing Ruth Davidson is being questioned 'under caution' regarding the electoral fraud issue with the No campaign. 

 

Awaiting more info.

I have performed duty at many elections and polling stations and in my experience electoral fraud is alien to the normal British way of doing things, though not altogether unknown but these cases are rare.

 

It may be that a mountain is being made out of a molehill here but no doubt we all have to await the results of the investigations before reading too much into it. 

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    I have performed duty at many elections and polling stations and in my experience electoral fraud is alien to the normal British way of doing things, though not altogether unknown but these cases are rare.

     

    It may be that a mountain is being made out of a molehill here but no doubt we all have to await the results of the investigations before reading too much into it.

    It's relating to secrecy / sampling of postal votes which on the face of it has nothing to do with the count which was conducted excellently.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I have performed duty at many elections and polling stations and in my experience electoral fraud is alien to the normal British way of doing things, though not altogether unknown but these cases are rare.

     

    It may be that a mountain is being made out of a molehill here but no doubt we all have to await the results of the investigations before reading too much into it.

    Well Mike, I personally doubt the Better Together campaign having had a sneaky peak at the postal votes will have impacted on the referendum, however, I'm sure we can all agree that the fact it happened is against all democratic process we hopefully hold dear.

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Had a great conversation among a group of young Highland folk tonight, 11 of us in total (5 new SNP members, 2 new Greens) discussing the possibilities of Green energy, community land ownership and continuing growth in the booming Highland capital. Refreshingly democratic / meaningful discussions taking place in the "seshes", pubs and clubs these days.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/civil-war-looms-as-lamont-backs-devolution-for-scottish-labour.25442761

     

    Civil war looms as Lamont backs devolution for Scottish Labour
     
    JOHANN Lamont yesterday won support for a major review of Scottish Labour's relationship with Ed Miliband's UK party.
     
    The probe is expected to consider devolving control of MPs' selection contests to Scotland, a controversial issue that could spark a civil war with her Westminster colleagues.

     

     
     
    I suspect this is Labour MSPs preparing to protect their jobs from Westminster MPs who believe they're looking at P45s in May 15.
     
    Another 16 point lead for the SNP over Labour in Yougov Westminster VI subset this morning. Remarkable.
     
    Ed's Scottish satisfaction ratings:
     
    21% Sat
    74% Unsat
    -53% NET
     
    Dave's a hero by comparison at 31/63 (-32 NET).
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    So SS, 'Scottish' Labour are proposing full Devo Max after all, but only within their own party.

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  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    So SS, 'Scottish' Labour are proposing full Devo Max after all, but only within their own party.

     

    And only to protect their own jobs. That sounds similar to something I've seen recently, but I can't put my finger on it.

    Edited by CatchMyDrift
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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    I'm hearing Ruth Davidson is being questioned 'under caution' regarding the electoral fraud issue with the No campaign. 

     

    Awaiting more info.

     

     

    Seems that both sides were up to this:

     

     

    I hope that appropriate enquiries include Mr Yousaf as well...

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Seems that both sides were up to this:

     

    I hope that appropriate enquiries include Mr Yousaf as well...

     

    I'm not seeing any clear evidence of 'both sides', nor mention of anything from Police Scotland (just investigating No for now). Time may tell.

     

    I note Yousaf is talking at a time when counting was underway and sampling permitted (i.e. taking a rough tally and extrapolating), not in the weeks before.

     

    Postal ballots are the first to be opened as they are already at counting stations. 'On the day' votes arrive by courier and need to be sorted out / checked off etc before being counted.

     

    Although I agree that anyone involved should be in trouble.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    From the Herald article linked above:

    Scottish Labour councillors also pay a portion of their salary to the party, cash that currently goes south.

    Sound familiar !

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    Another rally, this one "for a revote" today. It seems like a vocal small minority do not wish to accept the poll result. Sampling of postal votes aside none of the other allegations of irregularities have stood up to scrutiny and have been rejected by official observers from both Yes and No campaigns.

    So why not move on and accept that the vote for independence was a clear No and campaign for the best for Scotland as part of the UK? (I believe this is what yesterday's rally was for?)

    Edited by doctormog
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    I think its pretty obvious that whatever Westminster comes up with regarding devolved powers will be rubbished by the SNP so as to continue to keep the narrative going of reneging on promises.

