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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    really because he is loved by many up here

    I was referring to my neck of the woods BUS  :acute:  :wink:

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    just to add, there's a few personal digs starting to creep into this debate.....let's keep it friendly folks (or at least as friendly as possible considering the polarized viewpoints)

     

     

    there hasn't been any personal digs has there

    I was referring to my neck of the woods BUS  :acute:  :wink:

     

     

    I don't think he will be too bothered about that plenty of people hate other countries politicians

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Nick R you obviously have a personal gripe with anything I say. It isn't aggressive to point out someone is making things up to create division.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    as mentioned before Scotland cannot join the euro.

    ..but as a new member state, if it becomes one, it must make attempts to do so long term.

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    Posted
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh

    Hi Joe,

     

    Do you like the idea of British Nationalism then? and what about the unknown risks of remaining in the Union? A possible EU referendum is of far more gravity than Scotland becoming independent. Then there are the risks of a cut in the Barnett formula etc..

     

    It is good to hear from a No voter though.

     

    Personally i'm absolutely no fan of the Tories or UKIP or any of the 'elite' who want to take us out of Europe. I want to stay in that union as much as i want to stay in the UK. My own view used to be any EU referendum would lose but seeing how the Yes arguments for separation have resonated with so many people (for sound reasons, i just don't agree with them) you fear the same thing will happen with the EU

     

    I'm worried about my salary, my mortgage, kids education etc. What i've said here before back in March still holds true, if an iScotland was going for true independence, with it's own currency and its own central bank I think i could absolutely get behind it but whats being offered wont be independence. Currency union wont happen (even if the rUK wanted to backtrack, which they wont, the 'sovereign will' of 55m people will be totally against it) ,and Sterlingisation will be less independence than we have now plus a shed load more risk. I keep asking myself why aren't they going for that option? Do they not believe in it, do they not think the voters believe in it? Things like the banks, supermarkets , BBC etc is all negative noise - and hasn't swayed my opinion at all

     

    If we end up with Devo-Max i'll be happy with that

     

    I also hope, whatever happens, we all wake up on the 19th, accept the result and get on with it but sadly i think both in scotland itself and with rUK were now pretty divided and that's a real shame

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Where did AS's "the pound is a millstone around Scotland's neck and we will have the Euro as part of the Ireland, Iceland etc Arc of prosperity" go to ?

    Leopards do change their spits to suit the political wind..

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Ark..or arc even!

    Now editted .damn auto correct.

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    Personally i'm absolutely no fan of the Tories or UKIP or any of the 'elite' who want to take us out of Europe. I want to stay in that union as much as i want to stay in the UK. My own view used to be any EU referendum would lose but seeing how the Yes arguments for separation have resonated with so many people (for sound reasons, i just don't agree with them) you fear the same thing will happen with the EU

     

    I'm worried about my salary, my mortgage, kids education etc. What i've said here before back in March still holds true, if an iScotland was going for true independence, with it's own currency and its own central bank I think i could absolutely get behind it but whats being offered wont be independence. Currency union wont happen (even if the rUK wanted to backtrack, which they wont, the 'sovereign will' of 55m people will be totally against it) ,and Sterlingisation will be less independence than we have now plus a shed load more risk. I keep asking myself why aren't they going for that option? Do they not believe in it, do they not think the voters believe in it? Things like the banks, supermarkets , BBC etc is all negative noise - and hasn't swayed my opinion at all

     

    If we end up with Devo-Max i'll be happy with that

     

    I also hope, whatever happens, we all wake up on the 19th, accept the result and get on with it but sadly i think both in scotland itself and with rUK were now pretty divided and that's a real shame

     

    With you completely, Joe. Contrary to what many 'yes' supporters believe, not all of the negative BT stuff on things like pension-security and share of debt is untrue.

     

    I applaud those high-minded individuals who're prepared to sacrifice their own financial and physical security for the - supposed - benefit of future generations in iScotland. But I know very many people, mostly older, who are really concerned about the security of their pensions and their small savings which are tied to stock-market performance. Try telling them that their own degraded standard of living, over the next five years, will be worth it for 'future generations'.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    An interesting piece from Iain McWhirter in yesterday's Sunday Herald, finally coming out as a YES voter. He has been fairly balanced up until now:

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/why-isnt-project-fear-working-take-a-bow-george-osborne.25314691

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    a) Is it?, you should direct your ire at your politicians who have let this come to pass. Scotland will not be denied by threats of bitter reactions to a Yes vote. This a childish reaction.

    b) Agreed, but the pragmatist in me believes that the two countries best interests will be best served by working together for the greater good of the populace of both countries.  Scotland is England's 2nd biggest trading partner and England is Scotland's biggest trading partner. Why the hell would any politicians let bitterness come between ensuring that the wealth generated by that trade continues? Is it absolute nonsense and you know it.

     

    Would your rather your fellow English citizens got poorer just to annoy those nasty Jocks?

    a) You can argue it's childish until your blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that this is how many will react.

    b) I think you are being naive to think that the UK's best interests and Scotland's best interests are one and the same.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    With you completely, Joe. Contrary to what many 'yes' supporters believe, not all of the negative BT stuff on things like pension-security and share of debt is untrue.

     

    I applaud those high-minded individuals who're prepared to sacrifice their own financial and physical security for the - supposed - benefit of future generations in iScotland. But I know very many people, mostly older, who are really concerned about the security of their pensions and their small savings which are tied to stock-market performance. Try telling them that their own degraded standard of living, over the next five years, will be worth it for 'future generations'.

     

    For many younger people there's not the same worry about pensions. We're being told we'll have to work for far longer than previous generations and that pensions in their current format are unsustainable. The end result is that there's a feeling of there not being much to worry about losing. I completely agree about the older generation having these worries about their standard of living, and this is reflected in the core NO vote being found in the older generation.

