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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: The Highlands of West Fife. 650ft ASL. Nr Knockhill Racing Circuit
  • Weather Preferences: Hot N' Sunny / Cauld N' Snawy
  • Location: The Highlands of West Fife. 650ft ASL. Nr Knockhill Racing Circuit

    As passionate YES Voter I am gutted this morning!

    Most of us will accept that the small majority have spoken with a No Vote and we therefore remain as part of the UK.

    An historic turnout for this Monumental Decision and interestingly the final numbers equate to approximately 1.6 Million as Yes & 1.9 Million as No.

    If you therefore take that approximately 400,000 English Born people now live and work in Scotland then you can maybe conclude that this was the difference on the day and that you might expect English born voters to want to retain the union?

    So we now wait and see what becomes of Gordy Broon, Alistair Darling & the Three Amigos Pledges for more Devolved Powers etc. .

    If they do not deliver anything of any substance by the patronising Dates which Gordy Broon has set out during his late intervention to help persuade us all to keep the Union, then what stance if any will the No Voters take?

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    I'll tell you what'll be a real clusterthingy is if the SNP win well at the next election. There is a lot of chat this morning about the SNP being "finished".

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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, crisp, calm and sunny
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl

    Ah, but the Westminster Governement have only said they are going to act. Some on here seem to think that Westminster politicians are trustworthy.

     

    Many English MP's have already said on your bike. They already feel Scotland are subsidy junkies.

     

    Morning MS, I wonder if you missed the point I was making?  Further down my post I also said...

     

    "Take stock, learn what is needed if the promises aren’t delivered.  And if they aren’t delivered independence will be there for the taking."

     

    Personally I have more HOPE than EXPECTATION that promises will be honoured....hence that probably too subtle 'be prepared' if the Westminster Government reneges on its referendum promises. 

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    The whole currency union debate was needless, pointless and simply muddied the waters. What was the theory behind it? How can a country be independent without its own currency? It should have been a clear cut "we'll have our own currency" and that's that.

     

    With momentum gathering it certainly seemed like they dropped the ball at this point.

     

     

     

    Many English MP's have already said on your bike. They already feel Scotland are subsidy junkies.

     

    It's probably viewed more like this -

    The Barnett Formula explained - robbing idle northern scroungers to lavish extra expenditure on féckless benefit guzzling Scots

     

     

    (féckless is a profanity apparently!)

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I'll tell you what'll be a real clusterthingy is if the SNP win well at the next election. There is a lot of chat this morning about the SNP being "finished".

    They might not be finished, but what do they now stand for?

     

    The SNP exist for independence, this has been rejected at least for another generation when Scotland will have been bled dry. I assume therefore, they will become the party of Devo Max, not quite the same, but still a role to play.

     

    The problem is, even if Scotland returned 55 SNP MP's at the next GE, the Englisg MP's will just go two's up.

     

    To be honest, which party actually speaks for Scotland now?

    Morning MS, I wonder if you missed the point I was making?  Further down my post I also said...

     

    "Take stock, learn what is needed if the promises aren’t delivered.  And if they aren’t delivered independence will be there for the taking."

     

    Personally I have more HOPE than EXPECTATION that promises will be honoured....hence that probably too subtle 'be prepared' if the Westminster Government reneges on its referendum promises. 

    No more referendums for another 20 years though, how do you propose we speed of the process when Westminster fails to deliver?, riot and civil strife?

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    Posted
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Hot sunny summers, cold snowy winters
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL

    Mountain Shadow, you need to log out, go for a walk or anything for a break. You are getting yourself worked up and heading towards a dark path. Take stock of what some of your fellow YES supporters have posted this morning and work to improve the system and not try to create more division and hostility

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    They might not be finished, but what do they now stand for?

     

    The SNP exist for independence, this has been rejected at least for another generation when Scotland will have been bled dry. I assume therefore, they will become the party of Devo Max, not quite the same, but still a role to play.

