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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

    A few more thoughts on polls! YG where it's asked the question has continued to be out on it's own with Labour leading in Scotland for Westminster Voting Intention. The IPSOS Mori Westminster VI poll out on Friday has the SNP 11% (13% ex don't knows/ wont votes) ahead of Labour in the Scotland subset.

    In terms of Scottish Seats, Electoral Calculus predicts these figures for the May 2015 UK General Election:

     

    SNP: 40 MPs (+34)Lab: 16 MPs (-25)Con:  3 MPs (+ 2)L/D:  0 MPs (-11)
    That sort of result would on current Lib Dem poll ratings propel the SNP into the the third UK party in the House of Commons solely on Scottish representation. Constitutional implications galore, potentially holding the balance of power, potentially being invited to form a collation and govern the UK and to get the Cabinet representation without SNP MPs from Scottish Seats in English only departments of state would require the SNP to occupy the very senior Cabinet positions.

    Does the UK look sustainable in it's current constitutional format?

     

     

    A good question, just likeWL is.

     

    My objection to Yes is they will not admit there are  just as good questions that No can ask. Do we get answer? No, we get either point blank dismissed,  accused of being patronising, called stupid (though subtly) or that everything will be better than now.

     

    Anyway, lets see if I'm right! My questions are:

     

    Yes want 'Independence' but you also want: To continue with the same currency as the rest of these Islands, to be connected by road, air and sea to the rest of these Islands as now, to continue to have the same prices as the rest of these Islands, to trade just as you do now in the future with the rest of these Islands, to continue to have the same head of state as the rest of these Islands. Essentially you say you want things to change a lot but pass that of as everything will be the same as now.

     

    Serious question. Don't you think people will notice the contradiction? Do you seriously think people will buy the idea there will be not a single adverse effect of independence? Can you really be independent and carry on as now as pointed out above.

     

    And, isn't it the case that what Yes say is really what No offer?

     

    Edit: btw, I'm out for much of the day so I'm not running away!

    Edited by Devonian
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Devonian, I am a Yes voter. I don't want the same currency after transition, I don't want the queen as head of state and I'll happily accept paying whatever the market price is for my shopping. As for roads etc., I wasn't aware of these plans to dig up the A1, M74 and why will our ports be closed?

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    I'm not sure most people with families and kids to support would agree with a "bring it on" attitude to a depression.

     

    The point is that, whilst there is an element of focusing on the negative, the YES campaign has grown rather too fond of shouting "scaremongering" at the raising of any point about possible negative consequences of independence. A little more recognition that, yes, there are dangers and genuine risks of some things really not going very well would do them no harm. The idea that none of these problems are realistic possibilities is simply head in the sand stuff.

    If Scotland votes yes, I'm pretty sure the EU or Greece will be blamed for the Great Depression.  An independent country can't cause a Great Depression, it is a utter lie by the EU banks. I think they are corrupt and out of touch with the people. Just because the EU caused the recession, it doesn't mean they have to blame on an independent country. They did started the recession first. I just think the people just had enough of the EU. That is why there is a rise of anti-EU sentiment recently.

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Following on from the funniest story of 24 hrs.  

     

    This surely takes the prize for evolving from the deepest sewer and out into the gutter.

     

    Apalling journalism.

     

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754216/Childless-SNP-chiefs-no-feel-UK-family-Leaders-Scottish-National-Party-want-break-Union-not-understand-families-claimed.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    If Scotland votes yes, I'm pretty sure the EU or Greece will be blamed for the Great Depression.  An independent country can't cause a Great Depression, it is a utter lie by the EU banks. I think they are corrupt and out of touch with the people. Just because the EU caused the recession, it doesn't mean they have to blame on an independent country. They did started the recession first. I just think the people just had enough of the EU. That is why there is a rise of anti-EU sentiment recently.

    None of which in any way addresses the point I was making.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Daily Fail what can you say.So effectively when you vote its only legitimate if you have children! Is someone's opinion not valid unless you have children.The last time I checked children grow into adults.Doesyour life only matter up until the age of 16.The vote is for everyone from 16 to 65.Everyone has a right to determine the future of our country.If we take their argument forward then Lesbian and Gays would be barred from voting.What else do you expect from the Daily Fail gutter journalism.I am voting because I want change now and a better country for everyone.What happens 50 years from now is for future generations to decide not for me to predict.

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    They have certainly not done themselves any favours with this article.   Absolute disgrace!

