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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    What......They don't have journalists with cameras in S.A? We have already seen USA planes taking off and USA missiles being fired. Indeed even filming from the British base in Cyprus since our planes arrived there. Just another report from another one of these "Official Sources" as far as I can tell. Why not film "a rare foreign sortie?"

    Sorry, but having experienced journalism propaganda over the last few weeks during the referendum campaign,the one thing I have learned is not to trust even a weather forecast if it appeared in a newspaper.

    You're likely to get arrested anywhere near a middle eastern airbase with a camera but..

    Try Al Jazeera if you are so paranoid and sceptical of western journalism.

    Arab allies Bahrain, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates took part in the strikes, which started early on Tuesday, it added.

    Jordan's minister of information and communication, Mohamamd Al Momani, confirmed that his country participated in the strikes. Momani said the airstrikes would continue in the coming period.

    The minister said Jordan participated to strike "terrorism in its home in order to protect Jordan's security and stability and to prevent terrorism from reaching the kingdom".

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Under the banner of "Voice of the people" they forgot the words "minority of the" in the middle of that banner.

     

    A mixture of Yes and No voters (no voters a minority?); both calling for Westminster to follow through on the vow.

     

    Also, note that a majority of voters said No, not a majority of the electorate/'people'. We had 15% DK mind (85% voted, 15% didn't); they didn't/couldn't pick a side.

     

    --------------

    Also, Here's McTernan saying how the no campaign been breaking electoral law by having a look at postal votes, with these showing No ahead.

     

    Not Just Ruth admitting it on live TV.

     

    Sunday politics, 14th of September.

     

     

    Imagine the scandal if ahead of the next GE, the Tories were sampling all the postal votes and planning electoral strategy based on that. All fine and dandy for the pro-union side in Scotland though; so much so they even say it on TV. Just well, 'natural' when you are dealing with Scotland.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Word is going round that the result for Inverness was 61% Yes and 39% No, which if confirmed would make Inverness the most "Yes" place in Scotland.

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    So much for accepting the result and working together for Team Scotland? How about waiting to see what happens and what new powers each pary of the UK get to make things fairer for all.

    As for the postal votes issue, I doubt it would have changed the 10% No victory margin by that much. Of course it should be looked into to see if there were any rules broken but perhaps it is time to accept that the majority of people who voted in the record turn out poll rejected independence.

    Edited by doctormog
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    So much for accepting the result and working together for Team Scotland? How about waiting to see what happens and what new powers each pary of the UK get to make things fairer for all.

    As for the postal votes issue, I doubt it would have changed the 10% No victory margin by that much. Of course it should be looked into to see if there were any rules broken but perhaps it is time to accept that the majority of people who voted in the record turn out poll rejected independence.

    I think they have accepted the result. Marching in demand of new powers is a fundamentally democratic process. I really can't see the problem.

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    No problem at all just rather pointless when the powers have been promised. If they are not delivered than the place to act is the ballot box surely?

    As for accepting the result, the calls for revotes at the rally for independence today kind of suggests that some have not accepted the vote's result.

    The 55 need their views respected too.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    As for the postal votes issue, I doubt it would have changed the 10% No victory margin by that much. 

     

    That's impossible to know. Both campaigns say internal polling had Yes ahead on 53% before the last minute 'vow' + propaganda barrage which came after apparent postal vote handling fraud.

     

    I don't expect the result to be overruled. I accept Yes didn't quite pull it off. The CPO/EC might yet say differently, but I doubt it.

     

    I do expect anyone committing fraud to be prosecuted and sentenced appropriately. Also for the public to be made aware of this if it's the case.

     

    I see no problem with peaceful democratic pressure for the vow on devo max to be delivered; that coming from both Yes and No voters.

     

    I think the No campaign need to accept that people want devo max (up to 74% now with 18% against) and move on, working with the Yes side to achieve this. 

     

    I find it odd that although No won, they seem to be acting a bit like they lost, complaining at Yes for still having hopes and campaigning spirit, getting all worked up at 1000's flocking to join Yes parties...

     

    Its wonderful to see such democratic engagement in action. 

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    No problem at all just rather pointless when the powers have been promised. If they are not delivered than the place to act is the ballot box surely?

    As for accepting the result, the calls for revotes at the rally for independence today kind of suggests that some have not accepted the vote's result.

    The 55 need their views respected too.

    Well then get out there and make them heard! Holding politicians to account is essential and peaceful democratic expression of this sort is one way of holding politicians to these very promises. I see a healthy engaged democracy and that's a good thing.

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    Well then get out there and make them heard! Holding politicians to account is essential and peaceful democratic expression of this sort is one way of holding politicians to these very promises. I see a healthy engaged democracy and that's a good thing.

    I will make my views heard by either voting or writing to my MP or MSP. I don't feel the need to go out on the streets for a No campaign which attracted 55% of the vote. My point was not that there needs to be a voice for the 55 just that their votes and what they represent need to be respected. I see no evidence that will not be the case.

