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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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If Westminster don't deliver on ALL of their promises within the year. They should have another vote. I can see Westminster dithering already.

the English and the Welsh should be offered their own referendums before Scotland is allowed another bite at the cherry.

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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Couple of good articles from the fourth estate..

 

Alex Andreou gives the 1.6m Yes voters a stab at the Friday Feeling..

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/19/5-reasons-cheerful-voted-yes-scottish-independence

 

Alex Massie with a well measured assessment of today's playing field.

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/09/with-malice-toward-none-and-with-charity-towards-all-now-the-real-work-begins/

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Despite the result it seems significant change is coming to Scotland (more powers) and hopefully the rest of the UK. Going to be a testing time for Cameron. On the one hand hes going to have to address the demand for new powers from Scotland, however the English, and no doubt the other nations of the UK, are not going to sit idly by as Scotlands gets handed power after power while the rest get nothing. I noticed he said in his speech the English must be now heard too, although im not sure how this is going to be achieved. Interesting times ahead

 

Maybe it time some of the loudest opponents of Scotland's referendum vote might just turn around and say "You know what Scotland, thanks, that kick up the weeble was just what we all needed".

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One thing this does show is what a misleading waste of time canvassing and social media "likes" are in terms of judging what the electorate are thinking.

Well the final result was close enough to YouGov's unusual on the day poll to suggest HM Government's "Shock and Awe" blitz had the desired effect rather than there being a certain majority for no through the entire campaign. As Tom Devine said a few hours before the polling stations opened - win like this and the Union is still dead.

I've heard from a couple of late YES switchers and those who stuck to no and the message was similar and clear, Westminster has to deliver something radical in the proposed Scotland Bill before the year is out, they have to stick to the timetable and it has to be genuine change that has the consent of the Scottish Parliament. Westminster is not going to get away with just laying a fiscal trap and passing it of as more powers.

One local bit of solace for YES, what I was picking up locally wasn't off the mark after all. Fergus Ewing was half way through confirming on TV when he was interrupted by the Edinburgh declaration that the City of Inverness had it been declared on it's own rather than as an area division of the Highland Council would have beaten Dundee to the biggest YES win off the night.

Edited by skifreak
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The presumption that 'next time' Scotland may vote "Yes" because some of today's older voters, who voted "No", will no longer be with us then, is a little presumptious imo.

 

As people get older they (we) tend to get more cautious - a little concerned of losing what we've carefully built up over a lifetime's work, etc. Yes, probably more risk averse.

So, who's to say that some of those currently in the 35-50 age bracket, for example, who voted "Yes" yesterday, by the next time, may actually vote "No" because of the reasons i've outlined above?

 

Your theory will hold assuming that wealth keeps being distributed towards the older generation. Today's 30-60 year olds might not be as lucky as those over 60 in terms of accumulating wealth through a very buoyant housing market (for example). Is pension uptake/saving as high in the current 30-60 year olds as it was 30 years ago?

 

There's a big population bulge in Scotland centred around those in their mid-40s, if all these people become more risk averse in the next 20 years then the next referendum will be an even bigger No.

 

Certainly lots to get your teeth into if you're interested in this kind of thing.

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One local bit of solace for YES, what I was picking up locally wasn't off the mark after all. Fergus Ewing was half way through confirming on TV when he was interrupted by the Edinburgh declaration that the City of Inverness had it been declared on it's own rather than as an area division of the Highland Council would have beaten Dundee to the biggest YES win off the night.

 

One crumb of comfort was the Inverclyde result. I am stunned it was so close between YES and NO, only a few hundred votes in it. Traditionally in Inverclyde the urban areas are supposed Labour heartlands with the rural areas being very strong Tory/LibDem.

 

I thought I'd never see that happen, although recent election results had been pretty strong for the SNP.

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It seems that only Scotland has become more divided. Lot of (not all) YES campaigners hurling insults at everyone that didn't vote YES.

 

No Balls, try and drop it. Your gloating is just as pathetic as Mountain Shadows impatience and inability to see beyond the immediate rhetoric of a few MPs. At least MS has at last had the sense to say he's going to bow out for a while. If you don't wish to follow his lead then toning it down a bit would at least make this thread a little more pleasant.

