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Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Not what the SNP finance minister told the daily politics expressly (a clear answer as well, no attempt to avoid the question).

    He stated that until a Euro referendum they would maintain monetary union with the UK (BOE deciding interest rates and money supply) and keep sterling.

    Essentially like now you would use both English and Scottish notes, especially since there will still be free movement of people and for that reason i am not so sure that we will see many companies moving bases or splitting into two divisions because there is simply no need.

    Sorry SB, that's what I meant - Scotland would retain its own currency - the Scots £ sterling - as Scots been using for 300+ years (just the scots pound before that). As part of the Treaty of Union, with the seals of both parliaments on it, the Scots pound was pegged to equal the English pound, both being then £1 sterling in value. It is not planned that this would change for the foreseeable,with an agreed fiscal stablility pact between Scotland and the rUK being seen as a prudent way of ensuring currency stability.

    And yes, I don't see any sudden jump of companies back and forth. Long term one would expect some shifts, but that could be either way and back/forth between other countries too. Business as usual really.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Sorry SB, that's what I meant - Scotland would retain its own currency - the Scots £ sterling - as Scots been using for 300+ years (just the scots pound before that). As part of the Treaty of Union, with the seals of both parliaments on it, the Scots pound was pegged to equal the English pound, both being then £1 sterling in value. It is not planned that this would change for the foreseeable,with an agreed fiscal stablility pact between Scotland and the rUK being seen as a prudent way of ensuring currency stability.

    And yes, I don't see any sudden jump of companies back and forth. Long term one would expect some shifts, but that could be either way and back/forth between other countries too. Business as usual really.

    Yup.

    As we stated earlier, this independence referendum is about voting for 'devo excel' rather than full on independence.

    Plus the UK will probably join you in a federal Europe eventually.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Scottish Skier I know one of the reasons that you support Scottish indepependance is because you see Scotland as being overwhelmingly left wing and that the tories are only really voted for by English voters (predominantly southeatern/country ones). However to me that doesn't really constitute a good reason for breaking up the UK. After all the tories won't be in power forever and it is common for different parts of countries to have differnt voting tendancies (just look at America). It seems to me Scottish independance is more about heart than mind and supporters of it seem to think it will create some sort of utopia. As far as i'm concerned people in these islands should get out of this medieval kingdom mentality and forget about English, Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish/Ulster identity (as far as i'm concerned i'm British not English) and except that we lve on a Atlantic archipelago that is already a nation state (excepting the ROI) and there is no need to change that. As for fixing the state of UK politics you don't need secession/indepependance to try and change that. What makes you think that an independant Scotland is going to be any different?

    Have you read the whole thread? I wouldn't say Scotland is strongly left wing, in fact it is more centrist to left (health & education) moderately liberal. It has a right, a left and a centre. Labour, the Libs and the Tories are variations on the right by Europeans standards. The SNP well, centrist to slightly left moderately liberal of course, i.e. right in the middle of Scottish electorate views. Hence the success.

    The Tories have become, starting in 1964 when they absorbed the Scottish Unionists, the English National Party. At least that is how they are viewed in Scotland and for good reason. Hence only 1 MP (borders) and nearly fringe status in Holyrood.

    Utopia? LOL, I don't think anyone thinks that. It is about chosing how our taxes are raised and spent/our resources managed. Democracy if you like.

    There is no single reason for interest in self determination, each person has their own reasons. It's a mix of politics, views on how government should be run etc, but ultimately it is because Scotland is a country/nation. Scots have never historically been 'British', but Scots and British to varying extents. >80% of Scots are Scottish first, with over 50% having little or no affinity for 'Britain', largely thanks to Thatcher and the Tories in recent decades.

    Quick sum up of the current movement:

    1928 Universal suffrage in the UK. Birth of the SNP

    Wars the focus for the next while

    1947-1950 ~Half the Scottish electorate signed a petition calling for a Scottish devolved parliament. Empire declining, Eire gone. Scotland looking to rule itself more again.

    It took until 1979 and a huge surge in support for the SNP to get a referendum on it

    People voted YES (52%), Westminster said no because oil had been found. Result was overruled, democracy repressed.

