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Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    You can say a lot of things about the 55 to 45% result.

     

    But one thing you cannot say is that the Yes campaign lost.

     

    The final result shows a number, the decline of Independence and Scotland wishing to remain in the Union. I am fed up reading - oh you don't accept the result, why are Yes campaigners not shutting up etc....

     

    Guess what we all accept the result. Got fed up about it, angry about, moved on...The reality is you have a reinvigorated electorate keenly watching exactly what LSOK and parties negotiate, with a side order of constitutional reform and further urgency to drag politicians kicking and screaming to answer the WLC.

     

    This isn't a loss and I do not believe anyone is seeing it as such.

     

    I would wager that many in the 55% category are quite pleased that the opportunity of DevoMax is an outcome thanks to what wasn't 'That You Gov' but that even further apart 'That Internal Poll'.

     

    Scotland is moving on..

     

     

    RE above post Nick the frustration is neatly summed up here from this tweet...

     

    Still hard to accept that a 10min Photoshop of a clip-art scroll cost us independence. Daily Record - everything that's wrong with Scotland.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Nick I know you are not a unionist.

     

    I've not changed my posts / tone of posts.

     

    I've also made clear I support a referendum as per last week as the best way to decide, although there are other 'faster' (© better together) democratic options for more difficult circumstances.

     

    And if it 'could have been won', then it may yet be. If it can't, it won't. That's all I'm saying.

     

    I'm not changing what I support. Nor will I stop campaigning for it. SNP and other pro-indy parties won't do that either, they'll just have to judge what the electorate consider the settled will and put the question back to people if they think its the time again. If it's not wanted, then folk won't vote for it.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    Nick I know you are not a unionist.

     

    I've not changed my posts / tone of posts.

     

    I've also made clear I support a referendum as per last week as the best way to decide, although there are other 'faster' (© better together) democratic options for more difficult circumstances.

     

    And if it 'could have been won', then it may yet be. If it can't, it won't. That's all I'm saying.

    Thanks SS. The best way is a referendum simply because it carries the most legitimacy, other forms are more cloudy and also its a danger to the SNP. What if someone likes a lot of their policies but wants to pull back from another referendum. Its obvious from the voting info that some SNP supporters did not support Yes.

     

    I don't see difficult circumstances happening that would lead to the more nuclear option. The Scottish Parliament is here to stay, if the powers devolved don't meet with the satisfaction of voters then that can be shown in a ballot question for another referendum. This would at least give Westminster the chance to address the issue by offering more.

     

    Perhaps Scots just need to do this slowly, the fear of change in that slowly diminishes.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    That's how I saw it, the surprise or not was that this referendum did indeed follow the psychological research in terms of voting behaviour. It's a shame Yes didn't bother to read this or indeed do something to bring those older voters in.

    I sense a lot of the frustration left over from last Thursday isn't just the loss but the nagging feeling for many Yes supporters that this could have been won.

    The past 3 times (2 referendums, 3 questions) that Scotland has been offered more powers, the actual referendum result has gone against almost all other similar examples that suggest voters return to the status quo in the last few days. Scotland had never rejected more powers at the ballot box and by parading federalism and DevoMax in the last week of a 2 year campaign we have the situation where you can argue that still holds true today, despite the vote being no statehood.

    There is a sense of frustration, but there is also a sense of anger against the British State for unleashing the dogs of hell against the aspirations of it's own citizens, particularly in the final week. A couple of people I know who were quite late switchers to YES, voted by postal ballot because they work on boats and didn't know if they would be here on polling day. They've both said pretty much the same thing since the referendum day and basically furious with the behaviour of the UK state:

    Basically I wasn't sure if I'd made the right decision when I posted my ballot - but now I know I absolutely did make the correct vote. When the campaigns were started in 2012 I never imagined I would vote YES, not until late in the results coming in did I realise how much I cared about the result and how gutted I felt. I can't help but feel Scotland has made a terrible mistake.

    People's journey to YES tends to happen over time, a gradual progress that for the vast majority is a one way street. Whether Ashcroft's 70/30 or YouGov's 50/50 is right for younger voters, only massive change in the structure of the UK that can reverse the trends of the last two decades can stop more people in that age group making that personal journey.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    The past 3 times (2 referendums, 3 questions) that Scotland has been offered more powers, the actual referendum result has gone against almost all other similar examples that suggest voters return to the status quo in the last few days. Scotland had never rejected more powers at the ballot box and by parading federalism and DevoMax in the last week of a 2 year campaign we have the situation where you can argue that still holds true today, despite the vote being no statehood.

