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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Yes and No. If the Holyrood election was called January, we'd possibly see SNP 1st, Lab 2nd, Green 3rd and Con 4th. That's certainly a strong Left in government and a "left" party as the opposition.

    Any bets on lost deposits?

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    If the SNP / Greens were clever, they'd be encouraging strong local candidates in Orkney and Shetland in order to wipe the Lib Dems out in Scotland.

    Lol, Lib Dem. That's what you get for completely letting the Highlands down.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    If the SNP / Greens were clever, they'd be encouraging strong local candidates in Orkney and Shetland in order to wipe the Lib Dems out in Scotland.

    Lol, Lib Dem. That's what you get for completely letting the Highlands down.

     

    Won't make a difference, even when changing candidates they've not fallen below 20% of the vote. I suspect that if Scotland ever goes, so will they to the UK.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    I did a wee bit of analysis of Westminster seats and in only 3 was the incumbent's vote share greater than the number of Yes votes - Shetland + Orkney, East Renfrewshire and (probably, based on a rough extrapolation of the Aberdeenshire result) West Aberdeenshire, with Berwickshire. Outside of that, I'd suggest that the SNP/'Yes alliance' has the potential to win anywhere. It depends on what the Labour Yes vote does - a decent proportion of it has full on disowned the party and will now vote SNP, at least tactically, for the long haul. Some of it may yet drift back to Labour though - we have to make it clear to them that

    As a Yes campaigner, the experience was very rewarding but pretty bruising. Convincing my Labour member dad to finally vote Yes, which in the end he did excitedly and proudly, was a high point, and throughout the campaign it really did feel as though the momentum was with us. Even for the first hour of the count in Fife, where I was doing box sampling, it seemed as though we were on course to win - working class areas of Glenrothes, Rosyth, Ballingry, Lochgelly and Kennoway all came in either narrowly or strongly for Yes. That changed pretty rapidly in the next hour - Dunfermline, mostly because of the new middle class Edinburgh commuter population but also from the older bits of town (maybe a result of the Bill Walker stuff), came in strongly for No while my own constituency of NE Fife, hardly a bastion for us anyway, turned out to be even worse than expected, with better off bits of Cupar and St Andrews running around 75-80% No (the villages I was organiser for were nothing like as bad but of course that was pretty scant consolation). This was pretty much the same everywhere, with the exception of Glasgow, where the middle classes in Pollokshields voted Yes, and a few traditional rural 'nationalist' strongholds like Oban, Wick, Skye, Barra, the Inner Hebrides and Banff and Buchan, all of which voted Yes overall. It was gut wrenching at the time, but in hindsight the result looks fairly reasonable and particularly problematic for the Labour party.

    Yes won every single seat in Glasgow, some by as much as 57-43, and constituencies with rock solid Labour support i.e. ones they held in 2011 like Inverclyde, Dumbarton, Coatbridge, Bellshill and Motherwell, came out very strongly for Yes. While Yes failed to win in SNP strongholds (Aberdeenshire was almost predictable given just how unionist West Aberdeenshire, 1/3 of the whole council area, is) like Perth and Kinross, Angus and, in my view our worst result of all, Na H-eileanan Iar, Yes support remained at or above 40% in most of these areas, and with the main unionist opposition in most of rural Scotland being the tories or Lib Dems I doubt we're likely to lose these seats, certainly in a Holyrood context but also at Westminster. 

     

    There's no real sign of a tory surge - they might increase support slightly, and may gain seats as a result of the unwinding of the LD vote, and my own NE Fife could be a fascinating seat to watch, with tories, LDs, SNP and potentially even Labour in with a shot, but I think the generally middle class or elderly No voters will be unlikely to switch to voting tory. In fact, it's more likely to cement Labour's position as the party of middle income public sector workers - we already saw in 2011 that Labour's core vote was vulnerable while in East Renfrewshire, East Lothian and Dumfries and Galloway it found it far easier to defend the SNP, and tory, challenge, and while the tory leadership in Scotland is arguably far less inept than Labour's they still suffer from a toxicity issue which reflexively means that even 'right'-minded voters around these parts are reluctant to vote tory. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    The Lib Dems aren't going to be wiped out in Scotland, it would take something biblical to unseat Charles Kennedy and it would take large scale and organised tactical voting to unseat Lord Thurso.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     

    That is sadly a meaningless graph. It's mainly based on yougov subsets which massively down-weight SNP.