    1979-2002 saw Scotland as the only country in the world where huge amounts of oil had been found, bringing huge wealth to London, that then suffered mass unemployment (much greater than the rest of the UK) and emmigration, with a 3% drop in population. This is while every other country was growing in population and London/the SE were getting new motorways, nice channel tunnels etc paid for with black gold £'s.

    1997 Scots were ready to vote for independence with polls at >50% yes and no doubt a majority would have been delivered

    1997 UK, 12 years after it was opened for signatures, UK signed up to the European Charter on Local Self Governance to avoid sanctions due to be imposed by the Council of Europe on those countries not meeting required democractic standards. Devolution was the result. 70% of Scots voted for it.

    Scots like their friends and neighbours in England, Wales and N Ireland, they just wish to govern themselves, as is the norm for countries.

    Polls now showing consistent 70% support for remaining in the union but taking complete responsibility for raising/spending of all taxes in Scotland, i.e. Devo Maxx / Full fiscal autonomy. Only defense and foreign relations would remain a joint 'UK' issue.

    Westminster shows no clear intention of allowing this to happen. I do not expect them too - they like to control everything. Ergo, when faced with a straight Y/N, I and a majority of my countrymen will vote yes as the means to achieve what we wish. At the mo, at least 40% of Scots are prepared to vote yes even of Devo is on the cards. This is growing in reaction to Westminster trying to suppress it.

    It is Westminster breaking up the Union, not Scotland. It is trying to govern the UK as one country when it is not, Scotland is not Britain but a country within the UK which is a union of countries/nations. It must be treated like that or it will leave.

    FFA/Devo max sounds very fair to me. An end to all the 'you jocks are subsidised by our english taxes' Daily mail crap and at the same time no more Scots MPs voting on English domestic matters. Certainly the will of Scots, but try telling that to Westminster!

    As we stated earlier, this independence referendum is about voting for 'devo excel' rather than full on independence.

    Aye, that's what's got westminster worried. It is sovereignty we will be voting for - the ability to choose for ourselves. There is no real 'independence' in the modern, interdependent world. N. Korea is the closest to that - clearly does not work

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL

    I agree with you that the main UK political parties are going to have to seriously compromise when it comes to the independance referendum. This idea of controling everything from the Shetland isles to the Scilly isles has got to be revised and we do need a federal system if any form of UK is to survive the next decade. As for Scotland not being part of Britain, well it is. Britain is the geographic name for the island we live on and it has to be called something. Also if the tories are viewed as the party of England then they have to break up the party and give their current Scottish members complete independance as a party in their own right again that is very Scottish but pro union at the same time. Then Scottish voters won't be so afraid of them and they could become a valid opposition to the SNP. Unfortunatly this will probably never happen.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Scottish Skier I know one of the reasons that you support Scottish indepependance is because you see Scotland as being overwhelmingly left wing and that the tories are only really voted for by English voters (predominantly southeatern/country ones). However to me that doesn't really constitute a good reason for breaking up the UK. After all the tories won't be in power forever and it is common for different parts of countries to have differnt voting tendancies (just look at America). It seems to me Scottish independance is more about heart than mind and supporters of it seem to think it will create some sort of utopia. As far as i'm concerned people in these islands should get out of this medieval kingdom mentality and forget about English, Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish/Ulster identity (as far as i'm concerned i'm British not English) and except that we lve on a Atlantic archipelago that is already a nation state (excepting the ROI) and there is no need to change that. As for fixing the state of UK politics you don't need secession/indepependance to try and change that. What makes you think that an independant Scotland is going to be any different?

