Jump to content
Cold?
Local
Radar
Snow?

Scottish Politics 2011-2017


Recommended Posts

Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    As a Northern Irish unionist you should know the power of the ballot box and maintaining majority rule. If 50 percent of Scots vote SNP, that negates the referendum.

    Your only as good as your last result is the football metaphor.

     

    Nonsense. Not all those who vote SNP support independence. Taking an SNP majority as meaning that a majority support one of the elements of SNP policy (i.e., independence) is simply ludicrous.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Spotted a post you think may be an issue? Please help the team by reporting it.
    • Replies 30.9k
    • Created
    • Last Reply

    Top Posters In This Topic

    • Scottish-Irish Skier

      8874

    • mountain shadow

      1528

    • skifreak

      1435

    • frogesque

      1306

    Top Posters In This Topic

    Popular Posts

    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

    Posted Images

    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    But I don't see any chance what so ever of Scotland going down the UDI route.

    Ironically it was Lib Dem and Labour people, such as George Galloway MP (he of Just say Naw fame) that were talking about convening the Scottish Grand Committee as the Estates of Scotland and declaring UDI in the 1990s.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Will it still be the SNP by the time the GE comes around?

     

    Saw a couple of MSPs debating this earlier with respect to 20,000 new party members arriving and musing they would not necessarily be nationalists therefore a name change perhaps is required ?

     

    A name change would also tone down Independence or nothing hangover from the referendum. DevoMax will be the benchmark for the Vow,  Sillars wrote earlier today - compare what is offered to Devomax, nothing else will do.

     

    The we'll save the NHS thing from Labour rankles in the face of the last few weeks campaigning, especially considering this was the third most important agenda within the no vote behind the pound and pensions, whilst more than half of Yes voters identified NHS as the most important subject. 

     

    Save it via not helping kids? That to me is insane. The 2 differing messages North and South of the border laid bare at conference.

     

    In relation to the membership increase within the SNP, I wonder if there is an element of rebound their also, with Salmond gone and Sturgeon more attractive to folks that could never support the FM due to personal dislike. If so, it's Ironic then that the continued demonisation could actually serve to further the post- ref SNP membership bounce.

     

    UDI looks toxic to me, granted I have not read up enough on the technical / legal side. Judging response and journo output on twitter indicates this could be political suicide as policy to pursue.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    While there is the legal possibility of UDI (and it would have some sympathy if they got 51% of Westminster seats with an explicit manifesto commitment) the reality is that a government just declaring it for some of the poxy reasons given would not survive for very long be it due to civil unrest, Westminster freezing your accounts or being voted out for doing so.

    The Australian example is very weak. By the 1980's they had their own foreign policy, we'd chosen to join Europe and we were no longer linked via the preferential visas we had back then. Scotland at worst would be a federal state declaring independence.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    But not all SNP voters voted Yes? Maybe some people just like their other policies. Lets be honest how many won't vote SNP if their manifesto states clearly that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence.

     

    If you thought BT was Project Fear on the referendum it will be project Complete Apocalypse if that was the case.

     

    And this time that would be fact as you'd have to be mad to vote for that as the repercussions would be catastrophic.

     

    If the extra powers that go to Scotland don't meet with the approval of Scottish voters then I'm sure another referendum would follow. But I don't see any chance what so ever of Scotland going down the UDI route.

    Indeed. And not all the unionist party voters voted No. Take a look at the Lib Dem / Labour statistics.

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Paris suburbs
  • Location: Paris suburbs

    The independence by parliamentary majority is absurd. If it was a legitimate option, then it would've been mentioned well before the referendum failed. Why mention it now?

    Scottish people have spoken and 55% of an 85% turnout voting against independence on a single issue question says a lot more than a 5-year term for a parliament that deals with so more than just the independence question.

    Any arguments defending the move revolve around technicalities and inflexible laws resulting from our lack of constitution which is exactly the kind of thing that Yes supporters should oppose.

    I'm just gonna pretend I never read it and hope it doesn't crop up again. I assume it won't.

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    The independence by parliamentary majority is absurd. If it was a legitimate option, then it would've been mentioned well before the referendum failed. Why mention it now?Scottish people have spoken and 55% of an 85% turnout voting against independence on a single issue question says a lot more than a 5-year term for a parliament that deals with so more than just the independence question.Any arguments defending the move revolve around technicalities and inflexible laws resulting from our lack of constitution which is exactly the kind of thing that Yes supporters should oppose.I'm just gonna pretend I never read it and hope it doesn't crop up again. I assume it won't.