     

    If you look at the projected total SNP share of the UK total, then you are 3 (36%)-4(48%)%. Recently some 5%'s coming in. Used to be 2% pre 2011, in line with 20% odd for 2010.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    If the SNP / Greens were clever, they'd be encouraging strong local candidates in Orkney and Shetland in order to wipe the Lib Dems out in Scotland.

    Lol, Lib Dem. That's what you get for completely letting the Highlands down.

    I suspect Danny will be emphatically gone, maybe even third or fourth - anecdotally at least it seems Inverness itself voted Yes and while some of his vote will go to Labour the SNP looks pretty well placed to gain. Caithness is maybe more likely to be a tighter 3 way marginal but I'd still think there's a reasonably good chance of an SNP gain but I reckon Charlie will hang on in Ross, Skye and Lochaber on a personal vote. Gordon is quite likely to go SNP, West Aberdeenshire more likely a tory gain, Argyll and Bute probably SNP although with a possible Labour challenge, East Dunbartonshire could go either way but more likely Labour IMO, Edinburgh West another one which will be hard to call along with NE Fife and Berwickshire might go tory if the candidate is decent (John Lamont would likely win it for them but I'm not sure if he's standing) and they'll hang on in Orkney and Shetland. So overall, I think they'll be down to at most 5 seats, but more likely just the two.

    Edited by LomondSnowstorm
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    John Swinney at least looks conciliatory and realistic and certainly willing to  get involved in negotiations regarding new powers. I do feel sorry however for Sturgeon who will continue to be haunted by Salmond. Without the responsibility of the FM's job he could turn into a real pain for her.

     

    I wonder whether he was indeed pushed as its obvious he's a divisive figure and continues to be just that with his refusal to accept a democratic vote. It's time people paused waited to see whats going to be delivered in terms of powers before throwing their toys out of the pram!

     

    He has shown nothing at all in terms of trying to unite Scotland but instead continues to drone on about other routes to independence all of which are both undemocratic and likely to just stir up more problems.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    John Swinney at least looks conciliatory and realistic and certainly willing to  get involved in negotiations regarding new powers. I do feel sorry however for Sturgeon who will continue to be haunted by Salmond. Without the responsibility of the FM's job he could turn into a real pain for her.

     

    I wonder whether he was indeed pushed as its obvious he's a divisive figure and continues to be just that with his refusal to accept a democratic vote. It's time people paused waited to see whats going to be delivered in terms of powers before throwing their toys out of the pram!

     

    He has shown nothing at all in terms of trying to unite Scotland but instead continues to drone on about other routes to independence all of which are both undemocratic and likely to just stir up more problems.

     

    Nicola's current the most popular politician in the UK in terms of respective electorate. Her party has just over doubled it's membership and helped turn less than 30% into 45% for full indy on an 85% turnout. Demand for indy at an all time high with devo max demand also hitting the highest ever at nearly 80%. Early indications Labour are in serious trouble for 2015. Latest post-referendum poll is 49% SNP Holyrood. She's walking into a dream job. 

     

    First up is oil revenues. For 3 years we've been told oil is running out and revenues not worth it. No problem handing that over then...

     

    The unionist promised home rule and soverienty in the papers with massive devolution. They called it devo max and broke purdah doing it, helped swing it from 53% Yes to the other way around. They now need to deliver or the electorate and the papers will slaughter them. The Scottish papers saved the union, but with conditions. If Labour collapse and the devo proposals stink, the Scottish media will turn on the union along with the electorate.

