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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Not to forget that today the really important issue will be settled.

     

    Scotland's Really Big Vote: Can Women Join St. Andrews Golf Club?

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
  • Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

    This is going to be my first vote - 16th birthday was on September 9th :p

     

    I'll definitely be voting YES! The chance to build a fairer and more equal society, without the corrupt and elitist Westminster is just something that can't be missed. The majority of Scottish people have different political views than the majority of English people and we hardly ever get the government we vote for. Scotland can become a small, progressive nation, where Scottish people have a more equal start in life and a much bigger say in what happens with their country. If we mess things up, it will be on US and we can do it again, better. If the UK messes things up (NHS privatisation, UKIP/Tory coalition), Scottish people have very little they can do. The mistake the No campaign is making is that most Yes voters don't really want to leave English people - they want to escape the tyranny of Westminster. 

     

    Whatever happens, this day is certainly going to make history for Scotland!

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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, crisp, calm and sunny
  • Location: Bedfordshire/Herts border 40m asl

    Not all over the BBC and stuff then? :wink: 

     

    Like/visit YesScotland facebook groups if you have facebook.

     

    Lots coming through there.

     

    Also twitter.

     

    George Square earlier:

     

    https://twitter.com/Rebecca0501/status/512308795016757248

     

    Another of George Square earlier.

     

    Of course this is not just happening there, but across scotland.

     

    10620586_648052745316017_502894413960504

     

    Thanks SS - wow!  Wish I was still there - I can see my old office in that photo....

     

    I'm gonna guess Yes 44%, No 56%. I think a majority of those who've declared themselves undecided will vote No or not vote at all. I also think there's a group of 'quiet No' voters - whether or not this has appeared in polling I'm not sure, but I think when it comes to rhetoric on social media and daily life it's definitely significant.

     

    I'm not so sure.  I watched an interesting programme on BBC2 last night.  It was broadcast from Glasgow and followed 3 undecided voters into a debate by both yes and no supporters, with three guest speakers making contributions.  I have to say it was fairly done and it was refreshing to hear individuals being able to articulate their thoughts and feelings.  At the end each of the three were asked if they were swayed one way or the other.  All three gave measured responses, explained the reasons for their opinion, then said they would vote YES.  

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    andy murray voting 'YES' :cc_confused:  that's a big surprise.

     

    Aye, we can call off the referendum now.

     

    In the end, this was the question that everyone wanted answered. :D 

     

    https://twitter.com/andy_murray/status/512392618077323264

     

    Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!

     

     

    I'll be at the polling station ~9.00 am to cast my vote.

     

    Have a good day everyone. 

     

    "Now's the day, an now's the hour"

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    So the vote for "divorce or not" is underway.

    It's like going through a divorce where one partner has all the say, the power and the other partner has none whatsoever. We just sit there, wait for the result of the divorce, make promises to the other partner at our expense to keep them in the relationship but nothing in return?

    When this is over and whatever the result, Westminster needs to get their backside kicked into gear and sort the constitutional mess we are in because IMO, the constitution is on the rack at the moment.

    I think we should have a fully elected second chamber or if not it's abolition.

    I think we should have a federal type of system, a bit like Canada and Australia, whether Scotland stays in the Union or not. The constitutional imbalance now is unsustainable.

    People have to be encouraged to vote, they need to be positively engaged in politics. The turnouts at the last 3 general elections have been too low.

    A complete review of constituency boundaries, a complete review of our voting systems. How many different voting systems are we using now?

    A review on when we vote in our elections. Why is it always a Thursday? What about the weekend or some other day?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I'm gonna guess Yes 44%, No 56%. I think a majority of those who've declared themselves undecided will vote No or not vote at all. I also think there's a group of 'quiet No' voters - whether or not this has appeared in polling I'm not sure, but I think when it comes to rhetoric on social media and daily life it's definitely significant.

     

    Polling results do suggest a silent / non-responsive group. ICM have been trying to find out who this '10% flatly refusing to respond' are.

     

    Polling data suggests they are:

     

    - Scottish by country of birth, as evidenced in under-representation in all online polls

    - 'Scottish only' (census) / Scottish not British + more Scottish than British (historical average in Scottish Social attitude surveys) in national identity as seen in MORI telephone. This group comprises ~62.4% of the population

     

    I must admit when I saw the Yes up in MORI to 49%, I expected a rise in SnB + mStB, but not so, suggesting this group is still being quiet. Although a rocketing Yes in this group from respondents agreeing to be polled helps explain the sudden gap closure; that and rising Yes/falling No in eSaB (80% Y / 10% No in SnB + 56% Y / 27% No in mstB).

     

    Certainly, when Yes was as low as 25% (TNS face to face) with No at up to 55% in 2013, this might give an indication of where a shy vote might be.

     

    I guess we'll see tomorrow.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Not to forget that today the really important issue will be settled.

     

    Scotland's Really Big Vote: Can Women Join St. Andrews Golf Club?

    So we have all this rubbish spouted about Scotland being a more equal society while sexism is clearly still rife.

