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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snow and summer heatwaves.
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon

    So the future of Scotland was denied by those who don't have much future left. Democracy?, sure.

     

    Fair?

    Well if there isn't another for 20 years perhaps you should sit it out as you will be nearing 50?

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I apologise, earlier I said that when Westminster doesn't deliver that there could be no further referendum for a generation, I was wrong, I should have said a lifetime. Don't take my word for, take Senior English ToryMichael Howard's word...

     

    Former Conservative leader Michael Howard says the issue has now been "resolved for a lifetime". "The Better Together campaign has won - and I hope that togetherness will now be the theme of what happens in the discussions that are going to take place on more powers for Scotland and the rebalancing of the United Kingdom."

     

    No voters, you have been duped again, like sheep to the slaughter, scared of your own shadows. If you believe Westminster are going to deliver you are very much mistaken and they won't be offering any further referendum.

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    I apologise, earlier I said that when Westminster doesn't deliver that there could be no further referendum for a generation, I was wrong, I should have said a lifetime. Don't take my word for, take Senior English ToryMichael Howard's word...

     

    Former Conservative leader Michael Howard says the issue has now been "resolved for a lifetime". "The Better Together campaign has won - and I hope that togetherness will now be the theme of what happens in the discussions that are going to take place on more powers for Scotland and the rebalancing of the United Kingdom."

     

    No voters, you have been duped again, like sheep to the slaughter, scared of your own shadows. If you believe Westminster are going to deliver you are very much mistaken and they won't be offering any further referendum.

    My god your getting boring now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Seriously just admit defeat admirably for the time being. Your not doing yourself any favours what so ever. Your embarrassing yourself.

    Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
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    Posted
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, ice, cold
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl

    I apologise, earlier I said that when Westminster doesn't deliver that there could be no further referendum for a generation, I was wrong, I should have said a lifetime. Don't take my word for, take Senior English ToryMichael Howard's word...

     

    Former Conservative leader Michael Howard says the issue has now been "resolved for a lifetime". "

    Oh you can relax - he's over 55 so his lifetime is probably not long...

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    BMW, it'll die down in no time hopefully, in the meantime just either ignore it or stop looking at the places that pish is being spouted. There's always some idiots on any side. I've seen comments prior to the vote advocating sending in the troops to crush Scotland if we dared vote yes, and you can be sure if we had there would have been more similar comments made.

    The reality is, even if all 400k English born voters had voted no (which they didn't), that still leaves 1.5m Scots who voted No. Why blame the former any more than the latter?

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    Posted
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snow and summer heatwaves.
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon

    I apologise, earlier I said that when Westminster doesn't deliver that there could be no further referendum for a generation, I was wrong, I should have said a lifetime. Don't take my word for, take Senior English ToryMichael Howard's word...

     

    Former Conservative leader Michael Howard says the issue has now been "resolved for a lifetime". "The Better Together campaign has won - and I hope that togetherness will now be the theme of what happens in the discussions that are going to take place on more powers for Scotland and the rebalancing of the United Kingdom."

     

    No voters, you have been duped again, like sheep to the slaughter, scared of your own shadows. If you believe Westminster are going to deliver you are very much mistaken and they won't be offering any further referendum.

     

     

    Duped? I think the government would be daft to ignore this all together otherwise it will eventually come round to bite them in the a** even if it is 10 years down the road although the irony of this whole referendum is the English could come out with more reform and improvement than anyone else. :friends:  Although it is long overdue .

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    Posted
  • Location: Alresford, Near Colchester, Essex
  • Weather Preferences: As long as it's not North Sea muck, I'll cope.
  • Location: Alresford, Near Colchester, Essex

    Quit your ranting MS. It's becoming a bit pathetic. What is done is done and we have to move on.

    Let's face it, very big changes are inevitably coming for all of us.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, crisp, calm and sunny
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl

    Sit back and wait. If you're convinced that the Westminster vow is all lies then sit and wait. If we get to the point that we can see it has all been a pack of lies that's when to come back out fighting. In the meantime get behind the more powers idea. I'm going to do this, although I will start pushing and seeking answers if/when they look like they're coming up short. Use this defeat wisely.

     Agree with that CMD.  Similar to what I was trying to say in an earlier post.

     

    They might not be finished, but what do they now stand for?

     

    The SNP exist for independence, this has been rejected at least for another generation when Scotland will have been bled dry. I assume therefore, they will become the party of Devo Max, not quite the same, but still a role to play.

     

    The problem is, even if Scotland returned 55 SNP MP's at the next GE, the Englisg MP's will just go two's up.

