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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft
  • Weather Preferences: Lightning, Snow
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft

    So you're getting this from Welsh nationalists, personal anecdote, pro-nationalist websites, and youtube? I don't think that's a particularly telling sample.

     

    I should of realised when the BBC started reporting it - it's obviously supposed to be a "if you go independent, it's not just you - wales will be next, you are breaking up the family" type of thing. Sky News says latest poll shows 17% of Welsh want independence.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Im not sure i agree, the very fact it so close shows how divided the country is and the rhetoric has been getting steadily more aggressive as the vote gets closer. As an example if No win by a narrow margin (as i hope they will and as per the polls) do we think all these yes voters who have become so emotionally invested and energised by this process will just accept it? I fear there will be protests, disorder etc and a huge wailing around the MSM, Campaign lies, Westminster etc

     

    Whichever way this goes there will have to be a big repair job on the losing side who will feel immensely disaffected and concerned - and i'd wager even if it is No the debate on the state of the UK and the status Quo will have consequences across the rest of the country as well

     

    Aye, I would agree with the basis of this Joe. I think if YES win by a narrow margin there will still be protests and lot of wailing. So unless one side of the vote collapses in the next 24 hours (or is ripped limb from limb by the angry Nationalist-Nazi Alex Salmond loving hate mobs which are roaming the streets) then the vote may well settle very little for a long time to come.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

     Andrew, although the last few weeks have been a bit of a shock to very many Scots, who tend to the unemotional and jokey self-deprecating type, I think it's been a good thing, showing us all that we are capable of engagement when it matters enough. But the closing stages of this extraordinary marathon, although dramatic, aren't cataclysmic. Afterwards, whatever happens, I think we'll all roll up the banners and put away the badges and go back to how it was before, in terms of getting on with one another, even those we've fallen out badly with over this.

     

    It might be a bit harder after a 'yes' because of the huge changes to be wrought, but again everyone will work together to make it work, as I think our leaders will. Conversely,  if it's a 'no', those on the losing side will I think be disappointed and resigned (Scots are very good at losing, after all ;-)), but also - the activists at least - looking to the future to prepare for next time. There will be a next time, and I don't think all of these youngsters newly engaged by the events of 2014, will be prepared to wait the 'generation' suggested by AS. And I for one will look forward to next time. I might even be on the 'yes' side

     

    There is a very good article in the Times today by Michael Ignatieff, former leader of the Liberal Party in Canada, on this very subject. Not ideal but a brief extract.

     

    For the sake of Scotland, don’t be a bad loser

     

    Bitterness from the 1995 Quebec referendum is still rife today. That should be a lesson to us all

     

    Canadians who remember our referendum ordeal know just how divisive the aftermath can be. The Yes campaign for Quebec’s independence lost by the narrowest of margins in 1995 — just under a single per cent of the total votes cast. In his concession speech, the leader of the Yes campaign,

     

    Jacques Parizeau, laid the blame for defeat on “money and the ethnic voteâ€. It was a remark no Jewish or immigrant Quebecker could ever forgive or forget. It also disgusted many supporters of independence.

     

    Mr Parizeau’s meanness in defeat has dogged the Quebec independence campaign ever since. Mr Parizeau believed, given the closeness of the result, that another referendum was just around the corner. Nineteen years later, another referendum is on no one’s horizon.

     

    Mr Salmond should take note. If he loses, his chance of getting another one depends critically on how gracefully he concedes defeat; in particular, how he reaches out to those Scots who didn’t vote for him. The same applies to David Cameron. For both sides, magnanimity in defeat may turn out to be as vital to civil peace as magnanimity in victory.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Im not sure i agree, the very fact it so close shows how divided the country is and the rhetoric has been getting steadily more aggressive as the vote gets closer. As an example if No win by a narrow margin (as i hope they will and as per the polls) do we think all these yes voters who have become so emotionally invested and energised by this process will just accept it? I fear there will be protests, disorder etc and a huge wailing around the MSM, Campaign lies, Westminster etc

     

     

    There will always be a few who will find it difficult to accept a No, but only a few and that's no different from the other side. Scots have generally been reluctant to do protests and we certainly don't have any recent history of doing 'disorder'. The only possible scenario I can see for there being any mass protest at a No result is if it's shown that there's been some manipulation of the vote having been carried out (I don't personally believe any of the 'conspiracy theories' that this is possible on a scale that could affect the outcome).

     

    I do think there may be "wailing around the MSM" and quite rightly so in my opinion. The newspapers I largely wrote off years ago anyway but up until recently I'd have defended the BBC. But not now. It's been too easy to listen to or read a BBC story then go to the original source and see the obvious 'spin' that's been put on it. I know a lot of other people who feel similarly now too. I've never wanted the BBC to be 'pro Yes' but balanced and accurate would have been a start. A lot of people are claiming to have cancelled their TV licenses over this (probably a drop in the ocean in reality) and if I didn't have 3 kids I'd seriously be considering it myself. Most of the time the wife and I spend in front of the TV now is watching stuff streamed from Netflix or Lovefilm anyway. I really don't think I'd miss not having the BBC any more!

