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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    My boss at work voted no. 3 Kids voted yes and his wife. Interesting division in that household.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    Personally i'm absolutely no fan of the Tories or UKIP or any of the 'elite' who want to take us out of Europe. I want to stay in that union as much as i want to stay in the UK. My own view used to be any EU referendum would lose but seeing how the Yes arguments for separation have resonated with so many people (for sound reasons, i just don't agree with them) you fear the same thing will happen with the EU

     

    I'm worried about my salary, my mortgage, kids education etc. What i've said here before back in March still holds true, if an iScotland was going for true independence, with it's own currency and its own central bank I think i could absolutely get behind it but whats being offered wont be independence. Currency union wont happen (even if the rUK wanted to backtrack, which they wont, the 'sovereign will' of 55m people will be totally against it) ,and Sterlingisation will be less independence than we have now plus a shed load more risk. I keep asking myself why aren't they going for that option? Do they not believe in it, do they not think the voters believe in it? Things like the banks, supermarkets , BBC etc is all negative noise - and hasn't swayed my opinion at all

     

    If we end up with Devo-Max i'll be happy with that

     

     

    I'd be surprised if there weren't quite a few Yes voters worrid about the same thibgs as you. I have one kid in her 2nd year at uni, another who's just left school and is working beside me, and a third still at primary. I worry what will happen with all of them. I've also experienced losing my job in the past with the stress and upheaval that caused, and to have owned houses through 2 property value 'dips'. It's all a worry because the truth is we don't know 10 yrs down the line what independence will have brought, but the same can be said of keeping the union. Personally I just do not feel the UK is heading in the direction I'd hope for, nor can I see that changing sadly. For that reason I've accepted the risk that independence will undoubtedly involve in the hope that at least in Scotland we can improve our society.

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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    My boss at work voted no. 3 Kids voted yes and his wife. Interesting division in that household.

     Tell me about it. My husband and son are almost at the point of coming to blows over the subject. So much for a peaceful democratic evolution!

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

     I take your yes-voting granny and raise it. My 93 - yo mother is not only a firm no, but keeps arguing with my (yes-voting) brother on the subject. He's not for changing, but neither is she ;-).

    Which underlines how important true debate is for both sides. I'm YES for many reasons I have already said. My neighbour is NO as he is concerned his work has several facilities across the UK and could relocate if there are increased cost associated with remaining in Scotland. We both have valid arguments but can still be friendly and rational when talking about  the various issues.

     

    This vote will be a victory for democracy whichever way it goes.

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    I take your yes-voting granny and raise it. My 93 - yo mother is not only a firm no, but keeps arguing with my (yes-voting) brother on the subject. He's not for changing, but neither is she ;-).

    My point was that my granny was bucking the trend, yours isn't ;)

    My other granny voted No because she heard that she'll lose her pension and that prices will be as high as Norway. Good one Better Together.

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    See i completely agree with this but i believe (maybe naively) that we are better trying to fix this as a nation rather than trying to get rid of the status quo by separating and the potential risk that brings to all of us. I know people in the North, the SW, Wales etc must as p**ed off as everyone here is and I think the genie is out of the bottle now and as many have said (inc Milliband) we have to reform the political system in this country and distribute wealth and services nationally

     

    Well maybe if Friday does bring us a No vote it'll have been enough of a jolt to the UK political system to ensure that change happens. I have my doubts though, there's too much personal power and wealth rolled up the UK's current politcal make-up for those with the ability to institute change to want to do so.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Yes I do think threatening old people that pensions would be taken away is a low blow even for the no campaign. We know that current pensions are protected.

    Edited by November13
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

     Tell me about it. My husband and son are almost at the point of coming to blows over the subject. So much for a peaceful democratic evolution!

    I wouldn't worry about it, Sons and fathers have always fallen out whether it be about the length of hair or what time to come in at. Look on the 'discussion' as an extension of that. lol

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    Posted
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and storms
  • Location: Hayward’s Heath - home, Brighton/East Grinstead - work.

    My mother, wife, brother, sister,  friends all can't vote and yet the decision will still affect them.....

    Edited by chionomaniac
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    My mother, wife, brother, sister, friends all can't vote and yet the decision will still affect them.....

    They shouldn't get to vote on the matter. Causality and political agency are different. Would you suggest that all other EU citizens get a vote in the in-out referendum in 2017?

    The question is one of autonomy, how exactly could the vote be fair if it was made by those who do not live and work in Scotland?