     

    To be honest, which party actually speaks for Scotland now?

    No more referendums for another 20 years though, how do you propose we speed of the process when Westminster fails to deliver?, riot and civil strife?

     

    Personally I think there can be another referendum within a far shorter span of years than 20.  It depends upon the triggers and the will of the Scottish people.  One trigger could be the promised devo powers not being honoured.  Another could be an EU referendum or other constitutional issues that are identified. 

     

    I didn’t feel the need to argue with anyone prior to the vote when they advocated for a different outcome to the one I wished for and I’m certainly not going to get drawn into an argument after a long night waiting for the results to come in.

     

    So I’ll say this and then walk out of here until things calm down – your response to my post MS, after I’d been at pains to talk constructively and positively about the way in which this long campaign has been conducted, as well as suggest learning some lessons for the next referendum has annoyed me and I think you need to step away from the computer and take some deep breaths….

    “No more referendums for another 20 years though, how do you propose we speed of the process when Westminster fails to deliver?, riot and civil strife?â€

     

    No, I would never propose we speed the process of another referendum through riot and civil strife nor can I see the Scotland I lived in and grew to love and respect ever stooping to those levels.     

    Edited by Soaring Hawk
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Sorry I'm annoying folk. All I've done is quote a journalist who says Devo Max is not on the table and a very Senior Tory who says no more referendum in a lifetime. This on top of other Tory MP's and the UKIP leader stating they want the Barnett formula reduced for Scotland.

     

    I'm still waiting to here from senior Government figures that Devo Max is on the table, that Scotland can have another referendum whenever it likes and that the Barnett formula is guaranteed to stay the same.

     

    I will contunue to broadcast that the No voters have been duped until I hear otherwise.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    What I've found very interesting recently is the psychology behind all of this. I read BigInnes' post and the part about the English born vote as a plausible explanation for the NO vote (it more or less works statistically), you took it as him blaming the English.

    Agreed.. interesting psychology. Yes I did interpret that as blaming the English but that's probably because I've been over exposed to the anti-Westminster rhetoric. I was also somewhat disgruntled by the over 55 blame. which just as statistically could have caused the No vote to win.

     

    . just goes to prove that you make statistics tell you anything but prove absolutely nothing! :) 

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Agreed.. interesting psychology. Yes I did interpret that as blaming the English but that's probably because I've been over exposed to the anti-Westminster rhetoric. I was also somewhat disgruntled by the over 55 blame. which just as statistically could have caused the No vote to win.

     

    . just goes to prove that you make statistics tell you anything but prove absolutely nothing! :) 

     

     

    One man's blame is another man's reason...I'm sure someone else has put this more eloquently but I can't remember what the saying is.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Actually, you'l be pleased to know I will take my leave of this thread for now. I will pop back in now and again when the Westminster elite fail to deliver

     

    I leave you with this from Wings, which pretty much sums up the depth of feeling...

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-country-that-wasnt/#more-61848

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    Posted
  • Location: The Highlands of West Fife. 650ft ASL. Nr Knockhill Racing Circuit
  • Weather Preferences: Hot N' Sunny / Cauld N' Snawy
  • Location: The Highlands of West Fife. 650ft ASL. Nr Knockhill Racing Circuit

    Oh dear...Not a very robust argument to blame the English...

    As for others blaming the over 55's.. as someone who is 57 I find that very ageist.

    Sorry Kar, but this part was intended as an observation and a view as to a likely voting trend which might have made the difference?

    I am sure that my wording did not apportion Blame!

    Big Innes

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

        This  referendum has been a bitter disappointment for some, a huge relief for others but most of all, it managed to strike fear through the very bowels of Westminster.   We as a people cannot be accused of sitting on our laurels and for that part at least I am proud.   The passage of time alone will evidence if Scotland did or did not return the correct decision.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

     

    I will contunue to broadcast that the No voters have been duped until I hear otherwise.

     

    Using CMD ideas about psychology you can turn that on it's head by saying that the No's weren't duped but failed to be persuaded by the YES.

     

    Someone on the radio this morning said that the Yes campaign was by far the most energetic and positive but it still failed to persuade the majority and with record breaking turn-outs voter apathy cannot be blamed.

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    Posted
  • Location: Paris suburbs
  • Location: Paris suburbs

    No voters, you have been duped again, like sheep to the slaughter, scared of your own shadows. If you believe Westminster are going to deliver you are very much mistaken and they won't be offering any further referendum.

    The exit poll posted on the previous page tells us that the No vote was decided a long time ago - the offering of new powers didn't really convince many. I want new constitutional powers, especially now that they've been promised, but don't think that No voters have voted No because of these promises.