     

    The problem is, even if Scotland returned 55 SNP MP's at the next GE, the Englisg MP's will just go two's up.

     

    To be honest, which party actually speaks for Scotland now?

    No more referendums for another 20 years though, how do you propose we speed of the process when Westminster fails to deliver?, riot and civil strife?

     

    I don't know where you get this "No more referendums for another 20 years". There are plenty of hurdles coming up which could trigger a desire for another referendum. As people like Weather-History have pointed out, the answering of the West Lothian Question could throw up constitutional issues. There's the possibility of a EU in/out referendum, what would happen if the rUK votes NO on that one but Scotland votes YES? So we could back here within 5 years...or never again. Only time will tell.

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    Posted
  • Location: Aberdeen
  • Location: Aberdeen

    So the future of Scotland was denied by those who don't have much future left. Democracy?, sure.

     

    Fair?

    Those data as far as I am aware were from a poll NOT the overall voting statistics.

    As for "denied by those who don't have much of a future left"? That is just rather unpleasant. None of us know how much of a future we have left and all are entitled to vote.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    the PM came out of Downing Street to announce that the changes promised in the last few days would be accompanied by measures to deal with the "English question".

    The hugely controversial issue of whether Scottish and Welsh MPs should continue to be able to vote on solely English matters - English votes for English laws, or the age-old "West Lothian question" - would be dealt with at the same time.

    This should have been dealt with long before now and it'll be interesting to see what they propose. I've not looked at it closely but not sure I see an easy solution.

    As for the electoral chances of the SNP in the future, I'm not sure they'll be damaged too much by this. As my wife said again tjis morning "I like Alex Salmond and I like the SNP" but independence was a vote too far for her personally. Will be interesting for the upcoming GE, if it looks like Labour are unlikely to win, how will Scotland vote? Vote Labour again in hope, or SNP for 'protection'?

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    Posted
  • Location: Dundee
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, thunderstorms, gales. All extremes except humidity.
  • Location: Dundee

    Morning MS, I wonder if you missed the point I was making?  Further down my post I also said...

     

    "Take stock, learn what is needed if the promises aren’t delivered.  And if they aren’t delivered independence will be there for the taking."

     

    Personally I have more HOPE than EXPECTATION that promises will be honoured....hence that probably too subtle 'be prepared' if the Westminster Government reneges on its referendum promises. 

    i know quite a few No voters who have stated that if the promises are not kept they will switch to SNP. I expect that if enough do the "generation"gap until the next referendum will be a bit shorter than currently expected. Personally I expect the Barnett formula to stay and at least some new powers devolved in quick time. In this case no recriminations please and let all work together to make Scotland and the rest of the UK a better place.
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    Posted
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)

    surely this whole referendum should raise the question of a referendum for English independence..this way the yes camp should back this and then you could gain independence by default if England was allowed to vote on its right to be an independent nation.

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    Posted
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, ice, cold
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl

    Some are saddened by the result, some are not.

    What I am saddened about is the number of my friends on Facebook who are sending PMs around to let their close friends know they're closing their FB accounts for a fortnight or so because of the abuse they are getting. 

    This saddens me. 

    Reading comments here and on other forums, I am - seriously and not making a point for the sake of drama - starting to feel relieved that my English-sounding voice and I are not in Scotland this weekend. Yesterday, at 6pm, I light-heartedly went off for my train with a Scotland rugby shirt and NO sticker - today I don't think I'd dare go out in public in Scotland with anything identifying me as having voted NO. The next few days feel frightening, because of the anger and blame being directed at me, personally. cf comments today here about "English-born" people making up the entire NO vote, or me being, what was it, selfish gullible and cringe-worthy...

