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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    SNP - 25,642 (as of Thu 5pm) + 16,186 (latest Tweet) = 41,828

     

    Lib Dems - 43,451 in 2013 according to Wikipedia

     

    So probably only a couple of thousand short.

     

    42,336 at 4pm today according to the latest SNP facebook post. I'm going to rejoin, I let my membership lapse when I moved down here but it's defo time to get behind them again. And to think if it had been a YES vote I would have considered voting for other parties. Shame on me :D

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Edit;

     

    Sorry, wrong thread.......   Moved to Middle East thread.

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Yes, well the whole 'A defeat in the iref will destroy the SNP and Labour will return to its rightful place as the party of Scotland' is working out well then.

     

    Labour in serious trouble in Scotland - mass resignations of party members at grass roots level. Must be lonely at City Chambers; the last unionist outpost in the People's Independent Scottish Republic of Glasgow.

     

    Meanwhile, what's this whole thing with Ed being anti-English and supporting Scots (and welsh, NI) MPs voting on English only laws when English MPs can't do the same? That's an election loser if I ever saw one. Time to focus on England Ed and let Scotland go or you'll hand the GE to Dave on a plate. English devolution and a EU ref. That's a winner in the shires.

     

    If Labour finally dies in Scotland in May 2015 - which there's a very good chance of - the union as we know it is over.

     

    Some kind of federalism needed and quick. The English are rising too now - and that is something the British establishment fear far more than the celtic fringe rebelling.

     

    ---

     

    From the worlds foremost expert on referenda.

     

     
    ‘Yes landslide’ if Westminster breaks powers vow
     
    Scottish independence: A leading academic has warned Westminster that failure to deliver on its powers promise could prompt a second referendum - with the result a landslide victory for the Yes campaign.
     
    Dr Matt Qvortrup said that last Thursday’s result - which saw 45 per cent of voters back Scotland’s breakaway from the UK - should serve as a ‘wake-up call to the chattering classes’ in England.

     

     

    This is turning out to be as much fun as the practice run.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Can people just define Scottish Labour dying? I've heard it said here but chances are they'll still breach 30%.

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    SS, a little way to go yet before the English demand an English Parliament or devolved power.

    One has to remember the greatest level of election apathy has been in England, over last 10 years or so. The establishment politicians have a lot of work to do to convince the English to take an interest in politics again.

     

    There are also a fair proportion of English people who are wary of more political bureaucracy - do we really desire another level of government and everything that comes with it? Administrators, local 'committees', local budgets, etc - all paid for as 'extras' by local taxpayers.

    Hmmm......not sure if that's for me.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Can people just define Scottish Labour dying? I've heard it said here but chances are they'll still breach 30%.

     

    Out of power at both Holyrood and Westminster level (in terms of Scottish MPs).

     

    The end of an era and Labour in Scotland then might ask what the point of the current union is, what with the trough and ermine gone.

     

    May 15 is FPTP. If Scots do what they did in 2011 constituency, that would give 70% SNP MPs from Scotland.

     

    We know the SNP will wipe out the Libs - can they take out Labour too?

     

    An army are flocking to them right now, unprompted, fed by the 45%.

     

    Greens and SSP are getting the same.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    SS, a little way to go yet before the English demand an English Parliament or devolved power.

    One has to remember the greatest level of election apathy has been in England, over last 10 years or so. The establishment politicians have a lot of work to do to convince the English to take an interest in politics again.

     

    There are also a fair proportion of English people who are wary of more political bureaucracy - do we really desire another level of government and everything that comes with it? Administrators, local 'committees', local budgets, etc - all paid for as 'extras' by local taxpayers.

    Hmmm......not sure if that's for me.

     

    BBC comments are a fine sight anyway; Ed might want to read them.

     

    I'd think it great if the massive level of political engagement happening in Scotland also happened south of the border.

     

    Right now I accept Yes came close, but no cigar. I still support indy and will continue to campaign for it, but I'm prepared to see what's offered and if it stinks, well.. back to full push for indy.

