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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    Does that also apply if it's a narrow YES? i.e., will there be another referendum if there is demand?

    Of course not - if tossing a coin and heads is the Independence vote then if it lands on tails then the Indepepence call will continue to call for the coin to be continue to be tossed. Until it lands on heads that is, and then the coin tossing stops.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Yes… 

    Two things that will be different for me: I'm moving to live in England. And I've really had to soulsearch about who the heck I am and what I believe to be true and important. 

    And it's made me determiend never again to sit back complaining for twenty years while my country moves further and further to the right until it reaches the situation it is now, where over TWO THOUSAND russian "super-rich" live in London paying minimal taxes because the government contains over twenty millionaires who like to be surrounded by their own kind...

    I'm never stepping back and washing my hands of it all again. If I want a country with social justice, fairness, equality of opportunity, and a widespread belief that care and support and *enough* [income/ healthcare/ whatever] are there for all according to their needs and from all according to their abilities, then it's MY DUTY to work to gain and protect those things. Wherever I live. Whatever the country is called. 

    WTG! :clapping:

     

    The Westminster cartel is broken whatever the result - lets ALL keep it that way.

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    Posted
  • Location: Huddersfield, 145m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Lots of snow, lots of hot sun
  • Location: Huddersfield, 145m ASL

    Whilst some of this is OTT and doesn't help his arguments, there's still a lot of truth in what is said:

     

    http://dicmortimer.com/2014/09/17/scotland-the-brave/

     

    I particularly like this bit:

     

    "If Scotland votes Yes it will be a vote to establish a Scottish democracy at long last and a vote to end the humiliation of being run, invariably badly at that, by England. The ‘Better Together’ campaign should be more accurately named: perhaps ‘Better Tethered’. Notwithstanding the last-minute panic by the British Nationalists (all nationalisms are wrong to them – except their own), in which they’re suddenly throwing promises of goodies galore at Scotland, their true intentions towards Scotland have been continually revealed throughout the campaign, with dire warnings of how horrible and obstructive England is going to be if Scotland has the effrontery to quit the abusive relationship, as though it is out of the question for two neighbouring and intimately connected nations to co-exist harmoniously, like say Norway and Sweden or Spain and Portugal. When they all chorus that Scotland would not be allowed to keep the Pound, they inadvertently admit that the ‘Union’ is a fiction. If it were a true marriage of equal partners, and if the UK were truly ‘together’, then the Pound belongs as much to Scotland as it does to England and it is no more in England’s power to deny it to Scotland than it would be the other way round. Every time the No campaigners are cornered they reveal this imperialist attitude to Scotland and concede that the UK is actually just England with some Celtic knobs on."

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    Posted
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent

    Don't forget, whether it's a No or not, there is the chance that we'll have to endure an EU referendum in a couple of years. I doubt it will stir the same passion as an independence referendum, but those of us who believe in progressive, inclusive politics are going to have to fight pretty damned hard in that. So if it is a No, I would guess 2019/20 would be the very earliest.

    Incidentally, if it's a Yes, will we have to change the name of our islands again to "The British, Irish & Scottish Isles", so that some more sensitive souls aren't offended by a geographical name?

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    Re the Nazi salute photo. How do we know that this is a group of no voters? and not just some random photo taken at say a rangers v celtic match from donkeys years ago?

    Also i don't see the point of posting photos like this as quite obviously if this photo is indeed a group of no voters it doesn't represent the majority of no voters does it?

    I am sure there are a few pieces of scum from the yes side that spout hatred and racism towards the English and there fellow Scots on the no side, we have pretty much had it on here on occasion, But i don't see anyone posting comments and pics up of anyone from the yes side behaving badly.

    it just smacks of more dirty tricks even though the yes side claim day after day hour after hour that they play it clean and honest. Yeah alright we believe you. At the end of the day the yes and no side are as bad as each other and there is no point in trying to pretend it's any different.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Does that also apply if it's a narrow YES? i.e., will there be another referendum if there is demand?

     

    Entirely possible that there could be if Scots vote for a party in a Scottish Election that includes a promise of a 'vote to rejoin the UK'. Of course in that case there could be no denying that the UK would also have to have a vote to decide whether to let Scotland rejoin (unless of course Westminster just allow/deny it without putting it to the voters).

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Re the Nazi salute photo. How do we know that this is a group of no voters? and not just some random photo taken at say a rangers v celtic match from donkeys years ago?

    Also i don't see the point of posting photos like this as quite obviously if this photo is indeed a group of no voters it doesn't represent the majority of no voters does it?

    I am sure there are a few pieces of scum from the yes side that spout hatred and racism towards the English and there fellow Scots on the no side, we have pretty much had it on here on occasion, But i don't see anyone posting comments and pics up of anyone from the yes side behaving badly.

    it just smacks of more dirty tricks even though the yes side claim day after day hour after hour that they play it clean and honest. Yeah alright we believe you. At the end of the day the yes and no side are as bad as each other and there is no point in trying to pretend it's any different.

