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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    LOL. That's why I put a wee winky smile = said in jest.

    Shame, i'm an extreme fiscal conservative in the sense that i believe in a small state and high growth but advocate Norway size surpluses with tax cuts when the economy shows signs of falling off the wagon.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Shame, i'm an extreme fiscal conservative in the sense that i believe in a small state and high growth but advocate Norway size surpluses with tax cuts when the economy shows signs of falling off the wagon.

    Not sure what you mean by 'shame'. I'm a fiscal 'conservative' too (at least I do not advocate large state borrowing, only e.g. prudent borrowing for capital infrastructure projects which would encourge growth) - I just meant that Scotland will take some debt under independence. The only way it could not would be if it was not an equal successor state along with the UK; i.e. was considered a colony. However, as the act of Union has the seals of both Scotland and England (+Wales) on it, then Scotland and the RUK are equals with respect to negotiated treaties such as with the EU etc.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    The United Kingdom(s) was formed in 1603 with the Union of the Crowns; two Kingdoms 'united' by the same monarch. It was over 100 years later before the political union (1707) took place.

    This was niggling me as I was sure Charles II was crowned in Scotland as well. Anyway a wee bit of googling finds the following.

    James VI was obviiously crowned King of Scots and then was crowned King Of England when he succeeded Elizabeth. His son Charles I was crowned King of England in 1626 and King Of Scots in 1633. His son Charles II was crowned King of Scots in 1651 and King of England in 1661 after the restoration.

    His brother and succesor James VII and II was crowned King of England in 1685, no Scottish coronation as he wasn't well liked by the Presbyterians for obvious reason.

    Succeed by his daughter Mary and her husband William of Orange. Crowned King and Queen of England on 11th April 1689 and accepted as King and Queen of Scots on the 11th May of the same year.

    They were suceeded by Mary's sister Anne who became Queen of Great Britain and Ireland after the Act Of Union. It was because the Scottish Estates wanted to choose there own successor ro Anne when she died that the English imposed the Alien Act making it impossible for Scots to trade with England which would have crippled Scotland.

    So it still stands that our presents Queens successors may require a separate coronation in Scotland. Indeed, would we we want our Monarch crowned in a foreign country?

    Let who ever has the real Stone of Destiny deliver for an old style coronation at Scone on the Moot hill.

    Edited by mountain shadow
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I don't know if this paper is of any interest. I must admit I found it heavy going in places so might need a translation from SS. :)

    http://www.scotland....434/0061924.pdf

    Quick scan...

    Seems to date from 2007. Ergo it's projection of $60/barrel for low and $75/barrel high is a little out. Going back to just after the pre global economic crisis spike, $75/barrel is the likely low now and $100/barrel+ is the norm with the only way being up for this long term. Currently running steady at ~$110/barrel, and once the world moves back to growth...

    Figures projected for 90% of oil production to be from Scottish waters towards 2013 (the end of the projection period) was spot on.

    post-9421-0-98835700-1329244626.gif

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Yup, as much as i love the Tories i have to say that the Scottish Tories have been a continued source of disappointment to me since devolution.

    With the much more polarized politics in Scotland (most parties are further left than UK counterparts) the ST should have adopted a very radical line in addition to supporting a pro-Scotland line. If the Tories adopt a pro-Scotland line tommorow then i believe they will get the four fairly marginal seats guaranteed at the next election (possibly even approach Labour for 2nd very quickly).

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Yup, as much as i love the Tories i have to say that the Scottish Tories have been a continued source of disappointment to me since devolution.

    With the much more polarized politics in Scotland (most parties are further left than UK counterparts) the ST should have adopted a very radical line in addition to supporting a pro-Scotland line. If the Tories adopt a pro-Scotland line tommorow then i believe they will get the four fairly marginal seats guaranteed at the next election (possibly even approach Labour for 2nd very quickly).

    Don't you mean 'balanced?'. Up here we have:

    Left = S Socialists, S Greens

    Centre-modest left = SNP

    Moderate right = Labour, Liberals

    Right = Con

    However, for the UK we have:

    Moderate right = Labour, Liberals

    Right = Con, UKIP

    Does that not make the UK more 'polarised' to one side of the political spectrum? The RUK is the anomaly in Europe in terms of political balance and lack of democracy (FPTP, unelected convicted criminals with aristocratic titles ammending laws); Scotland, with its wider spectrum of parties+their support and PR type system is by contrast a much more comparable, modern, transparent democracy.