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Nick there are more dangers in staying in RUK.Do we hear Darling and co talk about these.Of course not.I think you have been on the silly pills today.Who tries to win a vote by agreeing with the opposition.Not once have Yes or SNP said that Scotland will be any different from any other independent nation in terms of challenges.But the challenges will be Scotland's its about making them ourselves.The media like to pretend the yes side claim a faultless land of milk and honey.No one has said that.If you want Salmond or yes to agree with the negativity of the opposition then you are in cloud cuckoo land.The no side is called project fear...get it.Scare the horses to con them into no.That's their tactic.SNP and yes offer a vision of a new Scotland of course its positive no apologies for that.But you are not going to have Salmond agreeing with the apocalyptic nonsense from no that would be offering nothing but the same old doom and gloom of Westminster.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    To continue with the same currency as the rest of these Islands, to be connected by road, air and sea to the rest of these Islands as now, to continue to have the same prices as the rest of these Islands, to trade just as you do now in the future with the rest of these Islands, to continue to have the same head of state as the rest of these Islands.

    See a few pages back - this was answered by myself and I think others.

    And, isn't it the case that what Yes say is really what No offer?

    There is a fundamental difference. For the first time in it's history at 7am next Thursday Scotland will be both a sovereign and democratic nation. If we vote YES then that power remains, Scotland's future will be in Scotland's hands.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    A chat with an older relative who was very decisively no a little bit earlier. By their own admission they mainly relied on TV and printed press for news, but events over the last week got them annoyed enough they went online and found a very different take on things online and from overseas news sources. They are now YES and bristling about the BBC. So another success for HM Government's operation "shock and awe"!

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Apparently there is a Guardian / Observer poll out tonight by Opinium, a market research company. Not aware of them doing political polling normally? What is with the recent use of non specialised polling companies to do indyref polls, higher hopes of the poll findings the editorial team wish?

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Nick there are more dangers in staying in RUK.Do we hear Darling and co talk about these.Of course not.I think you have been on the silly pills today.Who tries to win a vote by agreeing with the opposition.Not once have Yes or SNP said that Scotland will be any different from any other independent nation in terms of challenges.But the challenges will be Scotland's its about making them ourselves.The media like to pretend the yes side claim a faultless land of milk and honey.No one has said that.If you want Salmond or yes to agree with the negativity of the opposition then you are in cloud cuckoo land.The no side is called project fear...get it.Scare the horses to con them into no.That's their tactic.SNP and yes offer a vision of a new Scotland of course its positive no apologies for that.But you are not going to have Salmond agreeing with the apocalyptic nonsense from no that would be offering nothing but the same old doom and gloom of Westminster.

    In one line you sum up how many YES voters on here and beyond have been coming across: arrogant folk who go in for a variety of ad hominems.

     

    No one's asking him to agree with "apocalyptic nonsense", just not to dismiss every single thing as "scaremongering". But it's pointless debating with you: the no side is all about "conning" people, according to you (the possibility that they genuinely believe the position they hold seems not to have occurred to you), and those of us who hold an opposing view and see things differently have been "on the silly pills".

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    I was thinking about the banking exodus which is supposed to happen after a YES vote. I wonder if anyone has actually studied how many jobs would be lost overall? We've got Standard Life, RBS & Lloyds and whoever else running off to London, but how many jobs would have to come north? For example, there will need to be a repatriation of all mortgage handling back to an iScotland, plus many banks (like the RBS) have their account handling teams and complaint handling teams based in England dealing with Scottish accounts (I know this from years of bitter experience with the RBS). These jobs aren't just call centre type low paid jobs, they will have teams of lawyers, risk assessors, etc. too. It's fine and well claiming that there will be thousands of jobs moving south, but how about a bit of balance and some study of how many jobs would come north?

    I read somewhere they already employ 30,000 people in Scotland. I doubt very much that a move South will generate an increase in Scottish jobs. There will be a mix switch admitedly but more likely to be in line with its customer base which will be mainly in rUk. I.e. Bulk customer call centres south with smaller compliance/legal teams being left up north.

    I doubt if there will be anymore clarity announced as RBS in its statement said it was only going public now because of pressure of speculation.

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Yes Nick the no side is a con.Scotland will be better economically and culturally after a yes vote.The media and MPs are protecting their jobs.It might be to blunt for you Nick but that's it in a nutshell hence the fear campaign.They have no positive vision just fearfear.Salmond has nothing to agree with their threats and utterances as they are 90% bull.I suspect you want me to agree with some of their stories.But I don't there is nothing Scotland could not do better with independence.Name me one thing and I will happily discuss with you.Some things are just not worth debating Nick.Threats about currency and big Tory businessmen pulling out of Scotland are just people with agendas.My only agenda is a free democratic Scotland.How can you argue with that.Control our country from our own country or from outside its borders in London.Its not a debate no can argue hence they say Scotland will collapse after a yes vote.The no side don't use reasoned argument just fear.They are morally bankrupt.The only ones with some honesty are the ones who declare themselves British at least that's honest and a reason fro voting no.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    As long as its not the same people that built the trams!

