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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    How about some respect to someone who's been there, seen it, done it and knows more about BRITISH army life (which includes his former Scottish comrades i suspect) than others on here, namely ajpoolshark.

     

     

    not trying do disrespect anyone he has his views and I fully respect them I was only putting it across from my point of view that's the great thing about civilisation people can have different views on things.

     

    I think defending your own country from invasion is perfectly reasonable what I object to is taking wars to other countries and you may say we have to defend from terrorism in Iraq, afganistan and the middle east but that wouldn't have been so much of an issue in the first place if we didn't go into Iraq with desert storm when we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Sorry, but it's pathetic. The hegemony and arrogance of some people on here where a basic question asked - and a valid one - is dismissed in such a way is stunning.

    For those who don't visit the other place aka theweatheroutlook, this post is by the very same Nick R who is basically gloating in the Up in Arms forum about riling up the Scots and derailing this thread.

    Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W
  • Location: Kingdom of Fife: 56.2º N, 3.2º W

    If the indy vote is so disruptive to the Westminster Government's dealing with overseas events  then why are the Conservatives (and UKIP) forging ahead with an EU Referendum?

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    not trying do disrespect anyone he has his views and I fully respect them I was only putting it across from my point of view that's the great thing about civilisation people can have different views on things.

     

    I think defending your own country from invasion is perfectly reasonable what I object to is taking wars to other countries and you may say we have to defend from terrorism in Iraq, afganistan and the middle east but that wouldn't have been so much of an issue in the first place if we didn't go into Iraq with desert storm when we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

    likewise, I may not agree with all of your viewpoints, but I fully respect them.....  :good:

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    For those who don't visit the other place aka theweatheroutlook, this post is by the very same Nick R who is basically gloating in the Up in Arms forum about riling up the Scots and derailing this thread.

     

     

    aye we always knew it was being done on purpose like other things like being told on I already know three of the people doing it considering I sign in private and see who has been on while its happening and who follows my posts around other threads

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    likewise, I may not agree with all of your viewpoints, but I fully respect them.....  :good:

     

     

    great to hear AJ and I wasn't trying to demean everyone who joins the armed forces I know people do it out of passion for there nation and to ensure the safety of us it was just when its put over like people join to go out and fight I think that is wrong and they are probably joining for the wrong reasons and to only go out to shoot people which in my eye is murderous.

     

    I wasn't in any way saying you are like this as I know 99% of people who join aren't but it does allow some people to join for other reasons which is wrong.

     

    I don't believe we should take part in wars in other countries that's for them to deal with and we defo shouldn't be going to wars for America.

     

    that's what I would like to see from a Scottish forces to defend our country and not be going into foreign wars army should be there for defence purposes.

     

    I understand we have to try and sort out terrorists where they start before getting here but I still feel without desert storm we wouldn't have to be thinking about attacks like these in britian.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    seen as we all like polls hows about a UKIP government next time round?

     

    YesHighland â€@YesHighland 18m

    "The Survation poll for the Mail on Sunday has Ukip on 64%, way ahead of the Tories on 20%, with Labour on 13%... http://fb.me/41hbUcGqJ

     

    its only a by election but could be a signal for more to come

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    I'm after some feedback....from a purely personal perspective I wish to ask a question to all the Scottish members who contribute/read this thread.

     

    the question is "What does Scottish Independence mean to you as individual"  (how do you define it, and your genuine reasons for and against)

     

    I appreciate this topic has been at the centre of this political discussion thread, but I'd like to take the politics away for this question and get your own individual thoughts..

     

    I don't want to detract from the political discussion though so if anyone is kind enough to give me some feedback on this question, I'll happily start another thread purely for answers to the question posed

     

    cheers

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    ajpoolshark, worth going back 50 pages or so.... Nick asked a similar question, though more on the emotional aspects that helped shape people's journey to supporting independence:

    http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/69584-scottish-politics-2011-2016/page-448

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    ajpoolshark, worth going back 50 pages or so.... Nick asked a similar question, though more on the emotional aspects that helped shape people's journey to supporting independence:

    http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/69584-scottish-politics-2011-2016/page-448

    cheers, I'll take a look

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    for me its as simple as we used to be our own nation but now are not allowed and every country in the world should be allowed to be its own free standing nation in the world and Scotland should be one of those and afforded that right.

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    Posted
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: dry sunny average summers and really cold snowy winters
  • Location: falkirk, scotland, 16.505m, 54.151ft above sea level

    post-18233-0-50344200-1409443230_thumb.j

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Hmmm.

     

    No polls it seems?

     

    We know there was a panelbase and 2 Yougovs in the field during the last week (folk e-mailed Scotgoespop with details as usual). People fairly expectant of a Sunday release, e.g. Sun or Times. 

     

    That's what six days since the debate and just a survation. Makes just one poll in the past 17 days (excluding ICMs debate poll which was poll of people who watched the debate and were willing to respond before and after).

     

    EDIT

     

    Looking back to 2011, we had 4 VI polls over the same (t-n days) period.

     

    ---

     

    Meanwhile, No campaign try to maximise self harm.

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/lamont-ad-isnt-sexist-ive-met-women-exactly-like-patronising-bt-lady.25188745

     

    Lamont: our ad isn't sexist...I've met women exactly like 'patronising BT lady'
     
    JOHANN Lamont, the Scottish Labour leader, has claimed to have met women "exactly" like the one in the Better Together TV advert which has been condemned as patronising and sexist.

     

    To be honest, there is probably an element of truth to this. Aside from the sexist element, patronising BT lady's dismissive / uninterested view is one held by firm no which represents <30% of the population. They didn't want the referendum (<30% was the number saying exactly that pre-2011) and see it as an annoyance they wish would go away. However, they're hardly a target group and well, patronising them....