    Murdo Fraser tried to save the Tories (I actually hoped he would win to give the SNP some more decent opposition) in Scotland but clueless Dave supported Ruth Davidson, whereby consigning them to continued irrelevance.

    The traditional Tories can't adopt a 'pro-Scotland line' as you see from the clip above/Dave's announcement of 'no more powers' if we stay in the UK. The whole idea of the Scots parliament having more powers is an anathema to them. It does not matter that 70% of Scots want FFA minimum and we have a referendum on independence on the horizon; Tories work on ideology, not common sense. Their vote has been declining for 55 years yet they still think Scots will come round to their way of thinking at some point. The seem unable to fathom that they are the one of the major causes of the imminent end of the current UK as a state.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    I meant that Scotland has a much clearer left and right.

    I agree, the UK needs political modernization.

    Sadly Tory ideology is pretty divided when it comes to anything remotely social (contrast to the Liberal Democrats who are united socially but split economically or to Labour who are divided on well.. everything). What i can say from my brief time in Conservative Future is that the Libertarians seem to be prevalent (there are some MP's who fit the bill) and these people even go as far to support PR, federalization, Europe ect... but while retaining the core economic policies of a lean towards privatization and lower taxes.

    So there is hope on the horizon and i would suggest that when Scotland goes independent Ruth will be sacked and the ST will modernise.

    If the UK can get a Tory libertarian into power then my opinion is that Labour could be out for twenty years.

    So there

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    So there is hope on the horizon and i would suggest that when Scotland goes independent Ruth will be sacked and the ST will modernise.

    I don't know, she has her finer qualities. Has given AS something to have fun with a FMQ's today. With Labour's Glasgow rebellion the other day, it's going to be a fun one methinks.

    http://newsnetscotla...-using-sterling

    Gaffe as Tory leader supports independent Scotland using sterling

    Leader of the Scottish Conservatives Ruth Davidson has caused embarrassment for the Tories ahead of Prime Minister David Cameron's visit to Scotland today by supporting the use of the pound in an independent Scotland, directly contradicting briefings by her Westminster colleagues.

    In comments made in the Sunday Post (12 Feb), the Scottish Tory leader "seized on" a YouGov poll showing that a large majority of Scots favour Scotland continuing to use the pound. However the poll in question was about an independent Scotland continuing to use sterling – matching SNP policy – and also showed that there was support across the UK for an independent Scotland to use sterling.

    --------------------

    Something that will appeal to the nervous...

    Would make a good start anyway.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17052524

    Scottish independence: Oil fund 'could be worth £30bn'

    Scotland's first minister has revealed plans for an independent Scotland to establish an ''oil fund'' to help future generations.

    If you look at every other, just about every other, major oil producing country - whether it's Abu Dhabi, Norway, or the states of Canada - all of them have built up an investment fund for the future of their state or the future of their country.

    "Westminster is the exception in this regard and I think most people looking at the management of oil and gas resources would rather follow the Norwegian example than follow the example of the Treasury in London."

    Would be great if it can be done - that figure alone would be a nearly a year's whole budget and depending on prices/what can be stashed away + investment of it, a lot more.

    And finally, some stand up:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17052800

    Scottish independence: UK 'stronger and richer together'

    The prime minister is to use a speech in Edinburgh to launch what he calls a positive vision for the union between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

    Seems the UK is 'richer and stronger' with Scotland as part of it. And here's me thinking that we were a basket case all this time. Sheesh!

    Millionaire Home Counties English Bullingdon Boy Tory comes up to tell Scots what's best for them. Cracking stuff. Should draw the crowds anyway. http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png

    Posted Image

    EDIT, Dave should note that support for independence parties is running at 54% and rising.

    Tories have at best ~15% support with ~70% of Scots disapproving of the coalition. Tories lost Scotland in 1979-97 - there's no winning it back now.

    70% of Scots want FFA/Devo Maxx. Dave wants 'No futher powers to the Scottish Parliament'. I think he'll struggle to sell himself. Still, nice that he's willing to give us a diplomatic visit at the request of our FM. http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    The tone of Camerons sound bite from the radio this morning seems to represent an idealogical shift in the Unionist marketing machine.. am waiting for the fear mongering to rear it's ugly head and the gaff that will surely happen... too little ... WAY too late... SNP mashed Labour with campaign strategy they are ahead of the curve by a considerable margin here.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The tone of Camerons sound bite from the radio this morning seems to represent an idealogical shift in the Unionist marketing machine..

