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Rumour that has turned out not to be true. Think 3 dead at the hands of no voters would have been reported now don't you. Oh wait no the government could have covered it up if course.

Twitter thrives on people talking cobblers.

 

Hence the start of the post saying "100% unconfirmed" and the hope that it was "nonsense". Plus I don't do Twitter, never have.

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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We have now entered the "neverendum" phase. This isnt going away anytime soon. 

 

Its now time to eradicate the new labour liars from scotland , regroup and plan the next referendum.

 

 

 

It will go away if the extra powers materialise, so time will tell on that one.

 

I'm not sure how long it will last but there is a massive outpouring against Labour. If there is a feeling that the new powers aren't going to happen then Labour can kiss goodbye to their Scottish MPs. Eight months is a long time in politics though.

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Just catching up on this thread after giving it a break last nite.

The Q posed by a few about why Scottish No voters are not replying or active on social media?

Simple answer to that imo -

Most of that dignified 'silent majority' didnt even want the referendum - they were fed up with it when it started a couple of years ago. And then obviously when it came to polling day they quietly exercised their democratic right to vote to preserve the union that they never wanted to divorce from.

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It will go away if the extra powers materialise, so time will tell on that one.

 

I'm not sure how long it will last but there is a massive outpouring against Labour. If there is a feeling that the new powers aren't going to happen then Labour can kiss goodbye to their Scottish MPs. Eight months is a long time in politics though.

Possibly catch. 

 

I think we need to pick ourselves up again and direct all our ammo at new labour in scotland. That has to be our new starting point  .

 

Furthermore , i think the snp government should resign en masse like the honourable mr salmond. Call a new election.

 

What has angered me is people hiding behind the protection of the snp government while spurning them at the indie ballot box. I am sure you have heard or read comments like i dont care as long as i get my free tuition etc etc.

 

All want to be british and part of the uk , safety net and all that but dont want the bad things like tuition fees , council tax rises , prescription charges etc.  Time to bring all these in the same as what the good people of england have to pay and listen to the howls of anger .

 

Want to be part of the uk? Time to become british then like the people in england and homogenise policies across the uk instead of hiding behind the snp protection from the worst of the cuts that are still to come. 

 

I see also milliband dithering over new powers , as we knew they would , because he fears losing his scottish labour mps voting on english issues.  Fully agree with farage and the tories , english votes on english only issues. This isnt going anywhere catch , total can of worms. 

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Just catching up on this thread after giving it a break last nite.

The Q posed by a few about why Scottish No voters are not replying or active on social media?

Simple answer to that imo -

Most of that dignified 'silent majority' didnt even want the referendum - they were fed up with it when it started a couple of years ago. And then obviously when it came to polling day they quietly exercised their democratic right to vote to preserve the union that they never wanted to divorce from.

 

That was what I was trying to get across with my "minority of the majority...." post.

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I see also milliband dithering over new powers , as we knew they would , because he fears losing his scottish labour mps voting on english issues.  Fully agree with farage and the tories , english votes on english only issues. This isnt going anywhere catch , total can of worms. 

 

I agree it probably isn't going anywhere, I'm trying my best to suspend my disbelief at the promises of new powers. It's good to see the devolution debate properly sparked down south, finally!

 

I understand the thoughts on the SNP showing the public what life in the UK should really mean (i.e. equal public spending and identical policies across the board), time will tell if they've got the balls to do it though. We have been cossetted to a certain degree (I wonder why?) so I can see the logic in what you're saying, I'm not sure the SNP will go down that path though.

 

Labour in Scotland, as it stands today, are finished. They'll need to come back fighting and come up with something to appeal to their core vote. Their old core vote have voted for independence in massive numbers, for example in the west of Scotland. A lot of the vote has come down to affluence, regardless of what anyone thinks about who voted no: "it's the oldies" or "it's the English born" or any other theory, it's come down to money. The more you have to lose the more likely you are to be in favour of the union.

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Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behaves. The dignity from the vast majority shown by the no voters in victory is exactly the same that would have been shown in defeat and the yes voters could well learn from it. Try blaming the uncertainties regarding the currency, the EU, jobs, nhs , pensions as well as a desire to remain part of the Uk that decided the vote. The yes vote could and should have done more to address this.

 

You're right, there has been some bile posted both here and elsewhere, but I don't think it's representative of anything wider than the individuals posting it. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of both yes and no voters are far more reasonable and willing to show a lot more humility, so probably a bit harsh to try and generalise and label whole groups of people because of the actions of the few?