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    So the vote for "divorce or not" is underway.

    It's like going through a divorce where one partner has all the say, the power and the other partner has none whatsoever. We just sit there, wait for the result of the divorce, make promises to the other partner at our expense to keep them in the relationship but nothing in return?

    When this is over and whatever the result, Westminster needs to get their backside kicked into gear and sort the constitutional mess we are in because IMO, the constitution is on the rack at the moment.

    I think we should have a fully elected second chamber or if not it's abolition.

    I think we should have a federal type of system, a bit like Canada and Australia, whether Scotland stays in the Union or not. The constitutional imbalance now is unsustainable.

    People have to be encouraged to vote, they need to be positively engaged in politics. The turnouts at the last 3 general elections have been too low.

    A complete review of constituency boundaries, a complete review of our voting systems. How many different voting systems are we using now?

    A review on when we vote in our elections. Why is it always a Thursday? What about the weekend or some other day?

    100% agree with these comments.

    Our politicians still believe and act in a way that the great British Empire is still alive and well. They spend our taxes on illegal wars and helping the financial banking institutions, but deny the people a decent living wage, a decent living pension and allow the most vulnerable people in society to have to rely on charities to help them feed their children.....is this a society we want to live in?

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Wow, finally here ! A lot of last minute bargaining, cajoling, arguing, vein attempts to make arguments on Social Media last night. I just left folks with this..

     

    With 97% of the electorate registered to vote, this is nothing short of remarkable. Whichever way the result goes, we are all wide awake - the world has sat up and taken notice witnessing a nation engaged with her future. For this reason we have all won already.

     

    Today, it's not the weight of history you feel on your shoulders, it is the weight of opportunity.

     

    Going to be a long night !!

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    To be honest I think the no will win. N0 58 - 60%. I just still want for the yes to win though.

    Edited by pip22
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Polling results do suggest a silent / non-responsive group. ICM have been trying to find out who this '10% flatly refusing to respond' are.

     

    Polling data suggests they are:

     

    - Scottish by country of birth, as evidenced in under-representation in all online polls

    - 'Scottish only' (census) / Scottish not British + more Scottish than British (historical average in Scottish Social attitude surveys) in national identity as seen in MORI telephone. This group comprises ~62.4% of the population

     

    I must admit when I saw the Yes up in MORI to 49%, I expected a rise in SnB + mStB, but not so, suggesting this group is still being quiet. Although a rocketing Yes in this group from respondents agreeing to be polled helps explain the sudden gap closure; that and rising Yes/falling No in eSaB (80% Y / 10% No in SnB + 56% Y / 27% No in mstB).

     

    Certainly, when Yes was as low as 25% (TNS face to face) with No at up to 55% in 2013, this might give an indication of where a shy vote might be.

     

    I guess we'll see tomorrow.

    The guy on Polling Report seems to think there's a chance the silent "Nos" have been underestimated in the polls leading up to today, but like you say it'll all be known this time tomorrow

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    I don't see how talking about the NHS in here is going off topic have we not to talk about one of the biggest issues of the debate because if we vote no then this is what awaits us a privatised NHS

    Fair enough but in answer to your first post NI is NOT lower than private medical Insurance and is not used for spending directly on the NHS... I said it was GOING off topic only because I was leading onto discussing more about general taxation and public spending and that applies for Scotland and rUK.

    As I understand it Holyrood already has significant control of their own NHS budget and after tomorrow may be in a position to start thinking about how they raise taxes to pay for all the promised public spending.

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The guy on Polling Report seems to think there's a chance the silent "Nos" have been underestimated in the polls leading up to today, but like you say it'll all be known this time tomorrow

     

    It's possible. I'm not sure where that comes from though.

     

    For example, in the latest ICM and panelbase polls, the number of Scottish born (majority Yes) answering dropped again to 74(-8 )% and 75(-7)% (changes relative to census), with English born (majority No) rising.

     

    Anyway, I'll be very glad to put my polling analyses aside. If it's a Yes that is!

     

    Ok, I'm off to vote then work.

     

    Be nice everyone and enjoy democracy in action!

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Odiham, Hampshire
  • Location: Odiham, Hampshire

    A summary of the pros and cons for the undecided.

    Vote YES for:-

    Higher unemployment

    Higher prices

    No currency

    No EU membership

    Economic decline

    De-population

    Vote NO for:-

    Jobs

    Prosperity

    Opportunity

    Influence

    Financial security

    Growth

    Good luck and play nicely.

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    Posted
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, ice, cold
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl

    It's possible. I'm not sure where that comes from though.

     

    For example, in the latest ICM and panelbase polls, the number of Scottish born (majority Yes) answering dropped again to 74(-8 )% and 75(-7)% (changes relative to census), with English born (majority No) rising.

     

     

    I'm still baffled by this aspect of the polls, though - all three of us have been polled twice and none of us has been asked our country of birth/ethnicity/length of residency here, etc….. so some polls don't include that data at all?

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    So we have all this rubbish spouted about Scotland being a more equal society while sexism is clearly still rife.