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Yes Nick the no side is a con.Scotland will be better economically and culturally after a yes vote.The media and MPs are protecting their jobs.It might be to blunt for you Nick but that's it in a nutshell hence the fear campaign.They have no positive vision just fearfear.Salmond has nothing to agree with their threats and utterances as they are 90% bull.I suspect you want me to agree with some of their stories.But I don't there is nothing Scotland could not do better with independence.Name me one thing and I will happily discuss with you.Some things are just not worth debating Nick.Threats about currency and big Tory businessmen pulling out of Scotland are just people with agendas.My only agenda is a free democratic Scotland.How can you argue with that.Control our country from our own country or from outside its borders in London.Its not a debate no can argue hence they say Scotland will collapse after a yes vote.The no side don't use reasoned argument just fear.They are morally bankrupt.The only ones with some honesty are the ones who declare themselves British at least that's honest and a reason fro voting no.

     

    This is where I think over egging the pudding does the pro independence camp a complete disservice. Currency is a legitimate debating point and to morph multinational companies into Tory buisinessmen is tactically similar to the unions's approach.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Nov13. Here's one to debate then. SNP are pro EU but as things stand entry into the EU, which is highly likely but not certain, currently stipulates adoption on the Euro.

    Therefore at some stage Scotland would be straight jacketed economically not by Westminster but Brussels.

    BTW I'm not ukip.

    "We can choose not to adopt the the Euro" isn't an acceptable answer IMHO because I believe as EU law stands you can't..unlike saying we can keep the pound which by Sterlingization you can.

    Is that not swapping the devil you know (WM) for one you dont?

    This a genuine point to which if I had the vote would concern me.

    Thanks.

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Odiham, Hampshire
  • Location: Odiham, Hampshire

    Higher prices

    Fewer jobs

    Recession

    Isolation

    A very high price to pay for independence from your own country.

    Most of the 'undecideds' will vote NO. There will also be a number of people who say they will vote YES, but away from bombastic bullying of the YES campaign will change to NO.

    Think about it. Netweather is a pretty civilised place and there are hardly any Scottish based people who dare to voice a NO opinion. Why is that, when according to the polls at least 50% of them will vote NO. It may be because they know that they will be viciously verbally attacked.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    I read somewhere they already employ 30,000 people in Scotland. I doubt very much that a move South will generate an increase in Scottish jobs. There will be a mix switch admitedly but more likely to be in line with its customer base which will be mainly in rUk. I.e. Bulk customer call centres south with smaller compliance/legal teams being left up north.

    I doubt if there will be anymore clarity announced as RBS in its statement said it was only going public now because of pressure of speculation.

     

    I didn't claim there would be an increase in jobs, I wanted to know what the overall net loss would be :)

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    Posted
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City
  • Location: Gilesgate Moor, Durham City

    Yes Nick the no side is a con.Scotland will be better economically and culturally after a yes vote.The media and MPs are protecting their jobs.It might be to blunt for you Nick but that's it in a nutshell hence the fear campaign.They have no positive vision just fearfear.Salmond has nothing to agree with their threats and utterances as they are 90% bull.I suspect you want me to agree with some of their stories.But I don't there is nothing Scotland could not do better with independence.Name me one thing and I will happily discuss with you.Some things are just not worth debating Nick.Threats about currency and big Tory businessmen pulling out of Scotland are just people with agendas.My only agenda is a free democratic Scotland.How can you argue with that.Control our country from our own country or from outside its borders in London.Its not a debate no can argue hence they say Scotland will collapse after a yes vote.The no side don't use reasoned argument just fear.They are morally bankrupt.The only ones with some honesty are the ones who declare themselves British at least that's honest and a reason fro voting no.

    All I see here is the parroting of the YES propaganda with no thought. In other words, it is partisan opinion dressed up as fact that refuses to recognise that there are people who genuinely and for honest reasons adhere to a different point of view. How old are you? 15? You must be to think that ANY issue and debate could be so black and white. Nothing in life is like that.

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Higher prices

    Fewer jobs

    Recession

    Isolation

    A very high price to pay for independence from your own country.

    Most of the 'undecideds' will vote NO. There will also be a number of people who say they will vote YES, but away from bombastic bullying of the YES campaign will change to NO.

    Think about it. Netweather is a pretty civilised place and there are hardly any Scottish based people who dare to voice a NO opinion. Why is that, when according to the polls at least 50% of them will vote NO. It may be because they know that they will be viciously verbally attacked.

     

    You may have a point about the 'No Thanks' campaign having a more silent approach. however above in bold is a bit of a reach.

     

    Any vicious verbal attacks, not that I have seen any, would be deleted when reported.

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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    One of the people from facebook says: Independence is The Cure not the Disease. This amazing country of ours will be on its Knees begging the World to save us if we don't take decisive action and Stand Alone. Westminster can barely support England Wales and Northern Ireland.We are doing rest of UK an incredible favour by breaking away. Our Independence Could be and End to UK Austerity. I agree with her.

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