    There is a sense of frustration, but there is also a sense of anger against the British State for unleashing the dogs of hell against the aspirations of it's own citizens, particularly in the final week. A couple of people I know who were quite late switchers to YES, voted by postal ballot because they work on boats and didn't know if they would be here on polling day. They've both said pretty much the same thing since the referendum day and basically furious with the behaviour of the UK state:

    Basically I wasn't sure if I'd made the right decision when I posted my ballot - but now I know I absolutely did make the correct vote. When the campaigns were started in 2012 I never imagined I would vote YES, not until late in the results coming in did I realise how much I cared about the result and how gutted I felt. I can't help but feel Scotland has made a terrible mistake.

    People's journey to YES tends to happen over time, a gradual progress that for the vast majority is a one way street. Whether Ashcroft's 70/30 or YouGov's 50/50 is right for younger voters, only massive change in the structure of the UK that can reverse the trends of the last two decades can stop more people in that age group making that personal journey.

    I think overall the 16-24 demographic is roughly evenly split, which is fascinating as at the start of the campaign it looked like 16-17 year olds would end up voting 70-30 No. Without the campaign this could easily have been ingrained in younger generations, but as the arguments were advanced and young people listened they swung massively towards Yes. Certainly this has been true of my friends - at the start of the campaign I thought almost all of my school friends would be No, but by the end it was pretty much 50/50. People I knew who were diehard unionists at the start, people I never thought I'd be able to convince, are now joining the Greens or the SNP and going to Yes 'rallies'. I think a large part of the problem was that a section of the electorate, generally older or more affluent people, never properly engaged with the debate, but felt at the last minute that they had to vote to 'protect' the status quo. These were the folk who, when canvassing, would point blank refuse to talk to us and who had absolutely no desire to be 'bothered' with the debate, and while undoubtedly some No voters were open to the idea of independence, or would at least argue their point, many were totally and completely unreachable by the Yes campaign. Again, as these voters are generally older we may see that this part of the electorate becomes more open to debate in future years, or perhaps they will just as 'stubborn' but more inclined towards Yes generally, but I don't see the 75-25 for No from over 65s continuing now that independence has become a genuine possibility, 'the road not taken' if you will.

     

    I agree to some extent with Nick around the Salmond point (I think it was potentially winnable although via an incredibly narrow path) but would make two points; 1) his leadership is the reason the SNP has transformed itself over 20 years from a few diehards in kilts to the dominant party in Scottish politics and 2) the personalisation of Salmond as the face of the Yes campaign was largely, at least up to the 'leadership' debates, an invention of the media. You have no idea how many times we told voters 'this isn't about Salmond', but as any story about independence was written in terms of 'Blow/boost for Salmond' it was very difficult to countenance, and I think by the final month, after a disasterous 1st debate when he tried to come across as less bombastic/confrontational', the mantra of 'Let Salmond be Salmond' seemed to be the least worst option. 

    In terms of who was a bigger liability to the campaign, I hate to say it but Jim Sillars did not help our case at all, as much as he was sincere in trying to help. He spent half of his speeches attacking the Currency union proposal (another possible weakness, but others like Patrick Harvie managed to oppose it without causing anything like as much damage) while the 'day of reckoning' stuff into the final week was deeply unhelpful, even if I was vaguely sympathetic to his main point around oil renationalisation. His commitment to the cause was bloody admirable though - the evening after Margo's funeral he was out speaking at a Yes public meeting in Wester Hailes on her orders. It saddens me that she never got to see the referendum, and that so many of those who brought us to this point were unable to see their dream realised, but as Salmond said it shall never die - we have at least 100k committed Yes activists who will devote a large part of the rest of their lives to this, and over a million dedicated supporters. 

     

    A final point (probably misdirected on here but here goes) - I have high confidence that the result was an accurate reflection of the votes cast on the day. Almost 100,000 people signed a petition to ask for a re-vote based on spurious YouTube videos showing things that weren't even dubious, and it absolutely undermines the Yes movement. I was at the Fife count myself, and can vouch absolutely for the integrity of the count staff - every counter was watched by a Yes count agent, and any (honest) mistakes challenged and corrected immediately. We sampled the ballots too, and the numbers agreed pretty well with the final result. The margin nationally was too large and the oversight operation too vigorous for us to blame on misplaced bundles or any other conspiracy theory - we lost, for now at least, and we have to move on to deal with the reality, which is actually far less bleak than I could've envisioned on Friday morning.

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    True SS, your best asset is Hydro by virtue that it is constant and dependable but will this fill the revenue gap?

    Our best assets are wave, tidal, wind, oil and gas, not hydro.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    On the subject of being democratic / not being...