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You're right, there has been some bile posted both here and elsewhere, but I don't think it's representative of anything wider than the individuals posting it. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of both yes and no voters are far more reasonable and willing to show a lot more humility, so probably a bit harsh to try and generalise and label whole groups of people because of the actions of the few?

I guess so, Paul - but unfortunately the bile sticks out like a sore thumb, so the more reasonable and humble postings are lost amongst it. As it happens I don't think that all the YES voters are representative of this type of behaviour and, like the silent No voters are probably keeping themselves to themselves, in quiet disappointment. It is a pity that quite often in life those with the least to say shout the loudest, so that those with the most to say are often drowned out. It certainly has felt that way on this thread - though with some notable exceptions.

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I agree it probably isn't going anywhere, I'm trying my best to suspend my disbelief at the promises of new powers. It's good to see the devolution debate properly sparked down south, finally!

 

I understand the thoughts on the SNP showing the public what life in the UK should really mean (i.e. equal public spending and identical policies across the board), time will tell if they've got the balls to do it though. We have been cossetted to a certain degree (I wonder why?) so I can see the logic in what you're saying, I'm not sure the SNP will go down that path though.

 

Labour in Scotland, as it stands today, are finished. They'll need to come back fighting and come up with something to appeal to their core vote. Their old core vote have voted for independence in massive numbers, for example in the west of Scotland. A lot of the vote has come down to affluence, regardless of what anyone thinks about who voted no: "it's the oldies" or "it's the English born" or any other theory, it's come down to money. The more you have to lose the more likely you are to be in favour of the union.

 

That's a good point, it's no coincidence that poor Glasgow and Dundee voted yes, while "oil rich" Aberdeen voted no. I found it curious, however, that Aberdeen + shire, Orkney and Shetland were so overwhelmingly "no". While they are (or potentially) resource wealthy and have more to lose (again...potentially) from a yes win I half expected these regions to have a substantial yes support. Why? Because of the strong economic case put forward for an iScotland to prosper from its vast oil reserves. Why didn't the "oil counties" share this vision? Does Aberdeen feel the oil industry is best served in the UK? Short term security and gain vs long term prosperity? Which was it?

Edited by March Blizzard
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I agree it probably isn't going anywhere, I'm trying my best to suspend my disbelief at the promises of new powers. It's good to see the devolution debate properly sparked down south, finally!

 

I understand the thoughts on the SNP showing the public what life in the UK should really mean (i.e. equal public spending and identical policies across the board), time will tell if they've got the balls to do it though. We have been cossetted to a certain degree (I wonder why?) so I can see the logic in what you're saying, I'm not sure the SNP will go down that path though.

 

Labour in Scotland, as it stands today, are finished. They'll need to come back fighting and come up with something to appeal to their core vote. Their old core vote have voted for independence in massive numbers, for example in the west of Scotland. A lot of the vote has come down to affluence, regardless of what anyone thinks about who voted no: "it's the oldies" or "it's the English born" or any other theory, it's come down to money. The more you have to lose the more likely you are to be in favour of the union.

There will be no significant new powers. This is being strung out for the moment , possibly till the ukge . Why would they? If , and its a big if , we get any new powers they will be meaningless gestures or done in a way to affect the barnett formula funding. Time this was done away with as well.

 

Time for no voters to take their medicine now. These are exactly the whinging jocks that the good people of england go on about. 

 

As for new labour , i would vote conservative before i will ever vote for that party again. 

 

I appreciate what you say about the demographic of the no voters , but my point coincides with yours in my earlier posts. The majority of the wealth in these islands is concentrated in the over 55`s. 

 

If money is all they care about , then time to pay for the union. 

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That's a good point, it's no coincidence that poor Glasgow and Dundee voted yes, while "oil rich" Aberdeen voted no. I found it curious, however, that Aberdeen + shire, Orkney and Shetland were so overwhelmingly "no". While they are (or potentially) resource wealthy and have more to lose (again...potentially) from a yes win I half expected these regions to have a substantial yes support. Why? Because of the strong economic case put forward for an iScotland to prosper from its vast oil reserves. Why didn't the "oil counties" share this vision? Does Aberdeen feel the oil industry is best served in the UK? Short term security and gain vs long term prosperity? Which was it?

Good post march , and i  guess the reasoning behind the vote will be looked at over the coming months.

 

Isnt the majority of reasoning behind decisions in the uk based on short termism? Me Me ME now now now?!