    I know those are just words, but they're reminding me of arriving as a ten-year-old little girl in 1979, being chased by big boys who terrified me as they hit my shoulders with sticks and yelled "1314! 1314!", having chewing-gum rubbed into the roots of my waist-length hair so I had bald patches where it was cut out, having my lunchbox taken off me every morning and filled with woodlice or spit or worse, being shoved and pushed, having the only new school uniform I ever had ripped and torn and having to lie to my parents about it for fear of more aggression.

    A lot for a bewildered little girl in P7 to deal with. 

    And now I can see and hear it all again.

    YOU ARE REPRESENTING SCOTLAND - the world can read this discussion. And comments elsewhere. Is this how you want the world to think of Scots? Sneering, aggressive, bitter, bully-boys?

    You're right, it would be nice if I were gracious in victory - only all I can see is your faces twisted with hatred and violence. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    As my wife said again tjis morning "I like Alex Salmond and I like the SNP" but independence was a vote too far.

    But SNP stand on the platform of Indepdence? What Scotland appears to be missing then is a party of Devo Max.

     

    That will never be the Tory's, Lib Dems or Labour so the SNP need to very quickly fill that gap.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    YOU ARE REPRESENTING SCOTLAND - the world can read this discussion. And comments elsewhere. Is this how you want the world to think of Scots? Sneering, aggressive, bitter, bully-boys?

    You're right, it would be nice if I were gracious in victory - only all I can see is your faces twisted with hatred and violence. 

     

    C'mon BMW, "all" you "can see"? Steady on, some of us aren't like that at all.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Some are saddened by the result, some are not.

    What I am saddened about is the number of my friends on Facebook who are sending PMs around to let their close friends know they're closing their FB accounts for a fortnight or so because of the abuse they are getting. 

    This saddens me. 

    Reading comments here and on other forums, I am - seriously and not making a point for the sake of drama - starting to feel relieved that my English-sounding voice and I are not in Scotland this weekend. Yesterday, at 6pm, I light-heartedly went off for my train with a Scotland rugby shirt and NO sticker - today I don't think I'd dare go out in public in Scotland with anything identifying me as having voted NO. The next few days feel frightening, because of the anger and blame being directed at me, personally. cf comments today here about "English-born" people making up the entire NO vote, or me being, what was it, selfish gullible and cringe-worthy...

    I know those are just words, but they're reminding me of arriving as a ten-year-old little girl in 1979, being chased by big boys who terrified me as they hit my shoulders with sticks and yelled "1314! 1314!", having chewing-gum rubbed into the roots of my waist-length hair so I had bald patches where it was cut out, having my lunchbox taken off me every morning and filled with woodlice or spit or worse, being shoved and pushed, having the only new school uniform I ever had ripped and torn and having to lie to my parents about it for fear of more aggression.

    A lot for a bewildered little girl in P7 to deal with. 

    And now I can see and hear it all again.

    YOU ARE REPRESENTING SCOTLAND - the world can read this discussion. And comments elsewhere. Is this how you want the world to think of Scots? Sneering, aggressive, bitter, bully-boys?

    You're right, it would be nice if I were gracious in victory - only all I can see is your faces twisted with hatred and violence. 

    What a load of rubbish. The majority of the people who voted No were Scottish not English. If anyone attacked you because of your accent and how you voted, then they as individuals are to be deplored.

     

    Anyhow, you live in the No capital of Scotland, so you'll be perfectly safe.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    approximately 1.6 Million as Yes & 1.9 Million as No.If you therefore take that approximately 400,000 English Born people now live and work in Scotland then you can maybe conclude that this was the difference on the day and that you might expect English born voters to want to retain the union?

    Oh dear...Not a very robust argument to blame the English...

    As for others blaming the over 55's.. as someone who is 57 I find that very ageist.

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Here is some more information from the exit poll.

     

    A really insightful examination of values across the electorate on either side of the debate.

     

    The one I thought was really interesting was the conviction of No vote, with many having cemented their vote regardless of campaign more than 1 year ago. This as a trade off with Yes folks confirming to Yes within the last year.