     

    Interesting development. Potentially very serious as getting an idea of the way things are going weeks ahead can change your campaign strategy. Maybe make you offer more devo gifts at the last minute for example.

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/elections-watchdog-calls-in-police-over-no-camp-postal-vote-claims.25423662

     

    Election watchdog calls in police over claims about No camp access to postal votes
     
    POLICE have been called in to ­investigate allegations Better Together agents breached election law by viewing postal votes to discover how well the No campaign was doing in the weeks before the referendum poll closed.

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    That is incredible SS, appalling.

    So, allegations of electoral fraud so have basis in fact.

    I'm certain the establishment will ensure a cover up.

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    This was the clip that has led to the above investigation.

     

    Ruth Davidson on BBC on the night of the results. Implies this was controlled situation and part of the process.

     

    Looks dodgy to me !

     

     

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    So, allegations of electoral fraud so have basis in fact.

     

    I don't think there was any widespread fraud in the sense ballots were tampered with, however sampling actual ballots weeks before the count is very serious if true. My understanding is that postal votes are opened for (name / address / signature) verification only before they are put into ballot boxes to be counted along with votes made on the day. You can take small samples once the final count is underway to give you an idea before they are all counted, but not weeks in advance while the campaign is in full swing for very obvious reasons.

     

    Especially if you then go on to break purdah by making vows on new, extensive powers.

     

    BT have said internally they were worried as polls were giving 53% Yes in agreement with what YesScotland were getting. A sample of postal votes could give you a very good idea of the way things were going and what you'd need to get from those on polling day to win. Those going to the ballot box rather than postal voting contain last minute switchers in large numbers that could be swayed by offers of more powers etc.

     

    This issue is so serious, many countries even ban public opinion polls for a period ahead of voting. 

     

    Certainly, if this turns out to be true, it could mean a very big stain on the union.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    We had people in to oversee the postal ballot opening but no formal sampling was done as it was understood that this was expressly forbidden. It also makes their targeting of pensioners, who were apparently bombarded with 'vote Yes and you'll lose your pension' in the final few weeks, seem a bit more sinister as the other side perhaps realised that they needed to do something to increase their margin on the postal vote.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Wow, I'd heard roughly what Ruth was supposed to have said but that's the first time I've actually seen the clip. I, along with all the other representatives of Wings who were at polling stations, counts etc, have been rubbishing the claims of 'electoral fraud' from a few who don't seem to want to let it drop. I didn't have the time to attend postal ballot openings but from all the literature I saw in relation to it, it is quite clear that you are not allowed to 'sample' during the opening, and if you do happen to see any votes you are not allowed to pass that information on under any circumstances (that's the other reason I'd not have been keen to do it, the temptation to reveal anything gleaned from the ballot openings would have been too great).

     

    If BT have been sampling, and it's not just Ruth being 'misguided' in what she said, then that should be investigated! It's clearly against all the rules and could have given them an advantage going into polling day.

     

    Now, having said that, what advantage they gained I'm not sure. Was it not said that the postal ballots were pretty well in favour of No anyway?

    Edited by Ravelin
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

     Postal vote could have been against NO then at some point during the weeks of the sampling periods.......or at least too close for comfort? 

    Ruth Davidson, in the video, appeared confident in admitting to the sampling which makes me think that nothing illegal was involved?

    Either that or she made one hell of a boob admitting to it.

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Here's an extract from one of the numerous documents I received and had to read prior to my 'duties' on polling day.

     

     


    2. Postal ballot agents

     

    Referendum agents are not entitled to attend, nor to appoint postal ballot agents to attend, the sessions at which postal ballots are issued. However, referendum agents are entitled to attend postal vote opening sessions or to appoint someone to attend in their place. They can also appoint one or more postal ballot agents to attend.

     

    The Counting Officer must give at least 48 hours’ notice of the time at which each of the opening sessions will take place and will specify how many postal ballot agents each referendum agent may appoint to attend each session. This will be the same number for each referendum agent.

     

    Referendum agents must then notify Counting Officers of the names of those who will be attending the opening sessions. Counting Officers can supply a form for this purpose, but referendum agents do not have to use this form so long as they notify the Counting Officer of the appointment of postal ballot agents in writing no later than the time fixed for the opening session they are to attend.

     

    At the opening sessions, the Counting Officer’s team will open the postal voters’ ballot boxes in the presence of the postal ballot agents before proceeding to open the covering envelopes, to make the appropriate checks and to verify the signatures and dates of birth on the postal voting statements against computerised records prepared by the ERO.