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only win can be a snide win easy as Britain cheats at everything we have seen it before

Britain cheats at everything? Didn't see that at the recent Olympics. I can only surmise that the early hour you posted that, was that your brain was asleep but your bitter spleen was still wide awake.

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Over 55s and those at the bottom of the social scale, of which, I've no doubt these form a part.At no point did I ever see the over 55s should have a vote. I was merely drawing the perfectly reasonable argument that the vote of the elderly was in contrast to the young whose future is longer than the older folk. That is all.

I read somewhere..probably in Saga magazine rather than twatter or facelessbook, that the over 55+s are more likely to turnout to vote generally ( not just the Scot ref.)

As WE are a growing number OUR votes will become more important. Everyone better get used to it cos that's called democracy!

I'd like to think that most 55+ are also thinking of their children's futures so are less selfish when marking their cross in the box.

Edited by kar999
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I agree it probably isn't going anywhere, I'm trying my best to suspend my disbelief at the promises of new powers. It's good to see the devolution debate properly sparked down south, finally!

 

I understand the thoughts on the SNP showing the public what life in the UK should really mean (i.e. equal public spending and identical policies across the board), time will tell if they've got the balls to do it though. We have been cossetted to a certain degree (I wonder why?) so I can see the logic in what you're saying, I'm not sure the SNP will go down that path though.

 

Labour in Scotland, as it stands today, are finished. They'll need to come back fighting and come up with something to appeal to their core vote. Their old core vote have voted for independence in massive numbers, for example in the west of Scotland. A lot of the vote has come down to affluence, regardless of what anyone thinks about who voted no: "it's the oldies" or "it's the English born" or any other theory, it's come down to money. The more you have to lose the more likely you are to be in favour of the union.

I think Labour are worried across the UK full stop. Self interest from a UK position will prevent them from acting in Scotland's best interest and that this could prevent the flow of the further devolution process. Cameron is concerned that he will have a revolt on his hands if he gives further powers to Scotland without addressing the English constitutional imbalance and has therefore linked the two together. So we reach a stalemate where Scotland's further devolution stalls. Not satisfactory at all. I think that labour will have to come to terms that they will suffer as a result and should start working on policies that will make them attractive to the electorate on both sides of the border rather than focussing on what they have to lose.

 

And as I type I see that Gordon Brown is back to his dour normal self!

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Mike thanks for your reply. I think you mis understand the point i am making to essan and his argument. Wether or not your catalan friend is multi lingual , why do the british not speak british is my question to essan.

 

The reason i ask this is because , despite a multitude of evidence , essan is one of these people that think of the "british" as a homogenous island race. i have asked him to repeatedly prove it and he cannot. The scottish and english are as different or similar as any other nation in western europe , historically culturally politically etc. The difference is we are in a union and speak YOUR language. Essan doesnt quite get that.

 

As for the rest of your post , why should the 45% just meekly accept the referendum and go away never to be heard from again? Have to disagree.

 

All along i have thought a narrow no victory would be the worst possible outcome and so it has proved. The union has been saved by the ignorance and fears of the baby boomers , the most selfish , spoiled generation in history. Best pensions , best jobs , healthcare house prices etc , better than their father and grandfathers and better than their sons and grandsons , all of which we now have to pay for. 

 

We have now entered the "neverendum" phase. This isnt going away anytime soon. 

 

Its now time to eradicate the new labour liars from scotland , regroup and plan the next referendum.

 

Finally the freedoms you speak of that we have in these islands arent the benign gift of a wealthy nation. They are hard won freedoms that the ancestors of our differing nations in these islands fought for and gained at great expense .

 

If they had sat back and said im voting no because i fear for my final salary pension , where would we be now mike?

In the British Isles, we speak mostly English English, though there is a variant of Scottish English. The language we speak has evolved through time and to a large extent has replaced the various forms of Gaelic, which were the original languages. I accept that English as a language was imposed and to a large extent displaced a lot of the original languages but that is now history and apart from enthusiasts, who work at keeping the older languages alive, there is little we can do about it now.

 

The way different languages are formed gives an insight into the way people think - words come into being for reasons. It can follow from this that by being multi lingual this can give an insight into the way others think and broaden the mind.

 

Even the English within England varies from region to region being influenced by the different peoples who occupied these regions, which includes Scotland; this also being an homogenous collection of peoples as we all are. Despite gaining their independence nearly 100 years ago, the English language is still the main language of the Republic of Ireland and the legal system there still have more in common than the Scottish legal system which is very different to the English one.  so I do not make any apologies for my opening paragraph.