     

    If you could point out where Salmond said anything undemocratic I'd be much obliged. Hope you're not fooled by media spin Nick! The public are not fooled. Salmond gave them a choice and accepted the result. He transformed Scottish politics, then gracefully bowed out. Not something that unionist politicians do and folk are well aware of it. 

     

    Oh and I love the idea that NS will be annoyed by the ghost of Salmond; her mentor who she always knew would hand the reigns to her when appropriate. I can't wait to see Salmond ratings; he was massively popular even among No voters and him stepping down was a blinder that really annoyed the pro-union parties.

     

    Will 'It's all about Sturgeon' work? I can't wait.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Summer Blizzard, Aberdeenshire West is my home turf and although on paper it would look ripe for a Tory gain I'd not be so sure. In the Scottish Parliament election in 2011 the equivalent constituency went from LibDem (-13%) to SNP (+14%) with the Tories in third place (-3.5%). Scottish politics can get very complicated at times, with people switching votes all over the place, and differently depending on whether its Westminster or Holyrood.

    Edited by Ravelin
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    continues to be just that with his refusal to accept a democratic vote

    I'm sorry Nick, but that is just not true, as with the hysterical nonsense about the Scottish Government doing a UDI. Perhaps the MSM's spin on this was the best they could do after Alex Salmond's surprise resignation after a 6 hour delay in his press conference spiked their guns on a weekend blitz to try and bury the SNP once and for all.

    Certainly an interesting read: http://martinbelk.com/inside-scoop-alex-salmond/

    Alex Salmond's statement to the Scottish Parliament was certainly more conciliatory than Lamont (who probably added another 10k to the SNP membership) and certainly more so than Willie Rennie who prattled on like the prat he is. Ruth Davidson give a far better speech than Lamont or Rennie and seemed to suggest the Scottish Tories would back votes at 16 - there is now it would seem a majority to force this through the Commons in advance of the General Election (though it's been suggested that it might only be possible this time in Scotland because the register and systems to register under 18s are in place already).

    Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    The only democratic route to independence is with a referendum. No one can argue with a result there as its absolutely clear, some in the SNP want to move the goalposts which is unacceptable.

     

    I fully support another referendum if Scots aren't happy with the new powers or if the UK exits the EU, however the rumblings coming from some in the SNP are trying to avoid asking Scots a straight question but independence through the backdoor.

     

    The SNP might end up shooting themselves in the foot if they go down this route.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The only democratic route to independence is with a referendum. No one can argue with a result there as its absolutely clear, some in the SNP want to move the goalposts which is unacceptable.

     

    I fully support another referendum if Scots aren't happy with the new powers or if the UK exits the EU, however the rumblings coming from some in the SNP are trying to avoid asking Scots a straight question but independence through the backdoor.

     

    The SNP might end up shooting themselves in the foot if they go down this route.

     

    Nicola has espoused the same.

     

    However, consider this...

     

    Lets say ahead of an election, Westminster say they are going to slash Scotland's budget by 50% and remove powers from Scotland. They can do this.

     

    It would be a complete disaster in the making.

     

    So, SNP and other parties say 'We pledge to negotiate independence if elected next year'. That is made completely clear to the electorate in manifestos, in the papers etc.

     

    Electorate votes for that on a good turnout. The union ends.

     

    That is democracy.

     

    Only for extreme circumstances, but perfectly ok as fully democratic. It's vote on indy after all - they could even put 'To end the union / negotiate independence' on ballots next to party names.

     

    UDI is for really extreme cases and nobody is proposing that. International community tend to see that as illegal, but only to stop me e.g. declaring an independent Peoples Republic of Blainslie. If they think it justified, they'll accept it. If Westminster suddenly motioned to end the Scottish parliament against Scotland's wishes, a UDI would likely work fairly well for Scotland.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    I'm sorry Nick, but that is just not true, as with the hysterical nonsense about the Scottish Government doing a UDI. Perhaps the MSM's spin on this was the best they could do after Alex Salmond's surprise resignation after a 6 hour delay in his press conference spiked their guns on a weekend blitz to try and bury the SNP once and for all.