    Whether there's another referendum depends on the demand for a referendum. It could well be that there won't be another one for a lifetime!

    Edited by Harve
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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Sorry Kar, but this part was intended as an observation and a view as to a likely voting trend which might have made the difference?

    I am sure that my wording did not apportion Blame!

    Big Innes

     

    No problem... as I explained earlier its been the constant wall of anti-Westminster rhetoric that has numbed my brain!  :wink:

     

    Hopefully all the UNION will change for the better now because after yesterday I truly believe things cannot ever be the same.

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    I leave you with this from Wings, which pretty much sums up the depth of feeling...

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-country-that-wasnt/#more-61848

     

    While I can understand disappointment of those who desperately wanted independence, the self-pity and dejection for the future is misplaced - a golden future was never going to be magically handed on a plate, it will be up to them to build it, independent or not.

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    Actually, you'l be pleased to know I will take my leave of this thread for now. I will pop back in now and again when the Westminster elite fail to deliver

     

    I leave you with this from Wings, which pretty much sums up the depth of feeling...

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-country-that-wasnt/#more-61848

    Crikey I just took a look at Wings Over Scotland twittter account. What a load of tripe being posted on there currently, tweets blaming old people etc etc. Just more sore losers IMO.

    Basically according to WOS any Scot that voted no has no bottle. Sure they would love to know what WOS think of them. People like these only serve to split Scotland rather than bring them together.

    Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
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    Posted
  • Location: Harrow (Fulwood), London, (Sheffield)
  • Location: Harrow (Fulwood), London, (Sheffield)

    Despite the result it seems significant change is coming to Scotland (more powers) and hopefully the rest of the UK. Going to be a testing time for Cameron. On the one hand hes going to have to address the demand for new powers from Scotland, however the English, and no doubt the other nations of the UK, are not going to sit idly by as Scotland gets handed power after power while the rest get nothing. I noticed he said in his speech the English must be now heard too, although im not sure how this is going to be achieved. Interesting times ahead

    Edited by Mark Bayley
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    The presumption that 'next time' Scotland may vote "Yes" because some of today's older voters, who voted "No", will no longer be with us then, is a little presumptious imo.

     

    As people get older they (we) tend to get more cautious - a little concerned of losing what we've carefully built up over a lifetime's work, etc. Yes, probably more risk averse.

    So, who's to say that some of those currently in the 35-50 age bracket, for example, who voted "Yes" yesterday, by the next time, may actually vote "No" because of the reasons i've outlined above?

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Despite the result it seems significant change is coming to Scotland (more powers) and hopefully the rest of the UK. Going to be a testing time for Cameron. On the one hand hes going to have to address the demand for new powers from Scotland, however the English, and no doubt the other nations of the UK, are not going to sit idly by as Scotlands gets handed power after power while the rest get nothing. I noticed he said in his speech the English must be now heard too, although im not sure how this is going to be achieved. Interesting times ahead

    And this engagement from the English (and Welsh) depends on us becoming more energised politically again, because the last couple of General Elections have shown 'us' to be pretty apathetic.

    So, first the English and Welsh MPs will need to show a lot more than they have in recent years that they DO actually listen.

     

    Engage us first, and then convince us to wake from our apathetic slumber.

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    Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

    If Westminster don't deliver on ALL of their promises within the year. They should have another vote. I can see Westminster dithering already.

    Edited by stewfox
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    45% was both an amazing achievement, but a disappointment.

     

    Just have to wait a bit longer.

     

    Time for a polling holiday.

     

    The next fun comes in 2015. If polls continue as they are, Labour will die at Westminster level in Scotland. I wonder how much they'll value the union then.

     

    The Yes majority across Glasgow tells you what's waiting for them as thanks for their pact with the Tories.

     

    A UK divided like never before, with the union dying each day passes.

     

    How the vote went:

     

     

    post-9421-0-96084500-1411128759_thumb.jp

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    45% was both an amazing achievement, but a disappointment.

     

    Just have to wait a bit longer.

     

    Time for a polling holiday.

     

    The next fun comes in 2015. If polls continue as they are, Labour will die at Westminster level in Scotland. I wonder how much they'll value the union then.

     

    The Yes majority across Glasgow tells you what's waiting for them as thanks for their pact with the Tories.

     

    A UK divided like never before, with the union dying each day passes.

     

    How the vote went:

    It seems that only Scotland has become more divided. Lot of (not all) YES campaigners hurling insults at everyone that didn't vote YES.

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