    The guy seems to be utterly clueless about Scotland; reminds me of Thatcher in the sense he thinks we Scots will all just wake up one morning and think "OMG, it's all clear to me now - I should be voting Tory! How stupid I have been all this time! Right, where can I get a union jack on next day delivery and it's definitely time to subscribe to the Daily Mail - I can't believe I didn't realise it was printing the truth all this time!"

    Just been reading this over lunch. A very light hearted look at the Unionist scare stories and how they are all of course a crock of doo-doo.

    http://newsnetscotla...-misinformation

    A Unionist lexicon: An A-Z of Unionist scare stories, myths and misinformation

    Ever since the independence referendum was announced, Scotland has witnessed an outpouring of bile, negativity, scare mongering and bitterness from the anti-independence parties. The positive case for the Union and Cameron's repect agenda have cleared off as quick as a Catholic bishop who's blundered into a Gay Pride march.

    The Unionist tactic is clear enough, throw enough mud and hopefully some will stick. This wee list of scare stories and myths is not comprehensive, there's not enough time in the day for that. Feel free to add others in the comments along with a rebuttal.

    Paul Kavanagh's stuff always puts a smile on my face. Lots of funny bits - this one on the whole 'Independence is anti-English' rubbish is class:

    There are legitimate, and serious, questions of democratic representation in Scotland under the Union. Although this concept may be difficult for Daily Telegraph readers to grasp, the desire for Scottish self-determination is not about England and the English. Shocking but true. England is not the centre of the Scottish universe, that would be Scotland.,...

    Aye! This is about Scotland - nowhere else.

    http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png

    ------------------------

    EDIT:

    Here we go.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17052800

    Scottish independence: David Cameron makes Union case

    Prime Minister David Cameron has made the case for the Union, saying it would be "deeply, deeply sad" if Scotland became an independent country.

    Dave's going to cry if Scots vote yes. Och poor wee sensitive soul; my heart bleeds for him.

    Dave - we'd not actually be going anywhere, we're mainly just talking about taxes going to Holyrood. You could arrange that in an instant buy offering us FFA. But instead you seem hell bent on breaking up the UK by telling us that's a no-goer and you know whats best for us even though your party is almost a fringe one in Scotland...

    Anyhoo - should get back to work now, although I might sneek a wee look at FMQs...

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Camerons speech on live just now, he looks and sounds like Johnny Foreigner tbh. Not substantive at all, weak arguments and being picked off by the journalists now for his own persona being a factor of alienation for Scottish people.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Camerons speech on live just now, he looks and sounds like Johnny Foreigner tbh. Not substantive at all, weak arguments and being picked off by the journalists now for his own persona being a factor of alienation for Scottish people.

    Why?? Because he doesn't speak with a thick Scottish accent?

    ....on that basis most regions in the UK could look on those from other areas as being "Johnny Foreigner"?

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    No not because of his accent Kiwi, because of his satellite politics, he is a long time coming into this debate proper. Johnny Foreigner as in playing politics in what is for him a foreign arena, he was clearly out of his comfort zone and lacking in the zeal apparent at say PMQs in WMinster. Compare today's softly softly speech to the PMQs prior to his Friday two fingers up at Brussels, he's not equipped for this fight.

    'I am just one voice'....said DC...? ( am not fighting this fight will hand that over to Michael Moore because I will do more harm than good) is what I saw between the lines here.

    The journalist needled him on his accent, upbringing etc simply to make the point that many Scottish people cannot see past that first of all, and whether right or wrong many never will.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    No not because of his accent Kiwi, because of his satellite politics, he is a long time coming into this debate proper. Johnny Foreigner as in playing politics in what is for him a foreign arena, he was clearly out of his comfort zone and lacking in the zeal apparent at say PMQs in WMinster. Compare today's softly softly speech to the PMQs prior to his Friday two fingers up at Brussels, he's not equipped for this fight.

    'I am just one voice'....said DC...? ( am not fighting this fight will hand that over to Michael Moore because I will do more harm than good) is what I saw between the lines here.

    The journalist needled him on his accent, upbringing etc simply to make the point that many Scottish people cannot see past that first of all, and whether right or wrong many never will.

    At work so could not watch.