 

As one who experienced a number of differing tradition and cultures - I was born into a Catholic family and initially brought up in that faith but when my parents divorced I was sent to live with my grand mother who was Methodist and transferred to that faith for Sunday school, then attended a C of E school during week, I am wondering what all these various schisms are about because to me they are all variations on a theme.

 

All of our islands are governed on democratic principles which generally means that in the event of a dispute the majority takes the day as it did with the recent Scottish Referendum and the losing side should accept the result with good grace. Obviously things will not stand still and as time progresses other matters will come to the fore and it may well be that the subject of a further referendum may be raised again.

 

The Union was in fact saved by people of differing opinions and different life experiences to yourself - to classify them all as ignorant is a bit OTT - it is the differences between us all which helps life move on. There are many first class Scots well assimilated into England, as there are Welsh and Irish, so I do not think that we as English can be altogether bad.

 

I agree with you about our freedoms being hard won by past generations and not only by the indigenous people of these islands - the Battle of Britain, for example, was on a knife edge and it could be argued that the Polish airmen made the difference between us all speaking German and everything else that would have come with it or retaining the freedoms which are so valuable to us all and many in the world do not enjoy.

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I have been lambasted for saying the Scots have been hoodwinked, yet this is clearly what has happened.

I don't see it that way the No's were ahead in the polls before late promises were made. It may have influenced some to vote no but huge swathes were going to vote no anyway regardless.

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Good post march , and i  guess the reasoning behind the vote will be looked at over the coming months.

 

Isnt the majority of reasoning behind decisions in the uk based on short termism? Me Me ME now now now?!

 

I feel that's one thing the majority of people in the UK, wherever they are, would agree with. Scotland should be wealthy, it should have an oil fund like Norway, it should be the renewable energy capital of the world. Why isn't it?...

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There will be no significant new powers. This is being strung out for the moment , possibly till the ukge . Why would they? If , and its a big if , we get any new powers they will be meaningless gestures or done in a way to affect the barnett formula funding. Time this was done away with as well.

 

Time for no voters to take their medicine now. These are exactly the whinging jocks that the good people of england go on about. 

 

As for new labour , i would vote conservative before i will ever vote for that party again. 

 

I appreciate what you say about the demographic of the no voters , but my point coincides with yours in my earlier posts. The majority of the wealth in these islands is concentrated in the over 55`s. 

 

If money is all they care about , then time to pay for the union. 

 

Absolutely re the older generation, they voted NO en masse because of their affluence. I don't have figures for the English born but I would guess that the average English born voter in Scotland is better off than the average non-English born, hence the NO vote amongst this group. I think it's simpler than people are putting across, it's all about money on a personal level.

 

(before anyone jumps down my throat about the above comments, it's nothing aimed at the English born for being English, it's simply my opinion that they are likely to be wealthier and hence vote NO).

 

I can see where you're coming from with the whole "take your medicine", and I can see that's going to be a recurring theme from many people.

That's a good point, it's no coincidence that poor Glasgow and Dundee voted yes, while "oil rich" Aberdeen voted no. I found it curious, however, that Aberdeen + shire, Orkney and Shetland were so overwhelmingly "no". While they are (or potentially) resource wealthy and have more to lose (again...potentially) from a yes win I half expected these regions to have a substantial yes support. Why? Because of the strong economic case put forward for an iScotland to prosper from its vast oil reserves. Why didn't the "oil counties" share this vision? Does Aberdeen feel the oil industry is best served in the UK? Short term security and gain vs long term prosperity? Which was it?

 

No idea about why people voted the way they did up North, it's very difficult for me to comment when I don't know much about that area, or oil for that matter :)

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I think Labour are worried across the UK full stop. Self interest from a UK position will prevent them from acting in Scotland's best interest and that this could prevent the flow of the further devolution process. Cameron is concerned that he will have a revolt on his hands if he gives further powers to Scotland without addressing the English constitutional imbalance and has therefore linked the two together. So we reach a stalemate where Scotland's further devolution stalls. Not satisfactory at all. I think that labour will have to come to terms that they will suffer as a result and should start working on policies that will make them attractive to the electorate on both sides of the border rather than focussing on what they have to lose.

 

And as I type I see that Gordon Brown is back to his dour normal self!

 

If it's got so bad for labour that nationalists in Scotland are saying they'd vote Tory before voting Labour then you know they're in deep trouble. They need a rabbit, a hat and a big flash plus some smoke.