     

    And at three other championship courses as well. Positively medieval.

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    Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    Good luck all. Whereas I don't want to see the break up of the Union, I hope that post vote everyone will the work together to achieve the best whatever the outcome.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dundee
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, thunderstorms, gales. All extremes except humidity.
  • Location: Dundee

    Well the big day has arrived. I am one of those people who tends to see both sides of an argument, sometimes even to the point of acting devils advocate even to the side I support. IMO there has been plenty in this thread and throughout the internet that could be torn to bits on both sides.

    I have been an SNP voter for 35 years but have wavered a bit in the last few days because of some of the rubbish I have read mostly online and the inability of some to see any other view than thier own. Howver I just had to look over at alternative threads on other sites that were dominated by No's to see even worse. However my wavering means nothing as I posted my vote two weeks ago. Some others may have felt the same doubts though.

    Now I am more positive but will accept the result however it pans out. I just hope that there are no recriminations whoever wins either inside Scotland or from elsewhere.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    Fair enough but in answer to your first post NI is NOT lower than private medical Insurance and is not used for spending directly on the NHS... I said it was GOING off topic only because I was leading onto discussing more about general taxation and public spending and that applies for Scotland and rUK.

    As I understand it Holyrood already has significant control of their own NHS budget and after tomorrow may be in a position to start thinking about how they raise taxes to pay for all the promised public spending.

     

     

    ah ok I thought you were talking about the whole subject.

     

    health insurance doesn't cost much just now in the UK  http://www.womenrepublic.co.uk/health/insurance/

     

    but if we are going down the American route with full on health insurance it will cost a lot more than what they are now as its American companies that are coming in here is what it cost in 2011 there and prices rose since 2010 so you could just imagine what they are paying right now with it rising every year http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-Much-Does-Health-iw-1773357078.html

     

    now I wouldn't want to be paying £5k a year for family health insurance or even more and this will continue to rise every year where as NI at 9-12% http://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/guides/national-insurance-explained/national-insurance-rates isn't far off these costs but I would rather have an NHS that doesn't differentiate between people who work and people who don't and would obviously expect you to pay higher prices if you are extremely ill as your costs would be much more after all they will be looking out for themselves and not caring about the person anymore.

     

    they have control on how they set the budget they don't have control of the money they have coming in which is less that we pay in tax so this would go to help to pay for the extra services, then theres the money we would save from trident renewal and the up keep of it plus the extra income we will receive from growing renewables, all the extra oil we know we have sitting around the coasts which wouldn't be long going into production, as well as the cut in corporation tax to encourage new jobs to help bring down the welfare budget and raise more taxes coming in so we have plenty of ways to pay for it

    Edited by Buriedundersnow
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    I really hope your right for the sake of the union as well as the stability of the uk.

    When this is over and whatever the result, Westminster needs to get their backside kicked into gear and sort the constitutional mess we are in because IMO, the constitution is on the rack at the moment.

    Pretty much agree with what WH says above, but this and posts about hoping for a no vote for stability both tie in with how Tom Devine neatly summed things up last night.

    It does not matter whether it is a no or a yes vote today, the Union is dead. We can do this cleanly and fairly amicably now, or we can have years of increasingly bitter constitutional wrangling.

    It's time for Scotland Can, not Scotland can't, let's do this today.

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    As she is the only Queen Elizabeth Scotland has had she does not need the 'First' designation. Royal address and titles are different up here, but the Kingdom of Fife will always be a kingdom no matter the vote :diablo:

     

    Interestingly though the kings and queens of Scotland were referred to as king/queen of Scots. They governed the PEOPLE by consent, they did not rule the land as such, hence they were not called kings/queens of ScotLAND

    Of course if the vote does go to a 'Yes', you could resurrect the 'Stuart' line - bound to be somebody around who will qualify :)

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Economic decline

    De-population

    That has been Scotland's 'Union Dividend' for much of the Union. The population of Highland Scotland today is only HALF what it was early in the Union. Scotland was a nation where de-population and emigration became the accepted norm. That trend was finally stopped and is now beginning to reverse thanks to having a Scottish Parliament. We can do so much more by completing the Home Rule journey today.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    That has been Scotland's 'Union Dividend' for much of the Union. The population of Highland Scotland today is only HALF what it was early in the Union. Scotland was a nation where de-population and emigration became the accepted norm. That trend was finally stopped and is now beginning to reverse thanks to having a Scottish Parliament. We can do so much more by completing the Home Rule journey today.

     

    That's a tad disingenuous. Population as a whole is five times what it was in the early 1700s. And as for de-population and emigration becoming the accepted norm then so it was for others. Particularly Ireland and Cornwall

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    Posted
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh

    Off just now to cast my No vote

     

    Whatever the result completely agree with Lorenzo - the times will be a changin'

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Off just now to cast my No vote

     

    Whatever the result completely agree with Lorenzo - the times will be a changin'

     

    Whatever the situation, wherever you are, whenever the time... Bob Dylan's words are always apposite. :)

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