     

    Nothing less than Devo Max federalism - everything but Foreign affairs and defence and asked for since 2007 - will suffice. If not, a vote on indy again and folk can decide.

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    Posted
  • Location: Peterborough
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and frost in the winter. Hot and sunny, thunderstorms in the summer.
  • Location: Peterborough

    BBC comments are a fine sight anyway; Ed might want to read them.

     

    I'd think it great if the massive level of political engagement happening in Scotland also happened south of the border.

     

    Right now I accept Yes came close, but no cigar. I still support indy and will continue to campaign for it, but I'm prepared to see what's offered and if it stinks, well.. back to full push for indy.

     

    Nothing less than Devo Max federalism - everything but Foreign affairs and defence and asked for since 2007 - will suffice. If not, a vote on indy again and folk can decide.

    Hopefully we will see the slow and steady move to that over the coming years, hopefully accompanied by similar motions for the other members of the UK. 

    Slightly worried about the politics as the demise of labour look imminent both north and south of the border. Not that I would vote for them, but the fact the we would probably be left with the Tories and UKIP. Something very unsavoury to me.

    Milliband is a complete and utter imbecile. 

    Given the actions of many in Scotland, I too might look to join a political party, that being said my journey will probably be a lot harder than those across the border, mainly as the mainstream consists of either buffoons or parties who I disagree with their fundamental ideology.

    Edited by Captain shortwave
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    SNP now the UK's third largest political party. Will we see less of Nigel Farage on TV now and implications for the '3 main' party leaders debates for the 2015 General Election?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     

     

    But sections of both sides of this referendum should be ashamed of themselves.

     

     

    I don't want to argue about this, but no, that's not how it went. You've been told it went that way by the British media because of course that's what they'd do. Anti 'separatist' propaganda 101.

     

    Panelbase, like other pollsters, in the end got it right. I underestimated the effect of the fear factor; something which was caused by most people I know and meet supporting Yes, but the elderly, less 'visible' to the younger generations, voting No.

     

    What people in Scotland thought:

     

    Panelbase (just prior to the referendum):

     

    Regardless of the outcome, do you think that deciding Scotland's future in a democratic referendum is something that the people of Scotland can be proud of?
     
    69% Yes
    15% No
     
    The 15% was comprised essentially entirely of No voters, but then they would say that as they never wanted it in the first place.
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Milliband is a complete and utter imbecile. 

    I think you rate him a bit too highly there. If that man ever becomes the PM of the UK we'll be the laughing stock of Europe, or indeed the world. It's come to something when someone of my background (born and raised in the Labour heartlands of central Scotland, son of a steel worker and trade union shop steward) actually would prefer Cameron to stay PM than risk having Milliband in the position.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29306444

     

    Seems it's OK for Tesco to be economical with the truth to the YES campaign but definitely not to it's shareholders.

     

    "

    Tesco has suspended four executives, including its UK managing director, after the supermarket overstated its half-year profit guidance by £250m.

    That would be almost a quarter of its expected profit for the period.

    "

     

    Pigeons and roost come to mind

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    SNP now the UK's third largest political party. Will we see less of Nigel Farage on TV now and implications for the '3 main' party leaders debates for the 2015 General Election?

     

    https://twitter.com/PeterMurrell/status/514139236396957697

     

    In the last 100 hours, @theSNP has grown to become the third largest political party in the UK. An incredible 19,558 new members and rising

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    Posted
  • Location: North of Falkirk
  • Weather Preferences: North Atlantic cyclogenesis
  • Location: North of Falkirk


    21h00 update, @theSNP membership stands at 45,310. Ooops, no make that 45,313, no 45, 317... just can't keep up!! https://my.snp.org/join 


    WOW!!!!!!!


     


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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

     

    21h00 update, @theSNP membership stands at 45,310. Ooops, no make that 45,313, no 45, 317... just can't keep up!! https://my.snp.org/join 

    WOW!!!!!!!

     

     

    Website in overload - can't get on!

