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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Hot sunny summers, cold snowy winters
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL

    or you could put it the other way and say if someone is silly enough to believe the letter why would child and housing benefit go they already fit in our spending, pensions have already been assured by the DWP, I don't see how mortgages or rent would rise either as if its a currency union these would be in line with the rest of the UK so no change and even at a pegged currency these wouldn't change drastically at all, the plan B on currency is settled it will be the pound on a 1:1 pegged basis darling said we cant be stopped from using the pound, no jobs will leave businesses have already stated this and paying for the NHS well don't we already do this.

     

    there you go answers for the lot now if I can do that from watching the debates why cant labour see these because there lying they only want a no vote because they think with a YES the tories and UKIP will end them as a party and they will never win power again you don't really think Gordon brown wants to help us do you he had time to do that and did nothing.

    Of course you can carry on using the pound whether there is a currency union or not. But without a currency union you certainly won't be 1:1.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    My pension has already been rubbished by the banks, corporate greed, forced into annuities that think it fair I should have to live to 130yr old before I get a return, inflation and a UK government that takes a tax hit on money that I have already earned and paid tax on. Don't even get me started on QE and the ludicrous interest rates for savers!

    Independance? - Bring it on!

    But there will be a new pension black hole post independence for some. EU law states all cross border pensions must be fully funded and many are not by £billions like RBS.

    We know why as you point out from corporate greed to Gordon Brown's 1997 pension robbing budget but it is a new black hole that will ONLY arise due to independence and by EU law MUST be fixed.

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    Of course you can carry on using the pound whether there is a currency union or not. But without a currency union you certainly won't be 1:1.

     

     

    yes it will be 1:1 just like any other place using it like isle of man, Guernsey, Jersey and Gibraltar and same as other nations in the world that use anothers currency you can choose a 1:1 pegged basis or a floating currency its your choice.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Yes your right it seems very poorly balanced to me...

     

    Scotland population = 8.4% of total Uk population

    Scotland's economical input = 8.3% of UK GDP

    Scotland's share of public spending = 9.2% or 10% more per head of average UK resident

     

    As for bitterness to the core?? why should I pay out of my pocket for all the adjustments and changes that will be made if there is a break?

    I wont get to vote on it so why should I pay?

     

    Can you not be proud to be Scottish and British like I am proud to be welsh and British?

     

    As for equality,we live in a capitalist world are you not being naïve to think independence will bring equality? Some will still get more than others as always happens and I can assure you if it goes belly up Alex Salmond will not go hungry

     

    If Scotland is such a hinderance, why do you want to keep us?

     

    I'll tell you why.

     

    For nearly every single one of the last 33 years Scotland has run a budget SURPLUS, yet the current Uk debt is now over ONE TRILLION POUNDS.

     

    That's why you need us.

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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    or you could put it the other way and say if someone is silly enough to believe the letter why would child and housing benefit go they already fit in our spending, pensions have already been assured by the DWP, I don't see how mortgages or rent would rise either as if its a currency union these would be in line with the rest of the UK so no change and even at a pegged currency these wouldn't change drastically at all, the plan B on currency is settled it will be the pound on a 1:1 pegged basis darling said we cant be stopped from using the pound, no jobs will leave businesses have already stated this and paying for the NHS well don't we already do this.

     

    There you go with the rose-tinted spectacles. The SNP future projections are all based on optimistic assumption, not on firmly-understood future costings. All of these things - benefits, pensions, the NHS - will have to be funded from a budget that will be squeezed at the mercy of international markets, the whim of big business and speculators, and fluctuations of oil-prices. You can't say what'll happen to interest- or mortage-rates, because there is no Plan B on currency - just Plans B, C,D, E etc. Pensions have not been 'assured' by DWP, because they'll be funded after Independence by Scottish Government, and will need to be funded from within the budget as a whole. So if the budget tanks, pensions - more probably for future rather than current pensioners - will be under pressure too.

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    Posted
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Hot sunny summers, cold snowy winters
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL

    yes it will be 1:1 just like any other place using it like isle of man, Guernsey, Jersey and Gibraltar and same as other nations in the world that use anothers currency you can choose a 1:1 pegged basis or a floating currency its your choice.

    So you will be at the mercy of rUK monetary policy then, strange independence that!

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    Posted
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snow and summer heatwaves.
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon

    where do you get your 8.3% GDP from considering standard and poors has us with a higher GDP than the rest of the UK.

     

    I stand corrected that should have said 8.3% of tax revenue not gdp however here is a interesting link.

     

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/economy/index.html

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    50 years of Oil divided by 5.3 million = wealthy. 50 Years of oil divided by 60 million = poor.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    There you go with the rose-tinted spectacles. The SNP future projections are all based on optimistic assumption, not on firmly-understood future costings. All of these things - benefits, pensions, the NHS - will have to be funded from a budget that will be squeezed at the mercy of international markets, the whim of big business and speculators, and fluctuations of oil-prices. You can't say what'll happen to interest- or mortage-rates, because there is no Plan B on currency - just Plans B, C,D, E etc. Pensions have not been 'assured' by DWP, because they'll be funded after Independence by Scottish Government, and will need to be funded from within the budget as a whole. So if the budget tanks, pensions - more probably for future rather than current pensioners - will be under pressure too.