    You see where you go wrong here is trying to foist a British identity onto others. The majority of Scots feel Scottish not British and polls have shown this time and time again. British is not a stand alone or even a nationality. It descriibes a collection of countries the same way Scandanavian does to the Swedes,Finns and Danish. They are all Danish,Finnish and Swedish. Scandanavia describes the area of Europe they come from not their nationality. In actual fact it is healthier to allow and recognise individuals freedom to assume their nationality than to presume or force a nationality onto someone. That simply does not work and leads to fascism. I am what is in my heart not what is in your heart. I am Scottish and proud to be and I recognise your right to feel what is in your heart. You need to be who you are and myself likewise. Let difference flourish do not try and destroy individualism by creating false uniformity.
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    Posted
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL

    The reason I feel more British than English is because my father is from a unionist Northern Irish family (ie of the moderate type who will happily identify themselves as Irish and support the Irish rugby team etc) and his great grandfather was a Scot from Dundee. Therefore I consider myself half English 7 16ths Irish and 1 16th Scottish for good measure. Therefore I'm a product of all parts of these islands so feel more British than anything else.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    The reason I feel more British than English is because my father is from a unionist Northern Irish family (ie of the moderate type who will happily identify themselves as Irish and support the Irish rugby team etc) and his great grandfather was a Scot from Dundee. Therefore I consider myself half English 7 16ths Irish and 1 16th Scottish for good measure. Therefore I'm a product of all parts of these islands so feel more British than anything else.

    Yes and there is no issue with that. However that is your individual circumstance rather than the way the collective may feel. The only thing I would say in response is personally. Every side of my family are from the Irish Republic if I go back to my Great Grandparents. But I was born and raised in Scotland so I feel and am Scottish. I do not feel even slightly Irish so it just depends on the individual. One thing I have never felt is British because it means nothing to me. I would have to pretend it did so I just get on with being a Scot!
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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Personally i go bigger, i identify myself as European.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    In terms of family history, 1/4 Irish and 3/4 Scottish. No idea beyond that.

    I am Scottish for the same reasons someone from Denmark is Danish. I was born in Scotland and have lived most of my life in Scotland (Highlands, then Central, then Borders), bar a 5 year stint in Nigeria. I studied the Scottish curriculum (standard grades, highers), then did a Scottish 4 year honours degree course. I support Scotland at the football and rugby, painful as that may be most of the time. My number plate has a wee saltire on it alongside the EU flag; not put there by me, but quite standard. Both my names are Scottish and I have a kilt as appropriate...the list goes on. All these little things contribute to shape people's identity about who they are and where they live.

    My work rarely takes me to other parts of the UK as it is a Scottish industry in terms of the British isles. Most of my work travel is to the Middle East or the states. I pop into London only every so often with work (maybe once a year) so I’m not very familiar at all with it. Edinburgh, Glasgow etc I know well in contrast.

    I feel Scottish and European. The fact my wife is French - hence half my extended family and friends are too – I guess makes me identify more strongly as European. By circumstance, I spend more time in France than I do in other parts of the UK.

    I do have some memories ‘British’ things in my life when I was young (British Rail, Telecom, Gas, Steel, leyland etc). But as I grew up/became more aware of such things (e.g. started to think about the world, politics, history), they were disappearing rapidly from Scotland. By the time I came of voting age (just in time for the devolution referendum in 1997) they were largely all gone.

    With the re-opening of the Scottish Parliament, Scotland really started to become Scotland again and has become progressively more so since. As I’ve said before, there is little symbolism in Scotland today which indicates you are in a part of the UK. I can see 10’s of saltires, thistles, lion rampants during my day on signs and cars, lorries etc, but will only spot a union jack if I look hard enough, and most of the time that’s on a lorry up from England.

    Even local supermarkets are now going for saltires everywhere. One presumes putting saltires on stuff sells more...

    My local Asda/Tesco are both doing it, e.g.

    Posted Image

    I am one of the under 35 group (ok, well I’ve just left that group) who support independence in considerable majority (only the over 55's are strongly against). Why is it like this? Presumably for the above reasons; we have little or no memory of things British (empire, nationalised industry etc), and ‘came of age’ in a Scotland that has become nearly an independent nation again. Circumstance makes us what we are.

    Scotland has not been becoming more ‘Scottish’ per se – the primary identity of most Scots. Rather, the secondary ‘British’ identity has been progressively lost, with people likemyself never having really had such an identity, other that that's what my passport says.