     

    This narrative of course helps going into the GE where the SNP want to unseat Labour and Lib Dems, I'm not blaming them for this course of action as all parties will do what they can to win.

     

    Essentially at some point Scots will have to make a choice as to whether they're willing to accept whats been offered or not. The price for staying within the UK means a compromise of sorts.

     

    It's obvious that Devo Max would be a last resort offer to Scots if another referendum happened, politically Westminster doesn't want to have to play that joker unless its absolutely essential.

     

    .

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Seems that both sides were up to this:

    I hope that appropriate enquiries include Mr Yousaf as well...

    Two differences (from what I can see) - it wasn't 'weeks before' and it wasn't discussed prior to 10PM.

    The crime is openly discussing it.

    Edited by NorthernRab
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Two differences (from what I can see) - it wasn't 'weeks before' and it wasn't discussed prior to 10PM.

    The crime is openly discussing it.

     

    He seems to be discussing sampling of the postal votes once the count was underway, not from before.

     

    When he spoke, it was 2.5 hours after the polls closed. By that point, most if not all the postal votes would have been formally counted and legitimate sampling would allow projections based upon that.

     

    That's why there are no gasps of shock, unlike what happened with Ruth a couple of weeks before the vote.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Essentially at some point Scots will have to make a choice as to whether they're willing to accept whats been offered or not. 

     

     

    In the Sun on Sunday, DC says devo plan is to have Scotland raising and spending all it's own cash.

     

    That can only occur with Devo max, including powers over all tax and spending, including borrowing, also oil and gas revenues (one of Scotland's largest industries so impossible to be fiscally autonomous without that).

     

    That's what 74% want (vs 18% against) and the concept is well defined, going back over 7 years since it was first proposed.

     

    I think people would expect the SNP to say what's offered is not enough. I mean the SNP support erm, independence... I imagine most people in Scotland understand this, particularly given recent events.

     

    You are correct though; it is the people who will decide if what is offered is enough. If e.g. oil and gas is not devolved, they will likely reject what's offered. Given that the unionists have been telling them for years now that oil and gas is not worth having, people will expect no issues with devolving it.

     

    I support devolution of everything and expect full sovereignty - as promised - so that powers can never be removed from the parliament / it can't be overruled by Westminster. It seems the population larely agree - it was the promise of devo max that saved the union at the last minute; both campaigns own polling showing Yes taking the lead. Hence the vow.

     

    In the Sunday times, BT's own pollster, Populus, says â€œto turn these voters away from Yes, it took the guarantee of extra powers for the Scottish Parliament.â€

     

    He's talking about the 15% or so who would have voted Yes but for the guarantee of more powers.

     

    Interesting times.

     

    EDIT of course the more devolved Scotland is, the easier it becomes to be independent. e.g. Pensions? Paid by Holyrood so why the concern? 

     

    Also interesting how Labour's vote is apparently collapsing in Scotland. Seems Ed being the most fervently against devolution is fuelling this as much as working with the Tories in the referendum campaign.

     

    Dave's playing a blinder here; hence he's more popular than Ed in Scotland and folk are apparently planning to give the SNP a landslide in May 2015.

     

    rockhard.jpg

     

    As of 5 hours ago, another 1k overnight new SNP members taking the total to 69, 263. That's 1.65% of the total electorate now. Incredible.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Another rally, this one "for a revote" today. It seems like a vocal small minority do not wish to accept the poll result. Sampling of postal votes aside none of the other allegations of irregularities have stood up to scrutiny and have been rejected by official observers from both Yes and No campaigns.

    So why not move on and accept that the vote for independence was a clear No and campaign for the best for Scotland as part of the UK? (I believe this is what yesterday's rally was for?)

     

    Maybe you need to move on yourself?

     

    Seems you are becoming a bit obsessed by small minorities.

     

    Is the rally near your house / causing you problems or something?

     

    The Police are investigating apparent No campaign serious electoral fraud at the moment; doesn't matter what campaigns say. Its the police/Crown Office and the EC which will decide whether there's a problem or not.

     

    --

     

    EDIT, SNP now 70,000 members. Will soon be three times the size they were on iref day.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    Maybe you need to move on yourself?

     

    Seems you are becoming a bit obsessed by small minorities.

     

    Is the rally near your house / causing you problems or something?

     

    The Police are investigating apparent No campaign serious electoral fraud at the moment; doesn't matter what campaigns say. Its the police/Crown Office and the EC which will decide whether there's a problem or not.