    Thing is – Dave is ‘foreign’, but that’s not down to him just being ‘English’; that is too simplistic. He’s foreign to Scots because:

    The politics of his party are foreign to Scots – it is to a large extent an English party; in many ways the English equivalent of the SNP, albeit right-wing. The Tories have only one MP out of 59 and got 13% of the vote in the last Scottish General Election (May 2011).

    He no longer makes direct decisions on many things that affect the lives of Scots who view with distaste his parties ideas for the NHS, education etc.

    He does not represent anything close to the average Scot being a top posh School privately educated, millionaire Bullingdon boy career politician.

    He rarely visits Scotland.

    He lies consistently about Scotland, telling us things like ‘The UK has invested a lot in North Sea Oil’ when it has invested jack onions since privatisation in the early 1980’s. Only the other week he was saying ‘No more powers for the Scottish Parliament’ and now he’s mumbling about “"I'm very prepared. I believe in devolution, and I don't just mean devolution in terms of power, I mean devolution in terms of giving people greater control over their own lives." Which is just meaningless guff.

    He seems to feel Westminster should have a say in Scotland’s future against the principles of international law and believes Scots do not have the right to decide the best form of government for themselves (the Tories were against Devolution/independence and the ‘Claim of Right’).

    The vast majority of Scots don’t really care he thinks because his party does not care what they think.

    Constrast that with the SNP....State School, decent Uni (often Scots ones) or experience in trades, worked in Scots industries.... Just like me and much more in touch with the electorate.

    Anyhoo – weak stuff it seems from a quick scan of reports.

    This from the Spectator and is quite balanced:

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/7653229/mr-cameron-comes-to-edinburgh.thtml

    RE FMQ’s – forgot the parliament is in recess right now. Bet Johann is pleased!

    Back to my report for Saudi Aramco!

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    The journalist needled him on his accent, upbringing etc simply to make the point that many Scottish people cannot see past that first of all, and whether right or wrong many never will.

    Clearly besides Dave's politics being foreign, which is a fair point, his posh English accent seems to ensure that he doesn't even get the time of day from the average Scot.

    Sad that anti-English discrimination is gaining ground in Scotland. Anglophobia seems to be rife! This to me is the most worrying aspect of the whole push towards independence and could make for an increasingly uneasy relationship between the countries, especially when you also take account of the clear political divergence.

    Last time I was in Scotland I was accused as being (naughty words) English....made me laugh, given my accent I reckon the bloke needed his hearing tested! but I was shocked by the anti English sentiment. I'm up in Scotland next week..... should I put on my broadest accent and wear an all blacks top to ensure a welcome?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Sad that anti-English discrimination is gaining ground in Scotland. Anglophobia seems to be rife!

    That's quite an arrogant statement - I mean if people from south of the border think that then that is a very arrogant attitude. I don't spend any of my time 'disliking English people' and and don't personally know anyone who does. My interest lies in self governance for the country I live in; i.e. how things work normally for countries. Anti-outdated British post-empirialist unitary state elite political establishment I grant you, but that is a very different thing.

    I do however think it it a bit rich when some not from Scotland, who does not live in Scotland, does not contribute to Scottish society/the economy, who will not acutally be voting the in the referendum, whose party has very little support in Scotland, feels it his place to advise Scots what is best for them. An analogy would be Angela Merkel popping over to London to tell people what to vote in an EU referendum - well not far away anyway.

    EDIT From here:

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

    Anti-English: Scottish nationalism is motivated by hatred of the English.

    The granddaddy of Unionist myths. It's rather like claiming that the anti-racism movement is motived solely by hatred of white people, women only want equality because they hate men, or gay people only want to get married because they hate Catholics.

    This debate is about government and whether Scotland's interests are served by a parliamentary union which denies Scotland basic democratic control of many aspects of the administration of our country. It's not about England and the English at all.

    There are legitimate, and serious, questions of democratic representation in Scotland under the Union. Although this concept may be difficult for Daily Telegraph readers to grasp, the desire for Scottish self-determination is not about England and the English. Shocking but true. England is not the centre of the Scottish universe, that would be Scotland. Perhaps that's what they're really objecting to.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: ILCHESTER
  • Location: ILCHESTER

    I see this Indep vote a bit like a 16y/o boy boasting that as soon as he's 18 it'll be two fingers up to mum and dad, I'm off. However, when he reaches 18 and push comes to shove he decides

    he's having none of it, preferring to remain in the safe, ample bosom of the family, while at the same time using his threat to leave as a way of negociating some better conditions.