    Certainly an interesting read: http://martinbelk.com/inside-scoop-alex-salmond/

    Alex Salmond's statement to the Scottish Parliament was certainly more conciliatory than Lamont (who probably added another 10k to the SNP membership) and certainly more so than Willie Rennie who prattled on like the prat he is. Ruth Davidson give a far better speech than Lamont or Rennie and seemed to suggest the Scottish Tories would back votes at 16 - there is now it would seem a majority to force this through the Commons in advance of the General Election (though it's been suggested that it might only be possible this time in Scotland because the register and systems to register under 18s are in place already).

    Salmond is a hypocrite, didn't bother to turn up at the service for reconciliation, says one thing and does another. The Salmond adulation is misplaced, IMO he blew it and was probably pushed. This was a winnable referendum which failed because the "figurehead" of the campaign frightened some Scots voters as to how negotiations might go post Yes, he alienated the rUK, was divisive and failed to negate the fears of voters.

     

    I think theres a certain denial in some Yes supporters to accept some of the failings of the campaign and to see Salmond as part of the problem.Instead the ire is just directed at everything bar those that need to take responsibility.

     

    Hopefully Sturgeon or whoever else is in charge come the next referendum will learn lessons from this.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

     

    UDI is for really extreme cases and nobody is proposing that. International community tend to see that as illegal, but only to stop me e.g. declaring an independent Peoples Republic of Blainslie. If they think it justified, they'll accept it. If Westminster suddenly motioned to end the Scottish parliament against Scotland's wishes, a UDI would likely work fairly well for Scotland.

     

    UDI would be economic suicide for Scotland.... (on the basis that it would have to stand on it's own two feet against the vicious headwinds of the financial markets from day 1 with no support from rUK).

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Nicola has espoused the same.

     

    However, consider this...

     

    Lets say ahead of an election, Westminster say they are going to slash Scotland's budget by 50% and remove powers from Scotland. They can do this.

     

    It would be a complete disaster in the making.

     

    So, SNP and other parties say 'We pledge to negotiate independence if elected next year'. That is made completely clear to the electorate in manifestos, in the papers etc.

     

    Electorate votes for that on a good turnout. The union ends.

     

    That is democracy.

     

    Only for extreme circumstances, but perfectly ok as fully democratic. It's vote on indy after all - they could even put 'To end the union / negotiate independence' on ballots next to party names.

     

    UDI is for really extreme cases and nobody is proposing that. International community tend to see that as illegal, but only to stop me e.g. declaring an independent Peoples Republic of Blainslie. If they think it justified, they'll accept it. If Westminster suddenly motioned to end the Scottish parliament against Scotland's wishes, a UDI would likely work fairly well for Scotland.

     

    Extreme hypotheticals and theoretical situations which are so unlikely that it is simply not worth bringing them up.

     

    So the question is: why is this even being mentioned just after the referendum? 

    Answer: some people are having a hard time accepting that they lost. So much for "settled for a generation/lifetime". 5 minutes later and they're mentioning hypothetical situations where UDI is possible.

     

    True colours revealed.

    Edited by NickR
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    Nicola has espoused the same.

     

    However, consider this...

     

    Lets say ahead of an election, Westminster say they are going to slash Scotland's budget by 50% and remove powers from Scotland. They can do this.

     

    It would be a complete disaster in the making.

     

    So, SNP and other parties say 'We pledge to negotiate independence if elected next year'. That is made completely clear to the electorate in manifestos, in the papers etc.

     

    Electorate votes for that on a good turnout. The union ends.

     

    That is democracy.

     

    Only for extreme circumstances, but perfectly ok as fully democratic. It's vote on indy after all - they could even put 'To end the union / negotiate independence' on ballots next to party names.

     

    UDI is for really extreme cases and nobody is proposing that. International community tend to see that as illegal, but only to stop me e.g. declaring an independent Peoples Republic of Blainslie. If they think it justified, they'll accept it. If Westminster suddenly motioned to end the Scottish parliament against Scotland's wishes, a UDI would likely work fairly well for Scotland.