     

    --

     

    EDIT, SNP now 70,000 members. Will soon be three times the size they were on iref day.

    Sorry for commenting. I won't make that mistake again.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Sorry for commenting. I won't make that mistake again.

     

    Oh the faux hurt.

     

    Jeez man, just bit of ribbing...

     

    Seems those who support indy can take jibes - plenty of 'you should accept the result and move on' comments on here for a start. Surely you can too?

     

    I can add smiley faces if that's not obvious enough from tone.

     

    A sore winner is as bad as a sore loser in the end, and the unionists are very much coming across as the former, even though independence supporters have accepted the result in vast majority and have moved on to campaigning as part of the 74% for Devo Max and in the hope of potential indy in the future. 

     

    If the SNP were demanding an immediate re-count / re-vote, then I think people would have grounds to be annoyed. That's not obviously happening, so I fail to see why anyone would be getting worked up at a small group of people doing so. You were the one to point out another rally - I had no idea there even was one.

     

    Lighten up; we could have a real show coming in May 15. Possibility of many 1997 Portillo moments and the end of an era.

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Wrong thread...sorry.

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Nationalism.

     

    _77876003_77875427.jpg

     

    1af59f2f-8704-4754-8315-847f72accefe-460

     

    I think we can now safely say Labour have joined the Tories as a nationalist party. 

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Oh the faux hurt.

     

    Jeez man, just bit of ribbing...

     

    Seems those who support indy can take jibes - plenty of 'you should accept the result and move on' comments on here for a start. Surely you can too?

     

    I can add smiley faces if that's not obvious enough from tone.

     

    A sore winner is as bad as a sore loser in the end, and the unionists are very much coming across as the former, even though independence supporters have accepted the result in vast majority and have moved on to campaigning as part of the 74% for Devo Max and in the hope of potential indy in the future. 

     

    If the SNP were demanding an immediate re-count / re-vote, then I think people would have grounds to be annoyed. That's not obviously happening, so I fail to see why anyone would be getting worked up at a small group of people doing so. You were the one to point out another rally - I had no idea there even was one.

     

    Lighten up; we could have a real show coming in May 15. Possibility of many 1997 Portillo moments and the end of an era.

     

    ... a post that almost makes me wish YES had won.  :nea:

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Good article from Kevin McKenna in the Guardian.

     

    The 'Labour in serious trouble' articles keep coming.

     

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/27/labour-in-scotland-dying-does-anyone-care

     

    Labour in Scotland is dying. Does anybody care?
     
    Preoccupied with their Westminster careers, the party’s newly ennobled grandees are busy condemning it to the twilight zone.
     
    Kevin obviously was previously a strong unionist Labour man.
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  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Is it just me or Labour slowly shifting from leftist Red to Pink?

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Is it just me or Labour slowly shifting from leftist Red to Pink?

     

    Labour haven't been "leftist Red" for at least 17 years. Where have you been?

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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Is it just me or Labour slowly shifting from leftist Red to Pink?

     

    I've highlighted this transition over the past few years on here.

     

    The red backgrounds and rose of socialism have slowly been faded out, with instead the union jack brought to the fore. It is now centrepiece and actually used in logos (one nation Labour).

     

    Using actual union jack red would make it look like a full on Tory conference given the increasing use of centre-right blue, so the 'off-red' is used instead.

     

    We now have a situation where the main 2 UK parties are right-nationalist (even though the UK is independent). Labour were previously centre-left 'international' socialist in supposed stance prior to Blair. They even in the past mixed the socialist red with yellow for liberal as they once were; something you still see in Scottish Labour material.

     

    UKIP are also right-nationalist, but still holding on to past symbolism associated with the original party which were actually modest centre-left liberal; hence the yellow in UKIP symbolism. The purple may well be a merge of left red and blue right indicating this previous moderate centre stance before Farage et al. took over. There has however been increasing use of the union flag in their campaign material.

     

    The Lib dems, being a socially liberal party, have stuck to yellow and no use of flags in logos etc like the SNP, although you will see the Lib Dem yellow has become more orange as they've moved to strong right under the orange bookers; orange being the international colour of the centre-right social liberals.

     

    The SNP retains its standard light yellow as per a social democratic liberal 'centre' party, with little to no use of the saltire in logo / election material; any use being limited to non party political stuff regarding the constitution / independence as per other pro-indy parties.

    Edited by scottish skier
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