     

    See a few pages back for similar photo with them holding "NO" posters. One of the guys appears to be in both pics, it's a very similar person with a very similar looking "wave". If anyone wants to post up pics of YES supporters giving Nazi salutes, or showing/spouting hatred and racism then please, go ahead. No one's stopping anyone in here doing anything. My main point was against those who would have us believe in Daily Mail headlines of the "nationalist hate mob" while all BT supporters are jolly spiffing souls.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    The desire for a YES vote should in theory increase over time, given the 65+ age group is so strongly against it. Unfortunately they will have to start popping off the mortal coil at some point.

     

    Given the closeness of the vote I'm not sure the vote really settles that much either result? I very much doubt that any YES voters will see a NO vote and think "Ah well, that's it. UK all the way now", similarly a YES vote won't have the same affect on the NO camp. Very interesting times ahead.

    If that were true the pensioner dependent Tories would not have power now. Peoples attitudes often correlate to their circumstances and at 60 years most probably won't have much desire for change given that they themselves probably won't enjoy the fruits of that decision.

    In addition, a large factor in this referendum is the left wanting to escape right wing England. Social attitude surveys actually suggest that todays generation is already more classically liberal than social Democrat in attitude and that's before they've even started to be bent over by the tax man.

    I agree that a second referendum will occur in 2021 or 2026 (provided economic circumstances are poor enough to give the SNP another large victory). I can't see the Yes campaign winning though, they've been near perfect this time and not won, the NO camp will surely learn their lesson.

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    Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    See a few pages back for similar photo with them holding "NO" posters. One of the guys appears to be in both pics, it's a very similar person with a very similar looking "wave". If anyone wants to post up pics of YES supporters giving Nazi salutes, or showing/spouting hatred and racism then please, go ahead. No one's stopping anyone in here doing anything. My main point was against those who would have us believe in Daily Mail headlines of the "nationalist hate mob" while all BT supporters are jolly spiffing souls.

    I think it would be a good idea to provide a link to where you got the photo from.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, crisp, calm and sunny
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl

    Yes… 

    Two things that will be different for me: I'm moving to live in England. And I've really had to soulsearch about who the heck I am and what I believe to be true and important. 

    And it's made me determiend never again to sit back complaining for twenty years while my country moves further and further to the right until it reaches the situation it is now, where over TWO THOUSAND russian "super-rich" live in London paying minimal taxes because the government contains over twenty millionaires who like to be surrounded by their own kind...

    I'm never stepping back and washing my hands of it all again. If I want a country with social justice, fairness, equality of opportunity, and a widespread belief that care and support and *enough* [income/ healthcare/ whatever] are there for all according to their needs and from all according to their abilities, then it's MY DUTY to work to gain and protect those things. Wherever I live. Whatever the country is called. 

     

    Go that girl...!  Couldn't have said it better myself.  Interestingly I moved (back) to England nearly 18 months ago and although the referendum debate had been alive and healthy before my return, it was just as much the actual experience of living and working in a less right leaning country, with a more defined sense of national identity and national pride, the 'open door' rather than drawbridge attitude that prevails in England, the differences in the way health, mental health (both my professional areas) and social services are delivered and the ability to hold your Members of the Scottish Parliament more accountable, that had awoken my political interests and ire and caused my own internal debate about what I believe to be true and important.  Living in Scotland has, quite literally, changed all sorts of things for me and although I'd be back in a heartbeat if all my children* were a bit more settled and sorted, until and if that time comes, I'm far different 'down south' than I used to be. 

     

    Scotland is more than capable of governing itself, in my opinion !!

     

    * made it sound as I though I have a whole tribe of them....

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    I think it would be a good idea to provide a link to where you got the photo from.

     

    From a friend's Facebook account, so no. Will try and find an open copy :)

     

    OK, here's a twitter link to the previous one:

     

    https://twitter.com/Roundmabit/media

     

    In the second photo you can see one of the "Vote No" signs being held by a guy towards the left of the pic. You can't see the whole thing but it's defo a Vote No effort.

    Edited by CatchMyDrift
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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    From a friend's Facebook account, so no. Will try and find an open copy :)

    Yeah and he got it from a mate of mate who got it from a mate of a mate, must be real then obviously lol.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    I think it would be a good idea to provide a link to where you got the photo from.

    With time and date stamp please, just to nail the lie that this is a fake photo or a Rangers/Celtic leftover from previous years.

     

    I know first hand how evil the bigots and the Union (capital U) bully boys can be, I lived in N. Ireland for 3 years. Not that the IRA and Co. are saints either. Leave Irish politics out of Scotland

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    With time and date stamp please, just to nail the lie that this is a fake photo or a Rangers/Celtic leftover from previous years.