     

    i'd wager even if it is No the debate on the state of the UK and the status Quo will have consequences across the rest of the country as well

     

    I'd bloody well hope so! After all the '3 Amigos' have made 'promises' which they will need to keep and that's already not going down well elsewhere in the UK. Whatever way the vote goes this is not the end of it by any means. Obviously I want a Yes, but if it is a No then if it at least kicks off wider, positive changes across the whole UK then it might have been worth it. Forgive my cynicism though if I believe that the first thing the Westminster politicians will try to do is quietly shift it all into the background again. Something 'more important' will come up, such as Syria, Ukraine, or the banks/economy to distract the populace.

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    When is the Ipsos poll meant to be out?

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    Posted
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft
  • Weather Preferences: Lightning, Snow
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft

     

     

    I'd bloody well hope so! After all the '3 Amigos' have made 'promises' which they will need to keep and that's already not going down well elsewhere in the UK. Whatever way the vote goes this is not the end of it by any means. Obviously I want a Yes, but if it is a No then if it at least kicks off wider, positive changes across the whole UK then it might have been worth it. Forgive my cynicism though if I believe that the first thing the Westminster politicians will try to do is quietly shift it all into the background again. Something 'more important' will come up, such as Syria, Ukraine, or the banks/economy to distract the populace.

     

    It would be like a soap opera.... only even soap operas don't get this depressing -

    not only are they saying they will block any new powers for Scotland, but they are now back to scrapping the Barnett Formula again - because apparently the country that is rapidly heading to 1 in 4 children being in poverty - is getting too much money to spend......

     

    But now Spain have finally reared their head and claimed that Scotland would not be allowed to fast track into the EU and would have to accept the Euro.... presumably that means they can't fish in our waters if they aren't part of the EU?

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    If it's a narrow no vote, the Scottish Government is ready to hit the ground running spearheading the push for genuine DevoMax. The grassroots momentum behind YES Scotland isn't just going to dissipate, and a sizeable portion of those who vote no tomorrow will also be in the DevoMax camp. Passions are high for sure, but I don't believe the hyperbole from the MSM about the divisiveness of the referendum. Though I think it partly comes from the fact that large swathes of the UK MSM only just woke up to the debate when that run of YouGov polls showed a significant swing to YES, oblivious that not only has the referendum campaign has been going for 2 years, but the constitutional debate has been developing over generations.

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    Posted
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft
  • Weather Preferences: Lightning, Snow
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft

    Can I just quickly ask - MSM? I Googled.... but got Chemistry......

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    If it's a narrow no vote, the Scottish Government is ready to hit the ground running spearheading the push for genuine DevoMax. The grassroots momentum behind YES Scotland isn't just going to dissipate, and a sizeable portion of those who vote no tomorrow will also be in the DevoMax camp. Passions are high for sure, but I don't believe the hyperbole from the MSM about the divisiveness of the referendum. Though I think it partly comes from the fact that large swathes of the UK MSM only just woke up to the debate when that run of YouGov polls showed a significant swing to YES, oblivious that not only has the referendum campaign has been going for 2 years, but the constitutional debate has been developing over generations.

     

    The biggest problem with the MSM and the "divisiveness" issue is that they are presenting it as a one sided affair. There have been negative over the line acts against both campaigns, but the MSM are showing it all against the NO campaign and nothing against YES. Therefore in the eyes of anyone who takes their cue from the MSM it's all one sided. There are still people out there who will not accept that anything has been done against the YES campaign, no threats made, no signs defaced, no shops vandalised, nothing. There has been wrong on both sides. Can I judge if it's 50-50 or 60-40? Nope. I don't have enough evidence but I know it's coming from everywhere.

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    Posted
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, ice, cold
  • Location: Telford, c.150m asl

    I'm getting worried about the repercussions too… since my schooldays I've wished I sounded Scottish, but now, as I'm moving to Shropshire in November to live, I am feeling depressedly glad I sound English, because I'm picking up on a lot of "eff off, Scotland, we don't want you anyway" comments and, from discussions with England-based friends and fmaily, the misreporting down there means a lot of people are very hurt and resentful...

    I just hope everything goes peacefully.

    My poor nieces, who are fervent voters in every election possible, are wretched and miserable and wishing they didn't have to vote. The whole thing is just dragging a lot of people down just now, it seems to me. Roll on Friday - I'd rather just know the result, and get on with dealing with it… 

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    Either the Result of the referendum will disappoint many people especially in Scotland. I think there is a greater risk of clashes this weekend due to the results.