 

There's been some really good points of view put across in this thread today, from both sides of the debate. In some ways though we're maybe beginning to diverge from the thread title 'Scottish Politics', maybe a new thread 'UK Constitutional Change' might be a good idea, if someone wishes to start it. After all I think after the result and the PMs statement today that might be a very interesting discussion.

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And this engagement from the English (and Welsh) depends on us becoming more energised politically again, because the last couple of General Elections have shown 'us' to be pretty apathetic.

So, first the English and Welsh MPs will need to show a lot more than they have in recent years that they DO actually listen.

 

Engage us first, and then convince us to wake from our apathetic slumber.

 

Agreed. The next election is going to be extremely interesting. Labour struggling in Scotland, UKIP on the rise in England, the Libs no doubt finished and the conservatives probably still struggling to get a majority. Hopefully mps can engage the UK populous with politics as Scotland has engaged people during this debate

Edited by Mark Bayley
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45% was both an amazing achievement, but a disappointment.

 

Just have to wait a bit longer.

 

Time for a polling holiday.

 

The next fun comes in 2015. If polls continue as they are, Labour will die at Westminster level in Scotland. I wonder how much they'll value the union then.

 

The Yes majority across Glasgow tells you what's waiting for them as thanks for their pact with the Tories.

 

A UK divided like never before, with the union dying each day passes.

 

How the vote went:

You are nothing if not consistent. You are as graceless in defeat as you were throughout the campaign. Congratulate the victors and be determined to work with them for a better Scotland and a better UK.

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From a poster on the BBC.

Looking at the map of how people in the 32 Scottish councils voted, those opposed to independence nearly ended up being dominated by those voters living in a very centralised area of the country based around Glasgow... not unlike the situation the pro-independence supporters complain about when they talk about London.

No Balls, try and drop it. Your gloating is just as pathetic as Mountain Shadows impatience and inability to see beyond the immediate rhetoric of a few MPs. At least MS has at last had the sense to say he's going to bow out for a while. If you don't wish to follow his lead then toning it down a bit would at least make this thread a little more pleasant.

 

There's been some really good points of view put across in this thread today, from both sides of the debate. In some ways though we're maybe beginning to diverge from the thread title 'Scottish Politics', maybe a new thread 'UK Constitutional Change' might be a good idea, if someone wishes to start it. After all I think after the result and the PMs statement today that might be a very interesting discussion.

Its true that Scotland for the time being seems to have come out of this more divided.

Not gloating just pleased that finally we get to see people from the YES campaigns true colours after saying that NO campaign were the only nasty ones. But yes I will drop it now as it seems that the the message has been got across now :-)

Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
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You are nothing if not consistent. You are as graceless in defeat as you were throughout the campaign. Congratulate the victors and be determined to work with them for a better Scotland and a better UK.

For you to call anyone graceless is breathtaking.

What SS posted is where the polling evidence currently points regards Westminster, what was showed up in last Friday's Ipsos MORI Westminster VI poll is what will be coming down the track for Labour if there is a failure to deliver on the promises made. As a quick reminder it had the SNP up 34 seats on 40 and Labour routed to just 16 seats in Scotland.

Edited by skifreak
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Very disappointed today but also accept the result.   I too will be taking a holiday from this thread.  The debate has been mostly good natured.  However the trolling from certain people, in the last week or so, means its time to leave.  

 

If the UK is so better together why the anti Scottish comments?  If you dont like Scotland why come on to a Scottish politics thread?

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SS/Bus etc. It's been an interesting journey but sadly ultimately a sad day for Scotland. I have seen no one smiling in Glasgow today. That paints a picture of a nation that is shell shocked no matter what side you are on. Some people will come to regret this decision greatly. We might never get another in our lifetime. I have been through hell and back and am feeling sick this morning , profound sadness for a nation lost. Its almost like a step back for Scotland because we voted to agree we were not a nation. We had never actually been asked if we were a nation other than at football games and other sport. This is going to sound harsh but I kind of hope England beat us in November. It's no more than the plastic jocks deserve. Someone else said they feel stateless now. That's how I feel lonely and nationless. 45% of us will be feeling this way the others happy being plastic Jocks and North Britons.