     

    Counting Officers will check the personal identifiers on postal voting statements in the presence of the postal ballot agents and, on determining that any statement has not been duly completed, will mark it “rejected†and will show it to the counting agents present before placing it with the related papers in the container for rejected votes. The Counting Officer will permit the postal ballot agents to view the entries in the personal identifiers record relating to the person to whom the postal ballot paper was addressed and, if any agent objects to the decision, will endorse the ballot paper with the words “rejection objected toâ€.

     

    The ballot envelopes will be opened and the number of papers returned will be counted. However postal ballot agents must be aware that the papers will be handled face down and that they will not be able to see how people have voted. Once the postal ballots have been opened and checked, they will be resealed in a ballot box which will be securely stored and delivered to the Count centre on the night of the referendum.

     

    Where Counting Officers become aware that a cancelled ballot paper has been placed in a postal voters box, in the receptacle for ballot paper envelopes, or in a postal ballot box, they will at the next opening session and in the presence of the postal ballot agents, retrieve the cancelled ballot paper and its postal voting statement and will show the number on that ballot paper to the postal ballot agents.

     

    The last opening of postal votes on referendum day will be after the close of poll, to deal with any postal votes handed in at polling stations and is likely to be at the Count Centre.

     

    Referendum agents and their postal ballot agents present at the opening of postal votes must observe the requirement of secrecy and must follow the instructions of the Counting Officer. Failure to observe the requirement of secrecy is a criminal offence punishable by law and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine of up to level 5 on the standard scale – currently £5,000 – or both.

     

    My highlighting.

    Edited by Ravelin
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I don't think there was any widespread fraud in the sense ballots were tampered with.

     

    I agree with this, but to have access to votes and then the fact this information was shared prior to the count goes against all democratic principles.

     

    In all fairness, I think a re vote is the only solution. :-0

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    I agree with this, but to have access to votes and then the fact this information was shared prior to the count goes against all democratic principles.

     

    In all fairness, I think a re vote is the only solution. :-0

    Said with tongue firmly in cheek, I take it.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Got this tweet forwarded to me earlier:

    met a pensioner in the hub today who'd voted no as believed pension had been at risk. Left with Yes badge & SNP membership form

    There is no question over the integrity of the count, but there are certainly questions about the conduct of Better Together late in the campaign. There is a growing body of evidence that they deliberately targeted elderly voters with postal votes to freak them out with the lie that their state pension would stop if there was a YES vote.

    They broke the data protection act earlier in the campaign too and on the eve of poll I now know they (specifically the Highland Lib Dems) phoned my parents house - my mum informed them that the number was registered with the telephone preference scheme and as such no cold calls of any sort are expected. The response was "we know but this is too important to bother with those rules".

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Perhaps they could argue it was market research which isn't covered by TPS.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    There does appear to be a strong divergence between the on the day vote and the postal vote. Certainly in Highland the postal ballot was strongly no.

    Word from the count is Better Together cheered up as more of the postal votes were sorted out early in the count, only to become ashen faced as ballot boxes from the Inner Moray Firth area (Inverness, Dingwall and surrounds being first to the counting station) were opened and papers sorted out. Inverness voted yes (reportedly by a margin slightly wider than Dundee) while postal votes were a bigger proportion of votes in outlying areas understandably.

    Mass postal voting must have an impact on outcomes, because people are voting at different stages of a campaign, which is an issue with postal voting that I don’t think has been given enough consideration.

    Inverness voting Yes and every Holyrood constituency in Glasgow voting yes doesn’t seem to fit with the proposition that Yes votes correlated mainly to deprivation. Indeed what appears to be the emerging picture in Highland is that the grassroots Yes campaign with feet on the ground was more effective in urban areas and didn’t or perhaps simply couldn’t reach out to the same effect in the more remote parts of Highland.

    A mate suggested the following - that if we do get final ward by ward breakdowns published for Highland that the Yes vote share might correlate to available broadband speed! Interesting thought as areas with more limited and poor ADSL will be more dependent on the broadcast news and newspapers for information.

    Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    There does appear to be a strong divergence between the on the day vote and the postal vote. Certainly in Highland the postal ballot was strongly no.

    Word from the count is Better Together cheered up as more of the postal votes were sorted out early in the count, only to become ashen faced as ballot boxes from the Inner Moray Firth area (Inverness, Dingwall and surrounds being first to the counting station) were opened and papers sorted out. Inverness voted yes (reportedly by a margin slightly wider than Dundee) while postal votes were a bigger proportion of votes in outlying areas understandably.

    Mass postal voting must have an impact on outcomes, because people are voting at different stages of a campaign, which is an issue with postal voting that I don’t think has been given enough consideration.