    Edited by NorthernRab
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    My mother, wife, brother, sister,  friends all can't vote and yet the decision will still affect them.....

    It would have affected them less had Devo-Max been an option but PM Cameron thought he could walk a NO vote and bury Scotland forever. Now we have a reluctant  Saltire flying over Downing St because he thinks he can pretend to be a proud tartan jock defending Scotland where as he must be weeing in his kilt by now.

     

    Please do not complain about Holyrood, take your concerns to No. 10

     

    BTW, even if Devo Max had been on the ballot I would still have been Indy.

    Edited by frogesque
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

     Tell me about it. My husband and son are almost at the point of coming to blows over the subject. So much for a peaceful democratic evolution!

     

    Well I daren't even bring the subject up with my wife these days or she gets all ultra defensive. I even have to try to change the subject if our 7yr old brings up the referendum! Normally she's quite an open and rational person but even though I fully respect her views and her right to vote No it's somewhat iritating not to be able to discuss it. Anyway I can discuss it with our daughter and older son. He's a definate Yes, and although the daughter says she's undecided I'm sure she's Yes leaning (all I need to do on Thursday is mention UKIP and she'll run off to the polling station, frothing at the mouth, and vote Yes).

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    I know a guy that was no until Saturday. The Orange order in the paper in Edinburgh was enough to convince him to vote yes. I wonder how many more people the Orange order have done this to.

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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    I wouldn't worry about it, Sons and fathers have always fallen out whether it be about the length of hair or what time to come in at. Look on the 'discussion' as an extension of that. lol

     

    True, but in this case my laid-back biddable son has never stood up to his quite 'assertive' father before. However on this (son's a 'yes') he appears to feel strongly enough to have fuelled a series of increasingly bad-tempered arguments, including threats to leave home (!). On the other hand my feisty argumentative daughter who constantly goes head-to-head with her dad, agrees with him utterly on this - it's actually brought them together -  and instead spends all her time bemoaning the stupidity of her (yes-supporting) friends at school. She's in sixth year and not shown any interest in politics until now. Second son is keeping his own counsel, but has told me he's (probably) 'no' and too ashamed to admit it to any of his friends.

     

    I reckon I've got a complete spectrum of opinion, just within my own family! Suspect many others are exactly the same. Whatever the rights and wrongs of all of this, it seems to have radicalised a huge number of people. Still not sure whether that's good or bad, based on my own experience...

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    Well I daren't even bring the subject up with my wife these days or she gets all ultra defensive. I even have to try to change the subject if our 7yr old brings up the referendum! Normally she's quite an open and rational person but even though I fully respect her views and her right to vote No it's somewhat iritating not to be able to discuss it. Anyway I can discuss it with our daughter and older son. He's a definate Yes, and although the daughter says she's undecided I'm sure she's Yes leaning (all I need to do on Thursday is mention UKIP and she'll run off to the polling station, frothing at the mouth, and vote Yes).

    Aye, there's divorce and then there is D.I.V.O.R.C.E. lol

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    post-18233-0-42295600-1410787587_thumb.j

     

    and this is why I am voting YES a letter from labour and not one single word about anything we will see for voting no just full of the same old lies about pensions and housing benefit and child benefit do they really think we are that stupid

     

    post-18233-0-29372200-1410787599_thumb.j

     

    and of course look at Quebec when they had there referendum they were promised this and that and got absolutely nothing and we have already seen that tory back benchers will stop us getting any new powers so we will still have all our oil money taken and be left with the same crap we have where at least the YES camp are giving a real vision and its not like we cant see what they are offering lt's already going on in other countries and like they say you tell me one country with oil that is poor

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    Posted
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snow and summer heatwaves.
  • Location: Now moved to tropical Bradford on Avon

    That's the thing Mullender, where is this unity?, for me a Union is an equal partnership, yet this is not an equal Union, not by a long shot. I do think some posters on here cannot fathom the depth of feeling in Scotland for massive change in the Union. Remember over 70% want devo max and only 18% would join the Union if they had the choice.

     

    As for your last comment, well that's just bitterness to the core.

     

    Yes your right it seems very poorly balanced to me...

     

    Scotland population = 8.4% of total Uk population

    Scotland's economical input = 8.3% of UK GDP

    Scotland's share of public spending = 9.2% or 10% more per head of average UK resident

     

    As for bitterness to the core?? why should I pay out of my pocket for all the adjustments and changes that will be made if there is a break?

    I wont get to vote on it so why should I pay?