     

     

    plz go and look up DWP or contact them to ask and they will tell you that pensions have been assured and the plan B on currency has been sorted during one of the debates when salmond said we will use the pound then the moderator asked darling if no currency union can we still use it and darling said yes and salmond replied well there you go so plan B is the pound and everything you have mentioned about markets and oil is the same issues we would have as part of the UK so what exactly is your point there?

     

    Westminster go on about an aging population for pensions life expectancy in Scotland is less than the rUK so are you sure they aren't worried about our pensioners propping up theres.

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    Does one have any upper class?

    Not for long.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    So you will be at the mercy of rUK monetary policy then, strange independence that!

     

     

    no because it wouldn't be a currency union plz go and read up about it a bit

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    I am not voting for a currency I am voting for independence. We can agree and disagree over currency post yes. It will be Sterling but not forever as governments come and go. I tend to look at the big thing first which is getting on the bus. If we stand at the queue the bus will leave without us.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    I stand corrected that should have said 8.3% of tax revenue not gdp however here is a interesting link.

     

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/economy/index.html

     

     

    sorry I would rather listen to standards and poors a world renowned economic rating agency than a publicly funded UK body

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    So you will be at the mercy of rUK monetary policy then, strange independence that!

    We are already at the mercy of UK monetary policy. The difference is now we'll have access to our massive resources and capital.

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    Posted
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Hot sunny summers, cold snowy winters
  • Location: Longlevens, 16m ASL / Bradley Stoke, 75m ASL

    no because it wouldn't be a currency union plz go and read up about it a bit

    No. Really please you go and educate yourself. Here is somewhere to start with.

     

    “Sterlingisationâ€

    First of all, Scotland could continue to use sterling on a unilateral basis – indeed, any country could use it, without the UK’s consent. However, the necessary sterling would have to be earned through trade surpluses. Scotland would not be able to issue sterling banknotes, nor would it have a central bank to “backstop†its financial institutions. It would also be bound into the monetary and exchange rate policies that the remainder of the UK chose to adopt.

    But there may be even more fundamental problems. As Olli Rehn has recently pointed out, sterlingisation would be inconsistent with Scotland’s application for EU membership. The accession arrangements now commit all incoming EU Member States to joining the euro at some point. Scotland could not deliver on such a commitment because it would have no central bank and would be unable to join the EU’s exchange rate mechanism. The process also ultimately involves the substitution of the euro for the currency of the incoming Eurozone state – impossible, if Scotland does not have its own currency. Some Member States have deferred Eurozone membership by various means, but none have positively disqualified themselves from it. Sterlingisation would disqualify Scotland – it could never fulfil the Eurozone entry criteria. Scotland’s application for EU membership would thus depend upon an exemption from the EU’s core project to which all other incoming Member States have been required to subscribe. Under current conditions, the EU will not wish to give Scotland a UK-style “opt-out†from the single currency. Sterlingisation would thus be a major obstacle to EU membership.

     

    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/09/10/1963991/scotland-and-sterling-whose-currency-is-it-anyway/

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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    Anyone understand how Scotland's independence will push up prices at the local Asda? :cc_confused:

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    If Scotland is such a hinderance, why do you want to keep us?

     

    I'll tell you why.

     

    For nearly every single one of the last 33 years Scotland has run a budget SURPLUS, yet the current Uk debt is now over ONE TRILLION POUNDS.

     

    That's why you need us.

     

    Why is it all about finance? Many of us don't want to lose you because we are British and feel the whole of the UK is our country. We can do "heart" as well, you know.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    No. Really please you go and educate yourself. Here is somewhere to start with.

     

    “Sterlingisationâ€

    First of all, Scotland could continue to use sterling on a unilateral basis – indeed, any country could use it, without the UK’s consent. However, the necessary sterling would have to be earned through trade surpluses. Scotland would not be able to issue sterling banknotes, nor would it have a central bank to “backstop†its financial institutions. It would also be bound into the monetary and exchange rate policies that the remainder of the UK chose to adopt.

    But there may be even more fundamental problems. As Olli Rehn has recently pointed out, sterlingisation would be inconsistent with Scotland’s application for EU membership. The accession arrangements now commit all incoming EU Member States to joining the euro at some point. Scotland could not deliver on such a commitment because it would have no central bank and would be unable to join the EU’s exchange rate mechanism. The process also ultimately involves the substitution of the euro for the currency of the incoming Eurozone state – impossible, if Scotland does not have its own currency. Some Member States have deferred Eurozone membership by various means, but none have positively disqualified themselves from it. Sterlingisation would disqualify Scotland – it could never fulfil the Eurozone entry criteria. Scotland’s application for EU membership would thus depend upon an exemption from the EU’s core project to which all other incoming Member States have been required to subscribe. Under current conditions, the EU will not wish to give Scotland a UK-style “opt-out†from the single currency. Sterlingisation would thus be a major obstacle to EU membership.