    These are all hypotheticals which frankly have zero chance of occurring.  Westminster will never get rid of the Scottish Parliament .

     

    Westminster will not agree to anything unless its a referendum and I'm sure most Scots would rather have that option.

     

    If lets say Scots aren't happy with the new powers then fair enough stick another referendum on the ballot, but there would be chaos if the SNP stuck independence on the ballot.

     

    UDI for Scotland unless in that extreme case of Westminster going mad and ending the Scottish parliament would be a disaster.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     

     

    If lets say Scots aren't happy with the new powers then fair enough stick another referendum on the ballot, but there would be chaos if the SNP stuck independence on the ballot.

     

     

     

    I don't recall this chaos pre-1999. Maybe I missed it?

     

    If you could elaborate on the chaos it would be appreciated Nick.

     

    It seems to me that only unionists don't like democracy.

     

    If people in Scotland want another iref, they should have one. If the case for the union is strong, there is nothing unionists need fear about having one. Nor should they fear the unlikely option of negotiations on indy as a manifesto commitment. They insult the electorate by doing the latter.

     

    I prefer a straight referendum as SNP policy remains. 

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/293335-sunday-herald-sees-sales-rise-by-111-after-backing-yes-vote/

     

    Sunday Herald 'proud to give voice to 45%' as circulation doubles

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Extreme hypotheticals and theoretical situations which are so unlikely that it is simply not worth bringing them up.

    So the question is: why is this even being mentioned just after the referendum?

    Answer: some people are having a hard time accepting that they lost. So much for "settled for a generation/lifetime". 5 minutes later and they're mentioning hypothetical situations where UDI is possible.

    True colours revealed.

    They are coming up because people like you keep twisting what was actually said and people are responding to that.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    As for losing...

     

    It really depends on whether closing a big gap to come close is considered 'losing' or just 'not quite getting there this time.'

     

    Slide19.jpg

     

    It's going to be quite interesting seeing what happens with the poll of polls over the next few years based on devo proposals, next UKGE etc.

     

    I've heard the words 'settled will of the Scottish people' in response to the result.

     

    That may be true, but settled wills can change as we see above. When you get 74% as per 1997, then settled will sounds fair and you don't expect that to change any time soon. When things are a tad closer you might wonder if further changes are not too far down the line.

     

    Democracy is the settled will, but with a continuous referendum/election every few years to check that's still the case.

     

    In May 2015 the UK population will be asked what its settled will is once more.

     

    I've lived with the constitutional question a major factor in Scottish politics for the 37 years of my life. I can't see why that might change. In fact it seems to have come to a new high.

     

    It may die back, it may not. It all really depends on what happens next.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Nicola's current the most popular politician in the UK in terms of respective electorate. Her party has just over doubled it's membership and helped turn less than 30% into 45% for full indy on an 85% turnout. Demand for indy at an all time high with devo max demand also hitting the highest ever at nearly 80%. Early indications Labour are in serious trouble for 2015. Latest post-referendum poll is 49% SNP Holyrood. She's walking into a dream job. 

     

    First up is oil revenues. For 3 years we've been told oil is running out and revenues not worth it. No problem handing that over then...

     

    The unionist promised home rule and soverienty in the papers with massive devolution. They called it devo max and broke purdah doing it, helped swing it from 53% Yes to the other way around. They now need to deliver or the electorate and the papers will slaughter them. The Scottish papers saved the union, but with conditions. If Labour collapse and the devo proposals stink, the Scottish media will turn on the union along with the electorate.

     

    If you could point out where Salmond said anything undemocratic I'd be much obliged. Hope you're not fooled by media spin Nick! The public are not fooled. Salmond gave them a choice and accepted the result. He transformed Scottish politics, then gracefully bowed out. Not something that unionist politicians do and folk are well aware of it. 

     

    Oh and I love the idea that NS will be annoyed by the ghost of Salmond; her mentor who she always knew would hand the reigns to her when appropriate. I can't wait to see Salmond ratings; he was massively popular even among No voters and him stepping down was a blinder that really annoyed the pro-union parties.