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SS/Bus etc. It's been an interesting journey but sadly ultimately a sad day for Scotland. I have seen no one smiling in Glasgow today. That paints a picture of a nation that is shell shocked no matter what side you are on. Some people will come to regret this decision greatly. We might never get another in our lifetime. I have been through hell and back and am feeling sick this morning , profound sadness for a nation lost. Its almost like a step back for Scotland because we voted to agree we were not a nation. We had never actually been asked if we were a nation other than at football games and other sport. This is going to sound harsh but I kind of hope England beat us in November. It's no more than the plastic jocks deserve. Someone else said they feel stateless now. That's how I feel lonely and nationless. 45% of us will be feeling this way the others happy being plastic Jocks and North Britons.

Rubbish, Scotland is a recognized country just like England. Put your violins away. When someone asks you where you are from bet you say you are from Scotland and not North Briton.

Jeez anyone would think a hitleresq type figure was coming along to wipe you off the map.

Get over yourselves, life goes on.

Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
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SS/Bus etc. It's been an interesting journey but sadly ultimately a sad day for Scotland. I have seen no one smiling in Glasgow today. That paints a picture of a nation that is shell shocked no matter what side you are on. Some people will come to regret this decision greatly. We might never get another in our lifetime. I have been through hell and back and am feeling sick this morning , profound sadness for a nation lost. Its almost like a step back for Scotland because we voted to agree we were not a nation. We had never actually been asked if we were a nation other than at football games and other sport. This is going to sound harsh but I kind of hope England beat us in November. It's no more than the plastic jocks deserve. Someone else said they feel stateless now. That's how I feel lonely and nationless. 45% of us will be feeling this way the others happy being plastic Jocks and North Britons.

Oh boo hoo and blub blub. Your attitude characterises so well the deficiencies of the YES campaign. It was a campaign driven by jealousy, bitterness and a feeling of inferiority. True Scots have never doubted that Scotland is a great nation and are confident of their abilities and place in the world. The Scots I knew when I was young were proud to be British and would never have dreamed of blaming the rest of the country for any problems that Scotland had. Try and be that sort of Scot.

PS - Of course Scotland will lose to England in November.

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The title image on the YES Highland Facebook sums it up.

YES Scotland.

We're watching. We're waiting. We're still here.

Westminster has to deliver.

Jeez anyone would think a hitleresq type figure was coming along to wipe you off the map.

John Redwood is arguably scarier.

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Oh boo hoo and blub blub. Your attitude characterises so well the deficiencies of the YES campaign. It was a campaign driven by jealousy, bitterness and a feeling of inferiority. True Scots have never doubted that Scotland is a great nation and are confident of their abilities and place in the world. The Scots I knew when I was young were proud to be British and would never have dreamed of blaming the rest of the country for any problems that Scotland had. Try and be that sort of Scot.

PS - Of course Scotland will lose to England in November.

 

coram, you're as bad as he is with lines which start with "True Scots...." Does that make me a pretend Scot?

 

Going round in circles with this now...it isn't helping any feeling of moving forwards.

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Can somebody just explain these dead union comments (coming only from Yes). Seems to me that your capital disagreed as did Salmonds own constituency.

Also there's so much blame and negativity, grow up people.

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Sorry but a country that votes not to be a country is not a country.

 

I am not giving up but certainly independence is on the back burner. I am instead going to join a local campaign group to help our less fortunate citizens.

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Sorry but a country that votes not to be a country is not a country.

 

I am not giving up but certainly independence is on the back burner. I am instead going to join a local campaign group to help our less fortunate citizens.

I've always perceived Scotland as a separate country. Maybe that was part of the problem, perhaps many Scots just feel that already and feel they can be Scottish and still be in the UK.

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Can somebody just explain these dead union comments (coming only from Yes). Seems to me that your capital disagreed as did Salmonds own constituency.

Also there's so much blame and negativity, grow up people.

Arguably, the most sensible comment anyone's made since yesterday.

Edited by Mrs Trellis
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