    Bear in mind that things would have to go truly awfully before the SNP, Greens and Socialists would ever do that.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Paris suburbs
  • Location: Paris suburbs

    Bear in mind that things would have to go truly awfully before the SNP, Greens and Socialists would ever do that.

    Yes, and something drastic would have to happen for me to change my mind on it too.
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Yes, and something drastic would have to happen for me to change my mind on it too.

    Don't worry, it's not going to happen. Another referendum and landslide yes if they fail to deliver, yes. but definitely, definitely not UDI.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    The International Court of Justice, in a 2010 advisory opinion, declared that unilateral declarations of independence were not illegal under international law.

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence

     

     

    Edited by pip22
    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Should the SNP make a manifesto pledge at the GE next year on independence and they obtain 50.1 percent of the vote, then they have a democratic mandate to leave the Union.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    And they keep coming. Incredible

     

    https://twitter.com/PeterMurrell

     

    Peter Murrell @PeterMurrell · 25m
    Big shout out and huge welcome to our 21,464 new @theSNP members. Please bear with our struggling servers, join now: https://my.snp.org/join 

     

     
     
    And jeez, I haven't even bought ordered my 'Told you so' T-shirt yet.
     

    image1.jpg

     

    Also, when was the Last time the SNP got 40% (lab 28%) in a Yougov UKGE subset? That's with a 44 to 28 down-weighting.

     

    Comes on the back of Ed's 15% sat vs 80% unsat on Sunday. A new record low.

     

    ---

     

    For the record, an electoral mandate for independence is perfectly legal and originates from unionist parties. As noted, it's what I grew up with; if I had a £ for the number of times Labour and the Tories said this during my youth.

     

    Scottish MPs can withdraw Scotland from the union if they wish. In theory, the Scottish parliament can too if it had a >50% vote with that a clear manifesto pledge.

     

    I don't expect it however, not for now anyway. Would need very pressing circumstances.

    • Like 4
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Should the SNP make a manifesto pledge at the GE next year on independence and they obtain 50.1 percent of the vote, then they have a democratic mandate to leave the Union.

    No. Because you still have no way if knowing if that particular pledge is why every single person voted for them. Seriously: you lost. Deal with it.

    • Like 6
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Hot sunny summers, cold snowy winters
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL

    The International Court of Justice, in a 2010 advisory opinion, declared that unilateral declarations of independence were not illegal under international law.

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence

    Its not about whether its legal or not <shakes head>

     

    Scotland faced tricky obstacles with a YES win, UDI would be economic suicide.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    Its not about whether its legal or not <shakes head>

     

    Scotland faced tricky obstacles with a YES win, UDI would be economic suicide.

    No, it wouldn't be any economic suicide if they found oil. It be a economic boost. We are still arguing even after the close referendum results.

    Edited by pip22
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Alresford, Near Colchester, Essex
  • Weather Preferences: As long as it's not North Sea muck, I'll cope.
  • Location: Alresford, Near Colchester, Essex

    Nice to see Andy Murray saying effectively 'let's move on' There's no point in harping on about the referendum now; Scots will get much more devolved power and it would be foolish to think these powers won't be devolved - people generally don't like others to break promises, even if they'd rather promises hadn't been made.

     

    He obviously wants Scottish independence and why not? I'd have been a yes to independence, if I were Scottish - and nothing to do with economics, more for national identity. At least AM is being rather eloquent now and shouldn't suffer any loss of support from anyone.

     

    He is very unlike Mountain Shadow here, who seems to be suffering from an excess of bile, with talk of battles and wars. I've not read this thread for a couple of days and still he rants. Why not give it a rest?

    • Like 7
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    I see the FTSE100 was sat around 6840 on 19th, currently down to 6684, so a drop of around 2.3%.

     

    So where's the headlines?

     

    "Billions wiped off Stock Market as Scotland votes against Independence"

     

    "Markets shaken as implications of Scotland's No vote sink in"

     

    "Big 5 supermarket shares plummet as Scottish voters vow to avoid price rises by shopping at Aldi & Lidl"

     

    All in jest of course, but the headlines equating a slight stock market fall in the wake of one good Yes poll were probably equally as silly.

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Now that purdah is over, Public exhibitions announced on final route choice for the 30km Inverness - Auldearn A96 dualling will be held in Auldearn, Nairn and Inverness on 5/6/7th October. Design contract due to be tendered early next year with it going through the statutory processes in 2016.

    Also confirmed first construction phase on A9 dualling, the Kincraig / Alvie stretch due to start next June after the recent completion of ground survey works. Expected to be an announcement soon that the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route construction will be rejigged to allow some sections to open early to relieve particularly severely congested areas prior to full route completion.