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    Alex Salmond is a very clever man, he says:

    ''Scotland could declare itself independent without a referendum in the future''.

    He also added:

     

    if the Scottish Parliament was given more powers until “you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name … “then presumably, you declare yourself to be independentâ€.  “Many countries have proceeded through that route,†he said in an interview with

    Sky News’ Murnaghan programme.

     

    Johann Lamont, the Scottish Labour leader, told The Daily Telegraph that Mr Salmond should not try to “overthrow the will of the Scottish people in some sort of coupâ€.

     

    “His words are fundamentally undemocratic and an insult to the people of Scotland. Salmond may regret the result but this reaction is dangerous and wrong.â€

    Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at the University of Glasgow, said a unilateral declaration of independence would be illegal and “bonkersâ€.

     

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

     

    21h00 update, @theSNP membership stands at 45,310. Ooops, no make that 45,313, no 45, 317... just can't keep up!! https://my.snp.org/join 

    WOW!!!!!!!

     

     

    Same thing happened after the last GE in that the Labour membership shot up. A loss can often have the effect of boosting membership of the party that loses as its supporters determine to "make up" for the loss and join to fight another round. 

     

    I'm not sure why the SNP rise is being treated with such awe and surprise.

    Alex Salmond is a very clever man, he says:

    ''Scotland could declare itself independent without a referendum in the future''.

    He also added:

     

    if the Scottish Parliament was given more powers until “you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name … “then presumably, you declare yourself to be independentâ€.  “Many countries have proceeded through that route,†he said in an interview with

    Sky News’ Murnaghan programme.

     

    Johann Lamont, the Scottish Labour leader, told The Daily Telegraph that Mr Salmond should not try to “overthrow the will of the Scottish people in some sort of coupâ€.

     

    “His words are fundamentally undemocratic and an insult to the people of Scotland. Salmond may regret the result but this reaction is dangerous and wrong.â€

    Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at the University of Glasgow, said a unilateral declaration of independence would be illegal and “bonkersâ€.

     

    Why does that make Salmond clever? Sounds pretty idiotic and undemocratic to me.

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    SNP states that if we win 50 % of the 52 Scottish Westminster seats which is 26 seats then we have legal mandate to declare independence. Its not so undemocratic if 45% of people becomes 51% favors independence. They only need 6%.

    Edited by pip22
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    SNP states that if we win 50 % of the 52 Scottish Westminster seats which is 26 seats then we have legal mandate to declare independence.

     

    But neither a democratic nor a moral one.

     

    Seriously, that is a totally ridiculous and anti-democratic line, and I would hope it would be flat-out rejected by most level-headed SNP voters and YES voters.

    Edited by NickR
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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    But neither a democratic nor a moral one.

     

    Seriously, that is a totally ridiculous and anti-democratic line, and I would hope it would be flat-out rejected by most level-headed SNP voters and YES voters.

    Look, even democracy is not perfect. Which is true.

    Edited by pip22
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Look, even democracy is not perfect.

     

     

    Surely you're not suggesting that as a valid argument for riding roughshod over anything approaching democracy, are you?

    Edited by NickR
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    Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    Just out of interest - are Scot voters happy with the (West Lothian) concept that each respective country's MP's voting on their own internal matters whilst joining together with the rest of the Union on International matters? So that the Scottish MP's don't vote on English only concerns in the same way that the English can't vote in Holyrood.

     

    I can't understand why any party would oppose this on common sense grounds (only self interest grounds). And I don't see why it should take long to work out practical arrangements for this either, as most of the electorate with half a brain cell can get their head around this fairly quickly.

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    Posted
  • Location: North of Falkirk
  • Weather Preferences: North Atlantic cyclogenesis
  • Location: North of Falkirk

    Website in overload - can't get on!

    Ditto!! 

    Same thing happened after the last GE in that the Labour membership shot up. A loss can often have the effect of boosting membership of the party that loses as its supporters determine to "make up" for the loss and join to fight another round. 

     

     

    The irony is the new SNP membership is coming from Labour. Do catch up.

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