    Edit. I guess I’m also quite an 'internationalist' too, which may have come from my student and work life.

    I’m sitting here in my office (coffee break I assure you!) with staff from Scotland, England, Iran, Venezula, France, China, Poland.... I love that aspect of my work environment – to learn about other countries, their cultures, politics etc first hand.

    --------------------

    EDIT and unrelated. GERS figures out. Looking no bad.

    http://www.scotland....omment-07032012

    Government and Expenditure Revenue Scotland 2010-11 (GERS), published today by the Chief Statistician, shows that, including a geographical share of UK North Sea oil and gas revenues, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of UK public sector revenue and received 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments. Scotland’s population is 8.4 per cent of the UK total.

    We should be back into surplus this year (11-12) if not next as per up to 2009, what with growth edging upwards, public sector belts being tightened and oil prices back to normal levels following the late 08 into 09 crash associated with the recession.

    EDIT. Good, this is making the mainstream scottish news. Doubt the Daily Mail will run with it...

    http://news.stv.tv/p...ys-new-figures/

    ----------------------

    EDIT 2.

    Oor wee gold mine has platinum too it seems.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-17289065

    Scotgold Resources discover platinum at Tyndrum

    Scotgold said the geological conditions were "highly promising" and similar to those "observed in major deposits such as Aguablanca in Spain, and certain parts of the Sudbury mines in Ontario, Canada".

    I think it will fall a little short of being enough to pave Scotland's streets with gold, but nice all the same! Interesting to me particular as I studied gold hosting mesothermal orogenic quartz viens in Knapdale which were mined at times in the 17th and 18th centuries (http://eprints.gla.a..._geofluids4.pdf). The origins of them are clearer - Tyndrum does not belong to the same event and is something of a mystery still.

    There is evidence for diamonds too. Mentioned about 10 years ago. Not sure if anything is still happening with this.

    http://www.independe...sh-1128942.html

    Certainly, there are rocks in Scotland which originate at the correct depth for diamonds, e.g. ultramafic lamprophyre dyke swarms are quite common.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Hobart, Tasmania
  • Location: Hobart, Tasmania

    Is there much of an environmental movement in Scotland? I would be surprised if there was widespread support for big mining ventures there, even if it added to support for true economic independence.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Is there much of an environmental movement in Scotland? I would be surprised if there was widespread support for big mining ventures there, even if it added to support for true economic independence.

    What big mining adventures?

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    Posted
  • Location: Hobart, Tasmania
  • Location: Hobart, Tasmania

    It was a general question in relation to Scottish Skier's post above mine.

    Would new mines be socially acceptable, do Scots see it as an economic replacement to the North Sea oil reserves, which are obviously not sustainable

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    It was a general question in relation to Scottish Skier's post above mine.

    Would new mines be socially acceptable, do Scots see it as an economic replacement to the North Sea oil reserves, which are obviously not sustainable

    I very much doubt it. Mining reserves are somewhat limited in Scotland and in the UK. Perhaps gold in Scotland.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    The UK is blessed for it's size with mineral wealth.

    While we do not seem to have anything very rare, we do seem to have higher than average densities of common natural resources.

    Scotland anyway has oil, coal, gas, gold, silver, diamonds, platinum, copper, nikkel, sulphides,

    pyroxenite and syenite.

    Also has a lot of tidal power.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    It was a general question in relation to Scottish Skier's post above mine.

    Would new mines be socially acceptable, do Scots see it as an economic replacement to the North Sea oil reserves, which are obviously not sustainable

    Sorry, the mine in quesition is not huge - just a modest operation under strict environmental controls. There will not be huge craters appearing/tops of mountains being removed in the scottish highlands; hence my noting it will not 'pave the streets with gold'.

    The concept of having our own wee gold mine is nice; 'Scottish gold' (and maybe a little bit of platinum it seems) will sell well to tourists! I also wondered if it could open partly to tourists to visit the operation....

    Diamonds the same; they could be out there somehwere in modest amounts, but certainly not south africa style!

    The UK is blessed for it's size with mineral wealth.