    Campaigning for something that has already been promised just seems a bit...premature. That is my point. If it is not delivered and people want it then the parties responsible will be thrown out in future elections. That is democracy in action, and yes it is good. Democracy said No. Devo max wasn't on the ballot although I'm sure it would have done well. Who wouldn't want more power for no extra risk? Just ask the English, I'm sure they would love the same!

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    I will make my views heard by either voting or writing to my MP or MSP. I don't feel the need to go out on the streets for a No campaign which attracted 55% of the vote. My point was not that there needs to be a voice for the 55 just that their votes and what they represent need to be respected. I see no evidence that will not be the case.

    Campaigning for something that has already been promised just seems a bit...premature. That is my point. If it is not delivered and people want it then the parties responsible will be thrown out in future elections. That is democracy in action, and yes it is good. Democracy said No. Devo max wasn't on the ballot although I'm sure it would have done well. Who wouldn't want more power for no extra risk? Just ask the English, I'm sure they would love the same!

    Everyone knows that democracy said no. But we also know that it said Yes among a very large minority of the population. Westminster are already falling behind on their timetable and if people want to peacefully hold politicians to account then good for them.

    Besides, the problem is we don't actually know precisely what has been promised. What do you take 'home rule' to mean?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     I don't feel the need to go out on the streets for a No campaign 

     

    Sure, but I see no reason for you or anyone to be unhappy about others doing that to promote their views. They're not disrupting anyone or anything. Just a peaceful rally. Labour got tanked at the last Scottish election and UK election but I'm fine with them taking their message to the streets, to doorsteps etc. As long as they behave themselves of course. They have and are doing that.

     

    Also, the timetable for the vow has already been technically broken, so people have reason enough to protest if they wish. Also, seems there's been serious No campaign electoral fraud, so bound to be some unhappiness about that with people pressuring to make sure it's looked at.

     

    Oh, and as part of the rally, people brought large amounts of donations for food banks; something that seems to be increasingly common following the citizens of Yes city Glasgow doing it to make up for the unionist OO + nazi riot after the referendum.  I'm sure you agree that's a nice gesture.

     

    Essentially what's happening is that the Yes campaign are merging with the devo maxers to create a movement with 74% backing. As noted, reports are that a good % of those outside Holyrood voted No on the premise of Devo Max. Seems fine to me. They both (yes and maxers) want slightly different versions of the same thing after all.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    I never said I was unhappy about the rally? Just that it is a bit premature. People can rally all the want within the law. It's the joy of a free country.

    As for food bank donations, I'm always delighted to see those who have helping those who have less. I'm not sure it has anything to do with the referendum or the yobs that were in George Square the other day. Let's hope they, and those from all parts, continue to donate as they can to those in need in whatever way and irrespective of politics.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I never said I was unhappy about the rally? Just that it is a bit premature. People can rally all the want within the law. It's the joy of a free country.

     

    A rally is also fun / for camaraderie / to keep spirits up and that's as much what it was.These can be done at any time. Protests are different.

     

    You can usually tell the difference by the fact that rallies are not aimed at disruption, but protests normally involve a varying element of that.

     

    There are good arguments for protests having a time and a place, but rallies are not bound by the same.

     

    This was a rally, although some protesters came along. BBC even call it a rally, not a protest.

     

    So in that sense it's not in any way premature or anything. A big, disrputive protest against breaking of the vow would be.

     

    1236528_267373913472127_4303293521351421

     

    https://www.facebook.com/YesMelrose/photos/a.223548167854702.1073741829.187338218142364/267373913472127/?type=1&theater

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Another 1200 or so new SNP members in the past day.

     

    Now 68.2 k as of 7.00 pm today. Over half the size of the UK conservative party now even though Scotland is just 8% of the population.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Another 1200 or so new SNP members in the past day.

     

    Now 68.2 k as of 7.00 pm today. Over half the size of the UK conservative party now even though Scotland is just 8% of the population.

    Tories have around 180,000.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Tories have around 180,000.

     

     

    Sorry, I was going by this from the UK Parliament:

     

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/briefing-papers/SN05125/membership-of-uk-political-parties

     

    Published a few days ago. Even notes the SNP post referendum surge.

     

    Had the Tories on 134k as part of a long decline.

     

    Do you have a link to more up-to-date results? Would be genuinely interesting to see these.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Why not get on to the more important things in life like the Europeans doing pretty well against the Americans in the Ryder Cup at the moment?

     

    That's for the sports thread mike.

     

    This one's for the implications of wars, foodbanks, future of Scotland in the union and stuff. You know, the less important things.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Why not get on to the more important things in life like the Europeans doing pretty well against the Americans in the Ryder Cup at the moment?

    Can't tell if serious or not,

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I'm hearing Ruth Davidson is being questioned 'under caution' regarding the electoral fraud issue with the No campaign. 

     

    Awaiting more info.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    That's for the sports thread mike.

     

    This one's for the implications of wars, foodbanks, future of Scotland in the union and stuff. You know, the less important things.

    I agree with you but I put it in this thread deliberately for a purpose to try and get over a point and sometimes a little distraction can be of benefit.

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    I agree with you but I put it in this thread deliberately for a purpose to try and get over a point and sometimes a little distraction can be of benefit.

    It can indeed :)

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