     

    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/09/10/1963991/scotland-and-sterling-whose-currency-is-it-anyway/

     

     

    so we are back to listening to articles in papers from anti independence newspapers

    Anyone understand how Scotland's independence will push up prices at the local Asda? :cc_confused:

     

     

    theres nothing to say it will asda have came out since saying prices would go up and said prices could also drop in an independent Scotland as they had to answer to pressure placed upon them after there initial statement

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    Posted
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent
    Buriedundersnow, on 15 Sept 2014 - 15:23, said:

    so we are back to listening to articles in papers from anti independence newspapers

    Are they less valid than articles supporting independence? Seems to me, it's one of the most reasoned articles I've read. I await your point by point rebuttal.

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    Posted
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snow and summer heatwaves.
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon

    Anyone understand how Scotland's independence will push up prices at the local Asda? :cc_confused:

     

    It should drop UK prices as they will no longer be subsidising the Scottish stores higher travel costs there?

    Why is it all about finance? Many of us don't want to lose you because we are British and feel the whole of the UK is our country. We can do "heart" as well, you know.

     

     

    I wasn't saying the scots are hindrance I was just replying to your previous post about equal distribution of public money etc and it isn't about 'keeping' Scotland but more about national pride in what we have as a nation have achieved and could continue to do so as a union.

     

    This is the problem Nick they seem to think we are all personally after 'their oil' when aIl myself and many care about the UK.

    Edited by mullender83
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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    plz go and look up DWP or contact them to ask and they will tell you that pensions have been assured

    Yes, pensions have been assured, and it's been agreed that Scottish Government will be funding them! So ability to deliver future payment of pensions becomes the responsibility of Scottish Government, and nothing to do with DWP, who will be disappearing from Scotland along with all of the other rUK machinery of government. Ability to deliver will come from Scottish Government's ability (or inability) to make overall budgets balance.

     

    And don't get me started on start-up costs...

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    Posted
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snow and summer heatwaves.
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon

    50 years of Oil divided by 5.3 million = wealthy. 50 Years of oil divided by 60 million = poor.

     

    :rofl:  :rofl:

     

    You think the average Joe will see any of that money filter down?

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    The supermarket prices can go up in the UK as well. Its just an observation of any economy. But Bus is correct Asda corrected the government saying they said prices may go up or down. It just depends what part of a statement you choose to use. With regards to currency if Scotland uses Sterling outwith formal agreement. It will be down to the RUK refusing not the Scottish Gov asking. We will use Sterling for a few years and then create our own currency. You would honestly think that the UK is the only country in the world with a currency. It's actually not that important.

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    Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    The EU debate is interesting and the position of Scotland within Europe will lead to another avenue, much more debate, similarly the position of rUK in EU should it transpire like this is also another massive unknown.

    This is where risk vs. reward comes in. For me the Yes isn't for today, tomorrow, next month or even next year. I am thinking probably five to ten years ahead where I have the belief with our own govt the future provided will be a better one than the option of status quo, I read about the negatives of independence all the time, I have not read any positive stories other than x or y would be horrendous for Scotland. This turned me off the no vote initially, reading into things then led me to yes.

    I would rather take a fiscal hit for inddpendence now in order for it to be of greater benefit to my kids. If that means more taxes then yes am also prepared to deal with that too. It's not a panacea or land of milk and honey where all ills are cured, I think this falsehood is evident in some of the social media hype. It will be tough with tough choices. Scotland is a small, wealthy country , GDP tables illustrate it would rebound well from any supposed economic apocalypse, flight,restructure.

    I firmly see this as a generational change for the next generation.

    It's not all blind faith and blinkers, there is a lot of compelling evidence out there to underline why independence is a great opportunity, granted there is equal evidence of caution with the future. Guess this is why we are at 50:50.

    In relation to Devo max and the structure of the ballot am sure others can argue points on these better. I do empathise though with the position that our nations vote decides the future of the union, and it may feell that other residents of UK don't get a say. What I would say is that, UK govt agreed the structure of the ballot paper so the black and white choice has forced this union to divide or not as a rsult of this vote.

    I would say Tony that this is one of the more considered YES posts, from my working out I reckon it will take at least a whole generation before any benefit works through to an Independent Scotland. Not with you, but with others in this thread, there seems to be a type of xenophobic attitude, that as long as Scotland is indepedent then everything will work out so it is refreshing to see a more realistic based approach. I still think that there are too many unknowns to work out, the EU is just one. The currency, the shift of jobs further south -especially those linked to the defence, the defence of Scotland are just a few.

    Edited by chionomaniac
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