    While we do not seem to have anything very rare, we do seem to have higher than average densities of common natural resources.

    Scotland anyway has oil, coal, gas, gold, silver, diamonds, platinum, copper, nikkel, sulphides,

    pyroxenite and syenite.

    Also has a lot of tidal power.

    This is true. The UK has very diverse geology for it's size, spanning effectively the entire geological column from 'recent' glacial deposits right back to ancient lewisian basement which is billions of years old. Helped inspire James Hutton, who is considered the father of modern geology.

    When he looked at this, he realised the world was not old, but very, very very old....

    Posted Image

    Heretic! http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png

    Known as 'Hutton's Unconformity', Siccar Point, Berwickshire.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton's_Unconformity

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    The UK is blessed for it's size with mineral wealth.

    While we do not seem to have anything very rare, we do seem to have higher than average densities of common natural resources.

    Scotland anyway has oil, coal, gas, gold, silver, diamonds, platinum, copper, nikkel, sulphides,

    pyroxenite and syenite.

    Also has a lot of tidal power.

    Leaving aside oil and gas the working economic mines are? Cornwall has pretty vast tin reserves but they will be staying in the ground even though tin is relatively scarce world wide. Of course the UK has, or should I say had , a tremendous array of mineral reserves. Copper being a prime example but copper mining in Cornwall finished in the mid 1860s, in Wales prior to that and in Cumbria not long after. South Wales in the 19th centry was the the copper smelting capital of the world, only recently has the area been cleared of pollution. with copper ore even being sent from Montana. But those days are long gone. Regarding Scotland, perhaps Cononish will be viable because of the price of gold but forget the rest.

    In short the heydays of mining in the UK were the 18th and 19th centuries when it fuelled the IR and the expansion of the empire.

    SS should Charles Lyell get a mention as well?

    Edited by weather ship
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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    In terms of family history, 1/4 Irish and 3/4 Scottish. No idea beyond that.

    I am Scottish for the same reasons someone from Denmark is Danish. I was born in Scotland and have lived most of my life in Scotland (Highlands, then Central, then Borders), bar a 5 year stint in Nigeria. I studied the Scottish curriculum (standard grades, highers), then did a Scottish 4 year honours degree course. I support Scotland at the football and rugby, painful as that may be most of the time. My number plate has a wee saltire on it alongside the EU flag; not put there by me, but quite standard. Both my names are Scottish and I have a kilt as appropriate...the list goes on. All these little things contribute to shape people's identity about who they are and where they live.

    My work rarely takes me to other parts of the UK as it is a Scottish industry in terms of the British isles. Most of my work travel is to the Middle East or the states. I pop into London only every so often with work (maybe once a year) so I’m not very familiar at all with it. Edinburgh, Glasgow etc I know well in contrast.

    I feel Scottish and European. The fact my wife is French - hence half my extended family and friends are too – I guess makes me identify more strongly as European. By circumstance, I spend more time in France than I do in other parts of the UK.

    I do have some memories ‘British’ things in my life when I was young (British Rail, Telecom, Gas, Steel, leyland etc). But as I grew up/became more aware of such things (e.g. started to think about the world, politics, history), they were disappearing rapidly from Scotland. By the time I came of voting age (just in time for the devolution referendum in 1997) they were largely all gone.

    With the re-opening of the Scottish Parliament, Scotland really started to become Scotland again and has become progressively more so since. As I’ve said before, there is little symbolism in Scotland today which indicates you are in a part of the UK. I can see 10’s of saltires, thistles, lion rampants during my day on signs and cars, lorries etc, but will only spot a union jack if I look hard enough, and most of the time that’s on a lorry up from England.

    Even local supermarkets are now going for saltires everywhere. One presumes putting saltires on stuff sells more...

    My local Asda/Tesco are both doing it, e.g.

    Posted Image

    I am one of the under 35 group (ok, well I’ve just left that group) who support independence in considerable majority (only the over 55's are strongly against). Why is it like this? Presumably for the above reasons; we have little or no memory of things British (empire, nationalised industry etc), and ‘came of age’ in a Scotland that has become nearly an independent nation again. Circumstance makes us what we are.