     

    There is a huge debate to be had about the affluence of the older generation, compared to the current generation....do we dare open that can of worms? :)

    Edited by CatchMyDrift
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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Nick R you obviously have a personal gripe with anything I say. It isn't aggressive to point out someone is making things up to create division.

     

    I do not have a personal gripe with you.

     

    Several posters have commented that you come over as unnecessarily aggressive. This isn't just me. When several different people say the same thing independently, it might be worth stopping to consider whether they might have a point.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Beverley, East Yorks. (2 metres a.s.l.)
  • Weather Preferences: Something good in all four seasons
  • Location: Near Beverley, East Yorks. (2 metres a.s.l.)

     

    b) I think you are being naive to think that the UK's best interests and Scotland's best interests are one and the same.

     

    Isn't that an argument for voting YES ? 

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    I do not have a personal gripe with you.

     

    Several posters have commented that you come over as unnecessarily aggressive. This isn't just me. When several different people say the same thing independently, it might be worth stopping to consider whether they might have a point.

    Give it a rest Nick you are sounding like you can't handle robust debate. It's politics Nick not for the faint hearted. I have received several cheeky,agressive,biased and insulting comments over the years on here. Take it on the chin if you are going to debate.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Isn't that an argument for voting YES ? 

    Perhaps not identical but similar. I'm talking about trade here and not things such as health, social justice etc..

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    With you completely, Joe. Contrary to what many 'yes' supporters believe, not all of the negative BT stuff on things like pension-security and share of debt is untrue.

     

    I applaud those high-minded individuals who're prepared to sacrifice their own financial and physical security for the - supposed - benefit of future generations in iScotland. But I know very many people, mostly older, who are really concerned about the security of their pensions and their small savings which are tied to stock-market performance. Try telling them that their own degraded standard of living, over the next five years, will be worth it for 'future generations'.

    I suppose it is the mindset of the individual. I believe the greater sacrifice is staying in the Union with a country who's debt is now well North of a trillion pounds and that deficit continues to grow. The continued pouring in of wealth into London and the South East making the difference between the have and have nots greater.

     

    This campaign is all about having the power over social justice so those pensioners can be protected.

     

    I agree with Joe though, whatever the result, we have to unite behind it.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    Give it a rest Nick you are sounding like you can't handle robust debate. It's politics Nick not for the faint hearted. I have received several cheeky,agressive,biased and insulting comments over the years on here. Take it on the chin if you are going to debate.

    it may well be politics N13 and indeed not for the faint hearted, but that doesn't mean we can't all at least try and be polite and try and respect other members views even if we disagree strongly with one another.....the same guidelines that are in place for all other threads on NetWeather also are in place here........I'm quoting your post, but I'm directing this post at all contributors

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Isn't that an argument for voting YES ? 

    I am, of course, referring to a situation where they are two separate countries. So your inference is mistaken.

    Give it a rest Nick you are sounding like you can't handle robust debate. It's politics Nick not for the faint hearted. I have received several cheeky,agressive,biased and insulting comments over the years on here. Take it on the chin if you are going to debate.

    The response to my previous post is, apparently, "not in your case". Ah well.

     

    Not sure what it is that I have to take on the chin that I haven't.

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    Posted
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh
  • Location: Duddingston, Edinburgh

    I suppose it is the mindset of the individual. I believe the greater sacrifice is staying in the Union with a country who's debt is now well North of a trillion pounds and that deficit continues to grow. The continued pouring in of wealth into London and the South East making the difference between the have and have nots greater.

     

    This campaign is all about having the power over social justice so those pensioners can be protected.

     

    I agree with Joe though, whatever the result, we have to unite behind it.

     

    See i completely agree with this but i believe (maybe naively) that we are better trying to fix this as a nation rather than trying to get rid of the status quo by separating and the potential risk that brings to all of us. I know people in the North, the SW, Wales etc must as p**ed off as everyone here is and I think the genie is out of the bottle now and as many have said (inc Milliband) we have to reform the political system in this country and distribute wealth and services nationally

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Unfortunately I think it's personal with Nick. We will leave it at that.

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Unfortunately I think it's personal with Nick. We will leave it at that.

    I'm not sure how many times I have to say: it isn't.

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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl

    My granny, 89 years old, has voted Labour in every Scottish, European and Westminster election since turning 18.

    Today she returned her postal vote to the Highland electoral office and voted Yes.

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    Posted
  • Location: Pershore
  • Location: Pershore

    Nick and N13, please just take it to pm if you want to discuss any further, none of that is adding anything to the discussion in here.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    For many younger people there's not the same worry about pensions. We're being told we'll have to work for far longer than previous generations and that pensions in their current format are unsustainable. The end result is that there's a feeling of there not being much to worry about losing. I completely agree about the older generation having these worries about their standard of living, and this is reflected in the core NO vote being found in the older generation.

     

    There is a huge debate to be had about the affluence of the older generation, compared to the current generation....do we dare open that can of worms? :)

    My pension has already been rubbished by the banks, corporate greed, forced into annuities that think it fair I should have to live to 130yr old before I get a return, inflation and a UK government that takes a tax hit on money that I have already earned and paid tax on. Don't even get me started on QE and the ludicrous interest rates for savers!

     

     

    Independance?  - Bring it on!

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    Posted
  • Location: Central Falkirk
  • Location: Central Falkirk

    My granny, 89 years old, has voted Labour in every Scottish, European and Westminster election since turning 18.

    Today she returned her postal vote to the Highland electoral office and voted Yes.

     I take your yes-voting granny and raise it. My 93 - yo mother is not only a firm no, but keeps arguing with my (yes-voting) brother on the subject. He's not for changing, but neither is she ;-).

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