     

    Will 'It's all about Sturgeon' work? I can't wait.

    All this talk about oil and gas revenues? - The EU is committed to reducing dependence on fossil fuels by 80% by 2050 - Many parts of the world are going all out to develop sustainable forms of energy and I suspect that over the next few years this will grow exponentially so that although there is still likely to be some need for oil and gas there is not likely to be the same demand for it - that being the case what is going to happen to the price? - Most likely it will fall and where will this leave Scotland?  

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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    All this talk about oil and gas revenues? - The EU is committed to reducing dependence on fossil fuels by 80% by 2050 - Many parts of the world are going all out to develop sustainable forms of energy and I suspect that over the next few years this will grow exponentially so that although there is still likely to be some need for oil and gas there is not likely to be the same demand for it - that being the case what is going to happen to the price? - Most likely it will fall and where will this leave Scotland?  

     

    Fine. Devolve it then.

     

    Renewables?

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Scotland

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

     

    I don't recall this chaos pre-1999. Maybe I missed it?

     

    If you could elaborate on the chaos it would be appreciated Nick.

     

    It seems to me that only unionists don't like democracy.

     

    If people in Scotland want another iref, they should have one. If the case for the union is strong, there is nothing unionists need fear about having one. Nor should they fear the unlikely option of negotiations on indy as a manifesto commitment. They insult the electorate by doing the latter.

     

    I prefer a straight referendum as SNP policy remains. 

     

    Firstly I'm not a Unionist and even if I was I think its a little insulting to suggest that the SNP are the only bastions for democracy. If you prefer a straight referendum then theres obviously a reason why you say that.

     

    If you followed my views re another referendum I've made it clear that I have no problem at all with this. You seem to be ignoring the views of some Yes voters who would like the dust to settle and be free of yet more campaigning for at least a few years.

     

    You seem to be confusing my criticism of Salmond and some in the SNP as some huge endorsement for the Union, maybe this is part of the problem, the insinuation being that unless you follow the line totally then you're obviously from the other side.

     

    What I have seen in this thread bar a few brave Scottish souls is an utter devotion to maintain a line that the Yes campaign was absolutely perfect, that Salmond cannot be criticized in any way and that its all the blame of Westminster, media bias etc.

     

    I call it as I see it, the BT campaign was dire, saved by fear of change and the inbuilt advantages of the status quo. The Yes campaign right message but failed to alleviate voters fear of change, not helped by a divisive Salmond who forgot that some Scots were worried about Scotlands relationship with the rUK.

     

    That's how I saw it, the surprise or not was that this referendum did indeed follow the psychological research in terms of voting behaviour. It's a shame Yes didn't bother to read this or indeed do something to bring those older voters in.

     

    I sense a lot of the frustration left over from last Thursday isn't just the loss but the nagging feeling for many Yes supporters that this could have been won.

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    • Election weather- Still chilly with showers to dodge on May 6th

      Voting takes place on May 6th across Britain with Scottish and Welsh parliamentary elections, Mayoral and local councils including for London Mayor. If you've not postal voted, what's the weather for Thursday? Read more here

      Jo Farrow
      Jo Farrow
      Latest weather updates from Netweather

      UK Storm and Severe Convective Forecast

      UK Severe Convective & Storm Forecast - Issued 2021-05-05 09:08:00 Valid: 05/05/2021 0600 - 06/05/2021 0600 THUNDERSTORM WATCH - WEDS 5TH MAY 2021 Click here for the full forecast

      Nick F
      Nick F
      Latest weather updates from Netweather

      Unseasonably cool & showery theme continues, wet & windy but milder this weekend

      Chilly with sunshine & showers by day for the rest of the week, where skies clear at night a frost is likely too. Turning wet & windy over the weekend, but at least it will be a little warmer. Read the full update here

      Netweather forecasts
      Netweather forecasts
      Latest weather updates from Netweather
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