    Scotland has not been becoming more ‘Scottish’ per se – the primary identity of most Scots. Rather, the secondary ‘British’ identity has been progressively lost, with people likemyself never having really had such an identity, other that that's what my passport says.

    Edit. I guess I’m also quite an 'internationalist' too, which may have come from my student and work life.

    I’m sitting here in my office (coffee break I assure you!) with staff from Scotland, England, Iran, Venezula, France, China, Poland.... I love that aspect of my work environment – to learn about other countries, their cultures, politics etc first hand.

    --------------------

    EDIT and unrelated. GERS figures out. Looking no bad.

    http://www.scotland....omment-07032012

    Government and Expenditure Revenue Scotland 2010-11 (GERS), published today by the Chief Statistician, shows that, including a geographical share of UK North Sea oil and gas revenues, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of UK public sector revenue and received 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments. Scotland’s population is 8.4 per cent of the UK total.

    We should be back into surplus this year (11-12) if not next as per up to 2009, what with growth edging upwards, public sector belts being tightened and oil prices back to normal levels following the late 08 into 09 crash associated with the recession.

    EDIT. Good, this is making the mainstream scottish news. Doubt the Daily Mail will run with it...

    http://news.stv.tv/p...ys-new-figures/

    ----------------------

    EDIT 2.

    Oor wee gold mine has platinum too it seems.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-17289065

    Scotgold Resources discover platinum at Tyndrum

    Scotgold said the geological conditions were "highly promising" and similar to those "observed in major deposits such as Aguablanca in Spain, and certain parts of the Sudbury mines in Ontario, Canada".

    I think it will fall a little short of being enough to pave Scotland's streets with gold, but nice all the same! Interesting to me particular as I studied gold hosting mesothermal orogenic quartz viens in Knapdale which were mined at times in the 17th and 18th centuries (http://eprints.gla.a..._geofluids4.pdf). The origins of them are clearer - Tyndrum does not belong to the same event and is something of a mystery still.

    There is evidence for diamonds too. Mentioned about 10 years ago. Not sure if anything is still happening with this.

    http://www.independe...sh-1128942.html

    Certainly, there are rocks in Scotland which originate at the correct depth for diamonds, e.g. ultramafic lamprophyre dyke swarms are quite common.

    I agree with most of what you say. Like you I go to Europe quite a lot and feel or want to feel like a European. There is a real problem with being identified as British in Europe. They obviously primarily identify with the English Stereotypes, as to most Europeans British and English are the same. So there is a real identity crisis when a Scot goes to Europe with a British passport. It gets quite draining having to continually point out that you are Scottish but carry a British passport and are not English. The main things they identify with England/Britain are English football, anti european sentiment,lazy attitude to speaking other languages,poor and limited diet,drunkeness and poorly produced goods,bowler hats,cricket,Union Jacks. These have come up time and time again in discussions I have had. I have also witnessed English people not even attempting foreign languages in pubs,restaurants. Just the normal pleasantries hello ,thank you etc. There seems to be an expectation that everyone just speaks English. Scot's do this as well sometimes but it seems less frequent. The problem is I don't identify with these English Stereotypes in any sense what so ever. I do appreciate that a lot of English will not identify with most of these. None the less they are English stereotypes as much the same as Haggis,Whisky,meaness and Tartan are Scots stereotypes. So really I think it would be better if we Scots could carve our own identity in Europe which is identifiable initially with at least having our passport.
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    Posted
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL

    It is true that the English and probably the Scots aswell are ignorant when it comes to other langauges. But this is probably due to our education system not teaching us a foreign langauge until we reach secondary education. The earlier you start the better. That is why if you don't learn to read and write when you are young, you will have a hard time learning to do so later.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    RE...generalisations/stereotypes. No doubt we Scots have some of our own (seen in the eyes of others) which have an element of truth to them! Certainly, I don’t think Scots are particularly recognised for being multi-lingual…. Although I would agree that Europeans do tend to roll their eyes and say ‘Ah, Les Anglo Saxons’ [the English] when talking about Britain – not in a necessarily unfriendly way - which is based on age old stereotypes (some of which you mention, some truthful, some less so), but then the French have stereotypes for Germans, Spanish for the Portuguese and vice versa, etc…