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I think Labour are worried across the UK full stop. Self interest from a UK position will prevent them from acting in Scotland's best interest and that this could prevent the flow of the further devolution process. Cameron is concerned that he will have a revolt on his hands if he gives further powers to Scotland without addressing the English constitutional imbalance and has therefore linked the two together. So we reach a stalemate where Scotland's further devolution stalls. Not satisfactory at all. I think that labour will have to come to terms that they will suffer as a result and should start working on policies that will make them attractive to the electorate on both sides of the border rather than focussing on what they have to lose.

 

And as I type I see that Gordon Brown is back to his dour normal self!

 

I'm watching it. I think he's both passionate and making excellent points. I suspect (none of us know) Labour may do better than you think.

 

As to England, what put me off Yes was it's nationalism. I live in part of these islands called England but I feel more part of these islands that any allegiance to a name, or a section of it. I also think MPs of our parliament have to have equal powers.

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In the British Isles, we speak mostly English English, though there is a variant of Scottish English. The language we speak has evolved through time and to a large extent has replaced the various forms of Gaelic, which were the original languages. I accept that English as a language was imposed and to a large extent displaced a lot of the original languages but that is now history and apart from enthusiasts, who work at keeping the older languages alive, there is little we can do about it now.

 

Thanks for your reply mike. I am fully aware of the history of gaidhlig , english and scots and the reason behind the celtic nations being english speaking to the detriment of their own languages. Again this misses my point to essan. 

 

The way different languages are formed gives an insight into the way people think - words come into being for reasons. It can follow from this that by being multi lingual this can give an insight into the way others think and broaden the mind.

 

Even the English within England varies from region to region being influenced by the different peoples who occupied these regions, which includes Scotland; this also being an homogenous collection of peoples as we all are. Despite gaining their independence nearly 100 years ago, the English language is still the main language of the Republic of Ireland and the legal system there still have more in common than the Scottish legal system which is very different to the English one.  so I do not make any apologies for my opening paragraph.

 

Once again all nations are a collection of differing people , once again this proves essan to be wrong that we are a homogenous island race. Language revival is extremely difficult , and irelands poor success in reviving gaelic is well documented.

 

As one who experienced a number of differing tradition and cultures - I was born into a Catholic family and initially brought up in that faith but when my parents divorced I was sent to live with my grand mother who was Methodist and transferred to that faith for Sunday school, then attended a C of E school during week, I am wondering what all these various schisms are about because to me they are all variations on a theme.

 

All of our islands are governed on democratic principles which generally means that in the event of a dispute the majority takes the day as it did with the recent Scottish Referendum and the losing side should accept the result with good grace. Obviously things will not stand still and as time progresses other matters will come to the fore and it may well be that the subject of a further referendum may be raised again.

 

I like to think , despite being extremely annoyed and hurt , ashamed , i accept the result of the referendum. How could i not?

45% voted for independance , if we had gained slightly more than another 5% we would have won. This is not a decisive victory for no , and out of the defeat i am encouraged , just like the good people of ireland over the centuries , to try again and never give up.

 

The Union was in fact saved by people of differing opinions and different life experiences to yourself - to classify them all as ignorant is a bit OTT - it is the differences between us all which helps life move on. There are many first class Scots well assimilated into England, as there are Welsh and Irish, so I do not think that we as English can be altogether bad.

 

I understand that mike , dont believe i did  class them ALL as ignorant but i take your point. 

 

please though mike , i have never said the english are bad. This is a straw man. Also a recurring argument. The referendum to me is about the scottish governing scotland , like any other independant nation around the world does , for better or worse. I just want a country of my own. I am not and never have been british. I dont identify with it , and for me the real british died out a thousand years ago when they accepted they had lost their island and changed their name to cymry , the compatriots.

 

I agree with you about our freedoms being hard won by past generations and not only by the indigenous people of these islands - the Battle of Britain, for example, was on a knife edge and it could be argued that the Polish airmen made the difference between us all speaking German and everything else that would have come with it or retaining the freedoms which are so valuable to us all and many in the world do not enjoy.

 

Freedoms are hard fought for and won , not given on a plate. Just as scottish independance will be.

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Question. What if Gordon Brown didn't offer Scots devo-max? Will the Better Together camp would've still won?

 

I think a lot of the silent majority, over 55's, middle class etc had made their minds up a long time before the 'vow', and to be fair most polls were always pretty much 52/48 ish, i said last week i think a lot of those who said they were undecided did so because they wanted to keep out of it given how vocal & passionate it was getting

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