    Edited by pip22
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    Posted
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft
  • Weather Preferences: Lightning, Snow
  • Location: Scottish Borders (SE) 150m/492ft

    I'm getting worried about the repercussions too… since my schooldays I've wished I sounded Scottish, but now, as I'm moving to Shropshire in November to live, I am feeling depressedly glad I sound English, because I'm picking up on a lot of "eff off, Scotland, we don't want you anyway" comments and, from discussions with England-based friends and fmaily, the misreporting down there means a lot of people are very hurt and resentful...

    I just hope everything goes peacefully.

    My poor nieces, who are fervent voters in every election possible, are wretched and miserable and wishing they didn't have to vote. The whole thing is just dragging a lot of people down just now, it seems to me. Roll on Friday - I'd rather just know the result, and get on with dealing with it… 

     

    Unfortunately since Better Together have been pedaling the lie that we are subsidised and therefore costing the tax payers their hard earned cash - yes.... there is a lot of tension in England. Obviously little of Alex Salmond's campaign has been further south - because that would be a promotion of the Yes campaign - and the Yes campaign only exists when it leads polls, or when tensions get out hand and someone gets shouted at - or an egg slapped on their shoulder (note not thrown as the media often reported). The rest of the time - the Yes campaign ceases to exist.

     

    So far - we are costing them money, we don't know how good we have it, we are just nationalists, we are selfish and they hope we fail.

    Lovely sentiments eh?

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Can I just quickly ask - MSM? .

    Unionist progaganda machine.

     

    It's not often i cry but this brought a wee tear to meh ee....

     

    http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/09/17/its-time/#comment-26881

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Roll on Friday - I'd rather just know the result, and get on with dealing with it… 

     

    That's quite a common reaction in all elections but has probably been amplified give the referendum campaign has been much longer. Stay positive, and when you go into the booth tomorrow, think about what is the best option for the future of those neices of yours.

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    Well apart from the news,

    Apart from Welsh people posting videos on YouTube cheering us on - like Rhys Ifans

    Apart from various independence webpages springing up like this one http://www.welshindependence.net/

    And apart from Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood joining Alex Salmond in Scotland to help convince the Scottish People to vote Yes.

     

    Generally because I know people in Wales and they tell me.

    but here you go - 11 hours ago - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/sep/16/plaid-cymru-wales-scotland-independence-video

     

    Well I for one am against Scottish independence and most of the people I know want Scotland to stay with us in the union also. Also there is very little appetite amongst ordinary people for Welsh independence. There are a small minority who like in Scotland shout the loudest. I'm against it

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    Alot of Yes's in Inverness.

     

    post-16474-0-31652900-1410954567_thumb.j

     

     

    Some Nos too.

    Edited by pip22
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Unfortunately since Better Together have been pedaling the lie that we are subsidised and therefore costing the tax payers their hard earned cash - yes.... there is a lot of tension in England. Obviously little of Alex Salmond's campaign has been further south - because that would be a promotion of the Yes campaign - and the Yes campaign only exists when it leads polls, or when tensions get out hand and someone gets shouted at - or an egg slapped on their shoulder (note not thrown as the media often reported). The rest of the time - the Yes campaign ceases to exist.

     

    So far - we are costing them money, we don't know how good we have it, we are just nationalists, we are selfish and they hope we fail.

    Lovely sentiments eh?

     

    Whose 'them' in that little rant?

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Well I for one am against Scottish independence and most of the people I know want Scotland to stay with us in the union also. Also there is very little appetite amongst ordinary people for Welsh independence. There are a small minority who like in Scotland shout the loudest. I'm against it

     

    From what I've heard you're bang on about the Welsh, and you should know :)

     

    I wouldn't agree with the "shout the loudest" part...you clearly haven't heard how loud the unionists up here are shouting online this morning :D I've so far been called stupid, nonsensical, delusional and (by association with the YES movement) a Nazi. Often in CAPITALS AS IF I CAN'T READ lowercase very well.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    From what I've heard you're bang on about the Welsh, and you should know :)

     

    I wouldn't agree with the "shout the loudest" part...you clearly haven't heard how loud the unionists up here are shouting online this morning  :D I've so far been called stupid, nonsensical, delusional and (by association with the YES movement) a Nazi. Often in CAPITALS AS IF I CAN'T READ lowercase very well.

     

    That's nothing in the climate debate if you support AGW you are a creepy playtime Nazi cross dresser.

    Edited by knocker
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    This evening, for STV.

    Game changer i reckon

     

    In what way will it be a game changer?

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    In what way will it be a game changer?

    Hopefully the Yes side. It would cause a Tsunami to Westminster and blow the coalition away!! :)

    Edited by pip22
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