     

    I know first hand how evil the bigots and the Union (capital U) bully boys can be, I lived in N. Ireland for 3 years. Not that the IRA and Co. are saints either. Leave Irish politics out of Scotland

    It doesn't matter if it is real as it doesn't represent the majority. there are nasty people in all walks of life.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Here's more NO voters who are so scared and intimidated by the YES campaign that they've resorted to making Nazi salutes:

     

    10450836_771206272924888_888399167059083

    Extreme left center - appears to be a purple NO banner Could have been p-shopped in but don't think so

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    Posted
  • Location: Stockport
  • Location: Stockport

    See a few pages back for similar photo with them holding "NO" posters. One of the guys appears to be in both pics, it's a very similar person with a very similar looking "wave". If anyone wants to post up pics of YES supporters giving Nazi salutes, or showing/spouting hatred and racism then please, go ahead. No one's stopping anyone in here doing anything. My main point was against those who would have us believe in Daily Mail headlines of the "nationalist hate mob" while all BT supporters are jolly spiffing souls.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-polling-station-graffiti-sparks-accusations-of-voter-intimidation-during-referendum-vote-9741015.html

    No nazi salutes, but a threat nonetheless.

    Is it not just common sense to assume that both "sides" has it's share of nutters?

    Shouldn't the merit of both sides be measured by the good conduct of the majority, rather than the bad conduct of a small minority?

    Edited by March Blizzard
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    It doesn't matter if it is real as it doesn't represent the majority. there are nasty people in all walks of life.

    It represents a small facet that the pro union coalition of Lib/Lab/Con/UKIP (small u) seem happy to be associated with in their desperate attempt to get support.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    It doesn't matter if it is real as it doesn't represent the majority. there are nasty people in all walks of life.

     

    Again, my point was that it isn't all the Daily Mail version of all YES voters are a hate mob but NO voters are all lovely people. That was it...either I've been taken drugs or I've imagined posts I've made saying there's been below the belt stuff from both sides. A minority though.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Again, my point was that it isn't all the Daily Mail version of all YES voters are a hate mob but NO voters are all lovely people. That was it...either I've been taken drugs or I've imagined posts I've made saying there's been below the belt stuff from both sides. A minority though.

    Agreed. This ref is a democratic process and there is no place in it for threats, intimidation or blackmail from whatever quarter, (or half, or whatever).

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    It represents a small facet that the pro union coalition of Lib/Lab/Con/UKIP (small u) seem happy to be associated with in their desperate attempt to get support.

    Really!!!! You can't stop nutters from being in the crowd, have you seen the yes graffiti on the picture above?, does that mean that Alex Salmond is knowingly happy to be associated with it? NO of course it doesn't. You seem desperate to make something out of nothing, but if it helps the yes cause then anything goes doesn't it?

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    Again, my point was that it isn't all the Daily Mail version of all YES voters are a hate mob but NO voters are all lovely people. That was it...either I've been taken drugs or I've imagined posts I've made saying there's been below the belt stuff from both sides. A minority though.

    Really you worry about what the Daily Mail says? LOL

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Really!!!! You can't stop nutters from being in the crowd, have you seen the yes graffiti on the picture above?, does that mean that Alex Salmond is knowingly happy to be associated with it? NO of course it doesn't. You seem desperate to make something out of nothing, but if it helps the yes cause then anything goes doesn't it?

    If the pic is genuine then it doesn't look like just some nutters in the crowd. It looks like TWO sides of the same bad coin prepared for a square go with police lines keeping them apart.

     

    There is no place for any of it

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    Posted
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport
  • Location: Live Thame (Oxfordshire), Work Heathrow Airport

    If the pic is genuine then it doesn't look like just some nutters in the crowd. It looks like TWO sides of the same bad coin prepared for a square go with police lines keeping them apart.

     

    There is no place for any of it

    So if the TWO sides go at each other then that makes them as bad as each other, but your just focusing on the no side. Talk about confusing. It would be a shame if it did end up in a big punch up as it would just make the Scots a laughing stock around the world.

    Edited by No Balls Like Snow Balls
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Really you worry about what the Daily Mail says? LOL

     

    I was using that as an example. There's a very strong thread from the NO campaign & voters that there is widespread nationalist hate mob while NO voters are all innocent and lovely. As I keep saying there has been fault on both sides, thankfully it's a minority.

     

    It's called defending yourself against lies NBLSB, it's not furthering our cause at all. Do you actually understand what it feels like to be labelled as being part of a hate mob?

    So if the TWO sides go at each other then that makes them as bad as each other, but your just focusing on the no side. Talk about confusing. It would be a shame if it did end up in a big punch up as it would just make the Scots a laughing stock around the world.

     

    My understanding is that this group were corralled down a side street at George Square while the YES supporters were having a party on the square. This will, of course, be "all lies" according to you...but hey ho.

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