    To my mind Salmond is already thinking along these lines. He's well aware that most Scots are canny enough to know how generously Westminster butters their bread, so the next two years or

    so will be all about just how much more power the wee man can get devolved to holyrood, rather than serious expectation of full independence.

    On a lighter note, one thing the Scots should carefully consider is as an independent oil producing country, they are putting themsleves at risk from invasion and occupation by the US - especially

    in light of their continued build up of Whiskies of Mass Destruction!

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Sad that anti-English discrimination is gaining ground in Scotland. Anglophobia seems to be rife! This to me is the most worrying aspect of the whole push towards independence and could make for an increasingly uneasy relationship between the countries, especially when you also take account of the clear political divergence.

    Has to be said that there are numbskulls from either side of the border commenting on articles on bbc, newspapers on line with increasingly polarised and racist views.. to me that isnt passion on either side of the debate just narrow mindedness.

    I wouldn't say there is any rampant anglophobia sweeping the nation up here, friendly banter with our auld nighbours but not a groundswell for anything more.. people like that breed misanthropy.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Has to be said that there are numbskulls from either side of the border commenting on articles on bbc,

    I had a quick look at the comments cropping up on here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17052800

    Sighed, and decided not to bother reading much further. A lot of bile/hate filled comments; almost at Daily Mail level.

    I have never understood why people use the 'You Scots are subsidised' myth as a weapon of against Scottish Nationalists. Eh? This defies logic. :doh:

    But yes, of course there are numpties on both sides of the border. Thankfully this thread/forum has managed to avoid them with any numptieness frowned upon. :good:

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I had a quick look at the comments cropping up on here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17052800

    Sighed, and decided not to bother reading much further. A lot of bile/hate filled comments; almost at Daily Mail level.

    I have never understood why people use the 'You Scots are subsidised' myth as a weapon of against Scottish Nationalists. Eh? This defies logic. :doh:

    But yes, of course there are numpties on both sides of the border. Thankfully this thread/forum has managed to avoid them with any numptieness frowned upon. :good:

    I read some of them and after " Independence could ruin our crippled ship yards," I feared for my sanity.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I see this Indep vote a bit like a 16y/o boy boasting that as soon as he's 18 it'll be two fingers up to mum and dad, I'm off. However, when he reaches 18 and push comes to shove he decides

    he's having none of it, preferring to remain in the safe, ample bosom of the family, while at the same time using his threat to leave as a way of negociating some better conditions.

    To my mind Salmond is already thinking along these lines. He's well aware that most Scots are canny enough to know how generously Westminster butters their bread, so the next two years or

    so will be all about just how much more power the wee man can get devolved to holyrood, rather than serious expectation of full independence.

    Sort of Like Dave/the UK Gov and the EU do you mean? I understand Dave has been talking about 'bringing powers back from brussels', yet he won't offer the UK a referendum on EU membership, presumably because he prefers the safe, ample bosom of the EU family while at the same time using his 'Veto' (ahem) to negotiate better conditions?

    Ah, the old 'Scotland gets subsidised' stuff. You do realise how utterly ridiculous it is to use that argument against Scots wishing Scottish independence/full fiscal autonomy? People wanting this want nothing from London - zip, zilch, zero, nada etc. Think of it like this:

    Daily Mail reader: "You sweaties are living the high life off our taxes"

    Nationalist: "Erm no, and we don't want to"

    Daily Mail reader: "Damn jocks living off our subsidies"

    Nationalist: "We want to look after our own finances, wish nothing from you"

    Daily Mail reader: "You lot can get free uni and stuff and we pay for it"

    Nationalist: "Well no, that's because you voted for parties which support uni fees and we voted for a party that does not and instead uses our taxes to fund free higher education, but that's beside the point - we want to manage our own finances, hence the talk of 'independence' "

    Daily Mail reader: "Well if you do go independent, don't expect a block grant from westminster or any subsidies"

    Nationalist: "Sighs"

    The Scottish subsidy myth was created to keep Scots scared of going it alone. This worked well when there was no internet and all people could rely on were newspapers/the BBC; these were pro-union of course so peddled this myth. Then along came the internet and the myth stopped working as people could go and have a look online and discover what the case really was. At the same time, people in England started hearing about the subsidy myth via the same medium - the myth having previously been reserved for Scots. So as the Scots stopped believing it, so lots of Daily Mail readers started to. Such is the law of unintended consequences...

    Edited by scottish skier
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