    So far the Scottish Government is continuing to drive forward major infrastructure projects to better connect Scotland with a view to providing the infrastructure to more equally spread around economic growth and opportunity across Scotland. This is despite negative Barnett consequentials from reduction in UK Govt capital spending and the UK Govt's increasing classification of English infrastructure projects as 'UK infrastructure' to avoid any Barnett Consiquentials.

    Perhaps one of the ironies of the referendum campaign is that the Scottish Government has been very adapt at sheltering Scotland from some of the fall-out from austerity, maintaining capital expenditure, shifting funds from the already reduced block grant to boost local government discretionary spending to nullify the 'bedroom tax' for example. Without DevoMax coming down the line quickly, these options will start to run out.

    • Like 5
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sirajdatoo/better-together-campaign-chief-we-would-have-struggled-to-wi#2ovf1ek

     

    Better Together Campaign Chief: We Would Have Struggled To Win Without Scaremongering
     
    Blair McDougall said that if the campaign had listened to newspaper columnists calling for an emotional case for the union, Scotland might have voted for independence.

     

     
     
    Sure, it worked, but for how long?
     
    As we know, polls consistently showed those that sat down and did their research rather than listening to the mainstream media generally moved to yes. Now that independence is mainstream, having the support of 45% of the population, the topic will continue to be one for the pub, the office, parties, with this being weighed up against what may or may not be offered in terms of devolution.
     
    The MSM in Scotland continues to die, being replaced by pro-indy online media. Wings readership has gone up since the referendum - hit 900,000 yesterday. Also 10,000 new twitter followers.
     
    SNP membership on course to double since the referendum. Greens and SSP enjoying huge surges too.
     
    Things will never be the same again. 
     
    Its really quite inspiring.
    Edited by scottish skier
    • Like 3
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    No. Because you still have no way if knowing if that particular pledge is why every single person voted for them. Seriously: you lost. Deal with it.

    There's a lot of talk about the Yes camp losing. Bear in mind that many in the Yes camp are gradualists who would have preferred to push for Devo-max. In those terms, 'they', alongside a portion of the No camp, won. That's in the event that Devo-max is delivered.

    • Like 2
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    Sure, it worked, but for how long?

     

    As we know, polls consistently showed those that sat down and did their research rather than listening to the mainstream media generally moved to yes. Now that independence is mainstream, having the support of 45% of the population, the topic will continue to be one for the pub, the office, parties, with this being weighed up against what may or may not be offered in terms of devolution.

     

    The MSM in Scotland continues to die, being replaced by pro-indy online media. Wings readership has gone up since the referendum - hit 900,000 yesterday. Also 10,000 new twitter followers.

    As we know from the failure of the yes vote, what is said or happens online doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world.

     

    SNP membership on course to double since the referendum. Greens and SSP enjoying huge surges too.

     

    Things will never be the same again. 

     

    Its really quite inspiring.

    As we know from the failure of the yes vote, what is said or happens online doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world. Wow the parties where Scottish independence (or clearly lack of) is discussed must be ones not to be missed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz lol.

    Surely you cannot have forgotten already that massive support online doesn't necessarily equate to victory at the ballot boxes.

    I looked up the Wings Over Scotland website a few days ago. They came across as pretty much sore losers and not pleasant people when it came to what they had to say about the no voters.

    Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
    • Like 2
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

     

    SNP membership on course to double since the referendum.

     

    Oh do try to keep up.....

     

    The SNP retweeted

    Sporting a new t-shirt for the occasion, this cheeky chap on my desk has a HUGE announcement. @theSNP 50,000 strong!! pic.twitter.com/GcPr2WLWG7

     

     

    • Like 4
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

     

    He is very unlike Mountain Shadow here, who seems to be suffering from an excess of bile, with talk of battles and wars. I've not read this thread for a couple of days and still he rants. Why not give it a rest?

     

    The Yes movement is moving on, deal with it.

     

    If you think I'm going to pipe down and get back in my wee Scottish cringe box, you are very much mistaken. 1.6 millions Scots are proud they managed to acheive what they did despite the lies, broken promises, Westminster propoganda machine and having the full weight of th press against them.

     

    We fight on, we fight on to win.

    Edited by mountain shadow
    • Like 3
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    The Yes movement is moving on, deal with it.

    IMO the yes movement has pretty much become a laughing stock in the way they have acted in defeat.

    It's a bit like some tyrannical leader from a despot country in Africa that refuses to step down even though the majority don't want him there.

    Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
    • Like 5
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Guest
    This topic is now closed to further replies.
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...