     

    Also some truths around the emotive areas and key policy areas. Currency and Pensions ( as illustrated by many on here) real deciders for No. versus a massive dissaffection for Westminster for Yes along with NHS, which interestingly came third for No also.

     

    Pretty much as illustrated within the arguments and predictions on this thread. 

     

    post-7292-0-12077700-1411122495_thumb.jp

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    a recent tweet from Paddy Power:-

    "Familiar feeling this morning as Scotland again fail to make it out of the group."

    LOL

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Oh dear...Not a very robust argument to blame the English...

    As for others blaming the over 55's.. as someone who is 57 I find that very ageist.

     

    What I've found very interesting recently is the psychology behind all of this. I read BigInnes' post and the part about the English born vote as a plausible explanation for the NO vote (it more or less works statistically), you took it as him blaming the English.

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    Posted
  • Location: inter drumlin South Tyrone Blackwater river valley surrounded by the last last ice age...
  • Weather Preferences: jack frost
  • Location: inter drumlin South Tyrone Blackwater river valley surrounded by the last last ice age...

    I am sorry that too few had the courage to take the leap into a new future. Anyway .. enjoy your 'safe' tomorrows !

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    Posted
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh

    i know quite a few No voters who have stated that if the promises are not kept they will switch to SNP. I expect that if enough do the "generation"gap until the next referendum will be a bit shorter than currently expected. Personally I expect the Barnett formula to stay and at least some new powers devolved in quick time. In this case no recriminations please and let all work together to make Scotland and the rest of the UK a better place.

     

    This. Exactly this

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    Posted
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, ice, cold
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl

    What I've found very interesting recently is the psychology behind all of this. I read BigInnes' post and the part about the English born vote as a plausible explanation for the NO vote (it more or less works statistically), you took it as him blaming the English.

     

    As did I - maybe because of the widespread comments I've read elsewhere this morning about how Scotland would be "free" if only the English [epithet of choice] were kicked out… and I do *know* that there are only a small number of bigots in Scotland; it's just that I think I've met them ALL in my 35 years living in Scotland. 

    I was so close a week ago to voting YES - I spent months on the verge of voting YES, and it was only in the last days that I finally decided on NO for a range of reasons, mainly to do with gaps in policies. 

    I'm so glad now that I didn't, as all the old name-calling starts up. I know it isn't all of you - this discussion and the Kilted thread are the kinds of things that made me almost vote YES. But there's a fair amount of it this morning, they've all come out to have a go at everyone who isn't 100% Scots, born and bred and preferably with tartan blood. 

    I'm just so sick of it and I thought with such an inclusive, positive YES campaign maybe it had ifnally gone (with the exception of the UVF unspeakables and their ilk)…. but no, this morning they're all over the internet - people posting hateful vitriol about how if you didn't vote YES then you should bleep off and live in England with the rest of the oh you get the idea...

    It's jsut so horrible, after such an inclusive couple of years… but it never went away. I was wrong. 

    Still - looking on the bright side, at least I'm under 55 so not being blamed for voting whilst so ancient I'm about to pop my clogs! :)

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    Posted
  • Location: Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, Thunderstorms, Warm summer evenings
  • Location: Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland

    Not the outcome I hoped for but at the end of the day we are a democracy and I personally accept the result :)

    Now it's time to come together as one, not just in Scotland, but also with our cousins in other parts of the UK so we can work towards creating a fairer society that we can all be proud of. Well done to all those who went out and voted, it was a great day for democracy!

    Edited by Mesosphere
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    Posted
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)

    What I've found very interesting recently is the psychology behind all of this. I read BigInnes' post and the part about the English born vote as a plausible explanation for the NO vote (it more or less works statistically), you took it as him blaming the English.

    what about regions of Scotland that voted No where probably very few English people live?

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    Posted
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh

    what about regions of Scotland that voted No where probably very few English people live?

     

    Or all the other non-scottish voters like the Poles or Asians?

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