    Inverness voting Yes and every Holyrood constituency in Glasgow voting yes doesn’t seem to fit with the proposition that Yes votes correlated mainly to deprivation. Indeed what appears to be the emerging picture in Highland is that the grassroots Yes campaign with feet on the ground was more effective in urban areas and didn’t or perhaps simply couldn’t reach out to the same effect in the more remote parts of Highland.

    A mate suggested the following - that if we do get final ward by ward breakdowns published for Highland that the Yes vote share might correlate to available broadband speed! Interesting thought as areas with more limited and poor ADSL will be more dependent on the broadcast news and newspapers for information.

    That was largely true in Fife too - the ground campaign clearly had an impact as the more sparsely populated areas were far more strongly No (aside from the horrendous Dunfermline result). However, the Edinburgh campaign was incredibly active and yet had a pretty poor showing, albeit not unexpectedly so. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    There does appear to be a strong divergence between the on the day vote and the postal vote. Certainly in Highland the postal ballot was strongly no.

    Word from the count is Better Together cheered up as more of the postal votes were sorted out early in the count, only to become ashen faced as ballot boxes from the Inner Moray Firth area (Inverness, Dingwall and surrounds being first to the counting station) were opened and papers sorted out. Inverness voted yes (reportedly by a margin slightly wider than Dundee) while postal votes were a bigger proportion of votes in outlying areas understandably.

    Mass postal voting must have an impact on outcomes, because people are voting at different stages of a campaign, which is an issue with postal voting that I don’t think has been given enough consideration.

    Inverness voting Yes and every Holyrood constituency in Glasgow voting yes doesn’t seem to fit with the proposition that Yes votes correlated mainly to deprivation. Indeed what appears to be the emerging picture in Highland is that the grassroots Yes campaign with feet on the ground was more effective in urban areas and didn’t or perhaps simply couldn’t reach out to the same effect in the more remote parts of Highland.

    A mate suggested the following - that if we do get final ward by ward breakdowns published for Highland that the Yes vote share might correlate to available broadband speed! Interesting thought as areas with more limited and poor ADSL will be more dependent on the broadcast news and newspapers for information.

    In all of this discussion about campaigning et al, there seems to be a fundamental lack of acknowledgement that the main reason that the majority of people didn't vote for Independence is because they didn't want to and just perhaps they want to be remain part of the Union. It seems that even a week after the vote there is still a hardcore of Yes campaigners who still have not got their head around this and accept it. This is ingrained from the top of the SNP - AS's comment that No voters are deferred Yes voters is a classic example of this.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    I see the 'Ruth Davidson postal votes' story has finally hit the BBC Website.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29359318

     

    It will be interesting to see if it also gets a mention in the broadcast news i.e .Radio/TV.

     

    I can't help but think Ruth has been rather silly. If I knew the rules regarding the postal vote opening sessions then she, as a professional politician and leader of the party in Scotland should have also known that it wasn't simply a case of keeping quiet until the polls had closed! No doubt there will not be enough evidence for Police Scotland to do much and all that will happen is a wrap on the knuckles and a bit of mild embarrassment.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    In all of this discussion about campaigning et al, there seems to be a fundamental lack of acknowledgement that the main reason that the majority of people didn't vote for Independence is because they didn't want to and just perhaps they want to be remain part of the Union. It seems that even a week after the vote there is still a hardcore of Yes campaigners who still have not got their head around this and accept it. This is ingrained from the top of the SNP - AS's comment that No voters are deferred Yes voters is a classic example of this.

     

    So what are you suggesting, that the Yes side should just melt away in disappointment never to be heard from again? Is that what Labour did after they lost the last Westminster GE, or indeed what the Tories did when Blair & Brown were PM? No, all political parties/movements have their ups and downs but if they are true in their beliefs then they continue to campaign for them. God help us if the Suffragettes had given up, or the US Civil Rights movement, or the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, or Ghandi in India etc. Those who want to see Independence lost, and lost fairly, but that doesn't mean the desire has gone away.

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  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    So what are you suggesting, that the Yes side should just melt away in disappointment never to be heard from again? Is that what Labour did after they lost the last Westminster GE, or indeed what the Tories did when Blair & Brown were PM? No, all political parties/movements have their ups and downs but if they are true in their beliefs then they continue to campaign for them. God help us if the Suffragettes had given up, or the US Civil Rights movement, or the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, or Ghandi in India etc. Those who want to see Independence lost, and lost fairly, but that doesn't mean the desire has gone away.

    I have no idea how this post responds to the post to which it putatively replied.

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