    As noted, I do spend a lot of time in France and all too often people (when meeting them for the first time) say ‘You are English?’ or even once they know I am Scots forget and say ‘Oh yes, in England you like XYZ don’t you’ etc. I don’t find it particularly annoying, but it would be nice if this was not effectively the default case and part of that comes from Scotland being just a tiny proportion of Britain, making Britain to a large extent England. Certainly, when you correct people that you are Scots, they generally give a big smile/laugh, apologise and say ‘Ah les Ecossais!, oui!’ in a generally very welcoming manner. I don’t think that comes from Scots being some super popular people, but more due to their rarity (I mean in a supermarket in France, for every 11 voices speaking English someone hears, probability is that only one is Scots) and of course culture/history which people find interesting – that and of course Scots persistent determination for people to remember that they are Scots, not English or American!

    But yes, I would love to have a Scottish passport, or at least one that identified me as Scots. This could be done tomorrow even within the context of the current union, i.e. simply by adding the Words SCOTLAND below the UK of BG & NI text. Maybe even offer it in saltire blue.

    Incidentally, when the Union was first being looked into, Scotland wanted it to be a federal type one, not a unitary state. They even wanted to have the below flag for Scottish vessels etc, the aim being to say ‘Scottish, part of the UK Union’, with English vessels flying the current jack which would be stating ‘England, part of the Union’. This was not agreed by England who were adamant the St. Georges cross should dominate on the flag.

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  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL
  • Location: Walsall Wood, Walsall, West Midlands 145m ASL

    I remember seeing that version of the union flag in Simon Schama's book to accompany his BBC tv series 'A history of Britain'. Apparently it was a response to the current union flag (bar the addition of St Patrick's saltire in 1801) which scots felt from a distance would be dominated by the red of the cross of St George and that foreign ships wouldn't be able to tell that St Andrew's saltire was even featured. Needless to say when the union of parliaments occured in 1707 it was the 'English' version of the union flag which became the flag of the new state/kingdom.

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  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Same with the Royal Navy flag that is openly an English flag with a Union flag in one quarter. Who agreed that one! I think in Scotland it should be a Saltire with a union flag while we remain in the UK.

    I feel like carrying a map around with me in europe showing what eaxactly the UK is and how England is a country of the UK rather than another name for the UK. The problem I have is that a lot of the world actually believes Scotland is a region of England. This is never corrected when you hear foreign people talking about England when on national TV and chat shows. They are in England of course but the broadcast goes to the whole of the UK. When I went to see Itally playing Scotland. An italian fan actually asked me "What is the difference between Scotland and England. I had to explain that it was not a personal choice and that England and Scotland formed the UK with Wales and N Ireland. To describe Scotland as England is no more correct than calling Greece Italy. He began to understand but still thought that England was a name for the British isles which is just factually incorrect not someone being pedantic.

    UK%2520Royal%2520Navy%2520board.jpg%3F1293529689

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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    An interesting development.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17302044

    Scottish independence: STUC backs SNP referendum terms

    Labour (and the other unionist parties) going to be peed off at this; STUC backing both the timing of the referendum, extending the vote to 16-17 year olds, and saying they support a potential second (e.g. Devo Max) Q on the Ballot.

    Civic Scotland starting to make it's presence felt in the debate.

    Strangely, something amiss in the pic next to the BBC article. Where are the other two three flags? (sorry WS, corrected http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png ).

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  • Location: New York City
  • Location: New York City

    Is the white border on the St George's cross in the union flag from the Cornish St Piran's cross?

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  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Is the white border on the St George's cross in the union flag from the Cornish St Piran's cross?

    Well St Piran's flag is the flag of Cornwall, white cross on a black background. Not to be confused with St. Piran's cross itself which is very old celtic cross. Actually it's all a bit complicated. Wiki has a bit about it and another link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Piran%27s_Flag

    http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=7735

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