     

    Can you not be proud to be Scottish and British like I am proud to be welsh and British?

     

    As for equality,we live in a capitalist world are you not being naïve to think independence will bring equality? Some will still get more than others as always happens and I can assure you if it goes belly up Alex Salmond will not go hungry.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Bus I think we have won the working class vote. We will struggle in middle class areas. But then the majority of Scots are not middle class despite what some would have us believe. I reckon working class vote is 60% yes and middle class 45%. We will win on those numbers.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Bus I think we have won the working class vote. We will struggle in middle class areas. But then the majority of Scots are not middle class despite what some would have us believe. I reckon working class vote is 60% yes and middle class 45%. We will win on those numbers.

    Does one have any upper class?

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Oh as another comment about the Orange Order. My boss's son said he had voted with the Orange order when voting no. So people are aligning the Orange vote with the no vote whether no like it or not.


    Upper class in Scotland is less than 10% Kiwi.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    Bus I think we have won the working class vote. We will struggle in middle class areas. But then the majority of Scots are not middle class despite what some would have us believe. I reckon working class vote is 60% yes and middle class 45%. We will win on those numbers.

     

     

    aye here's hoping and IF (see that AJ :rofl: ) we get the YES vote on Thursday night or Friday morning I think once everything is settled out a lot of no voters will be saying we were right to vote YES once we get the plans in place for what the new Scotland will be going forward

    Edited by Buriedundersnow
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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    ...and we have already seen that tory back benchers will stop us getting any new powers so we will still have all our oil money taken and be left with the same crap we have

     Scaremongering much BUS? I think everything in that letter is true, and absolutely good reasons to vote no if you're not seeing everything through rose-tinted spectacles. 

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    Yes your right it seems very poorly balanced to me...

     

    Scotland population = 8.4% of total Uk population

    Scotland's economical input = 8.3% of UK GDP

    Scotland's share of public spending = 9.2% or 10% more per head of average UK resident

     

    As for bitterness to the core?? why should I pay out of my pocket for all the adjustments and changes that will be made if there is a break?

    I wont get to vote on it so why should I pay?

     

    Can you not be proud to be Scottish and British like I am proud to be welsh and British?

     

    As for equality,we live in a capitalist world are you not being naïve to think independence will bring equality? Some will still get more than others as always happens and I can assure you if it goes belly up Alex Salmond will not go hungry.

     

     

    where do you get your 8.3% GDP from considering standard and poors has us with a higher GDP than the rest of the UK.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

     Scaremongering much BUS? I think everything in that letter is true, and absolutely good reasons to vote no if you're not seeing everything through rose-tinted spectacles. 

     

     

    or you could put it the other way and say if someone is silly enough to believe the letter why would child and housing benefit go they already fit in our spending, pensions have already been assured by the DWP, I don't see how mortgages or rent would rise either as if its a currency union these would be in line with the rest of the UK so no change and even at a pegged currency these wouldn't change drastically at all, the plan B on currency is settled it will be the pound on a 1:1 pegged basis darling said we cant be stopped from using the pound, no jobs will leave businesses have already stated this and paying for the NHS well don't we already do this.

     

    there you go answers for the lot now if I can do that from watching the debates why cant labour see these because there lying they only want a no vote because they think with a YES the tories and UKIP will end them as a party and they will never win power again you don't really think Gordon brown wants to help us do you he had time to do that and did nothing.

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    Posted
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh

    I'd be surprised if there weren't quite a few Yes voters worrid about the same thibgs as you. I have one kid in her 2nd year at uni, another who's just left school and is working beside me, and a third still at primary. I worry what will happen with all of them. I've also experienced losing my job in the past with the stress and upheaval that caused, and to have owned houses through 2 property value 'dips'. It's all a worry because the truth is we don't know 10 yrs down the line what independence will have brought, but the same can be said of keeping the union. Personally I just do not feel the UK is heading in the direction I'd hope for, nor can I see that changing sadly. For that reason I've accepted the risk that independence will undoubtedly involve in the hope that at least in Scotland we can improve our society.

     

    Excellent point, well made - in truth i think a lot of people want the same things but disagree on how we get there. I have to say having been a clear No voter since the summer, the shambolic last minute intervention of the Westminster politico's, who have had 2 years to get engaged in this debate and turned down Devo-Max as they clearly thought they would walk it, has tested that resolve. I will still vote No but if the result is a Yes i cant say i'd be massively disappointed either, although i'll be crossing everything that my family's financial future isnt under threat

    Edited by JoeShmoe
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