     

    Some FPs

     

    10639675_766517276740093_694363437367376

     

    10626558_766547960070358_614219787343983

     

    UKIP got 3% in the last Holyrood VI poll.

     

    ---

     

    EDIT

     

    Oops. 

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/model-in-better-together-leaflet-im-voting-yes.25192401

     

    Model in Better Together leaflet: 'I'm voting Yes'
     
    THE face of 2.5 million pro-Union leaflets produced by the UK Government has said she supports independence, the Sunday Herald can reveal.
     
    Actress Tracey Jenkins, from Glasgow, said she now felt "slightly embarrassed" at having posed as the mum in a family picture which appears in the 16-page leaflet What Staying In The United Kingdom Means For Scotland.

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Interesting themes on Twitter today. BT campaigners putting up a lot of tweets around ' the darker side of the Yes Campaign'.

     

    Moving the arena of discussion away from the actual debate, this is only happening for one reason, they are losing.

     

    Cameron admits he is 'nervous' about the ref result and also the SH FP has really got them wound up today !

     

    Would seem the actual political argument having failed in a bad week for BT has moved things under the banner of Murphy's egg fiasco, meaning the debate stops and is deliberately being blurred via trying to cement the mind set of Yes campaigners as sinister, mob like.. etc. Basically, mud slinging gutter tactics really.

     

    And this - Farage coming up to rabble rouse prior to an Orange March, cannot see this being anything other than spectacularly ugly, and if so, will get tidily pinned on Yes in a similar manner to the Murphy carry on.

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/concern-at-farage-scottish-visit-before-orange-march.25192378

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    hmm....I guess you learn something new every day....In my 15 years in the armed forces I never saw any examples of what your suggestion.....the British Armed Forces have been 'as one' for a very long time...

     

     

    I think you missed my point. Did you see Scottish regiments, rightly proud of their heritage, wearing kilts, playing bagpipes, often putting wee saltires up, on their tanks etc?

     

    Or did you see the 'North British Divisions', e.g. the 'Royal Regiment of North Britain', largely indistinct from rUK regiments.

     

    Many argue that when the Scottish regiments were incorporated into the British army, this actually helped preserve the kilt as a national symbol post-45.

     

    http://ezinearticles.com/?How-the-Military-Saved-the-Scottish-Kilt&id=1232101

     

    How the Military Saved the Scottish Kilt
     
    The kilt in its modern form which we all know and love, would not have survived if it were not for the military.
     
    If you look at the kilt's history, you will see that the garment would have been lost to Scotland, and the rest of the world If it weren't for the Scottish regiments.
     
    For a brief look at Scottish history and how it shaped the survival of the kilt , we need to focus on the aftermath of the Battle of Culloden, which was the last battle to be fought on British soil.
     
    In 1746 the British government passed into law, the Act of Proscription.
     
    This act was designed to put an end to the Clansmen's right to bear arms, so removing their ability to revolt, and was the first of several measures designed to crush the Clan system.
     
    On the first of August 1747 a new section of the law, which came to be know as the Dress Act, came into force which banned the wearing of "Highland Dress".
     
    This section of the act made the wearing of the kilt, and indeed all tartan illegal in Scotland, its aim to further control the Clans and crush their Gaelic culture.
     
    The penalties for breaking this new law were severe, six months imprisonment for the first offence, for the second, deportation to the colonies for not less than seven years.
     
    This law was to remain in force until 1782 when it was finally repealed.
     
    By that time the kilt was almost forgotten as a form of dress in the Scottish Highlands.
     
    The one exception to this law being the Scottish Regiments.
     
    Young Clansmen were actively being encouraged to join these regiments, the oldest of these being the Black Watch, which was first formed in 1725, ironically to stop fighting amongst the Clans.
     
    These newly formed Scottish Regiments were being sent to fight in conflicts taking place at that time in India, and North America.
     
    As a means of identification and to foster a sense of pride in the new regiments, each was given its own tartan.
     
    These regiments continued to fight in conflicts all over the world, dressed in their kilts, right up until 1940, when the kilt was last worn on the battlefield.
     
    And it is thanks to these regiments, and their pipe bands that the kilt has become such a famous item of clothing around the world.
     
    I personally find it ironic that the British Government of the day, having passed laws to make the wearing of the kilt and tartan illegal, inadvertently introduced it to the world, and helped make it the National symbol that it has become today.
     
    David S Duncan is the author of the article you have just read.
     
    For a comprehensive guide to the kilt and all its accessories visit http://www.your-kilt.com where you will find answers to all your kilt related questions.
     
    Including photographic evidence of what is worn under the kilt.
     
    The site has many different photographs of kilts from all over the world, as well as videos featuring pipe bands.
     
    There are also many photographs of Scotland's stunning scenery .
     
    Articles on the history of the kilt, as well as the Scottish and Irish clans go to make up my web site, which is dedicated to the world's most famous National Dress.

     

     

     

    I'm not suggesting that makes Scotland soldiers particularly pro-independence or anything, simply that the British army actively encouraged a distinctly Scottish pride through dress etc because they found that attracted Scots to join up, encouraged camaraderie etc.

     

    The decimation of the Scottish regiments has caused widespread protest in a large part due to that destruction of proud Scottish heritage. 

     

    I find the idea that young Scottish men thinking about a military career would not wish to serve in the defence force of their own country frankly one of the most insulting things the pro-union campaign have come up with. Younger Scottish men are also the most openly pro-independence group there is in polls.

     

    Within the ranks soldiers are likely less pro-indy than civilians due to feelings of loyalty. However, a solider who supports indy is hardly going to go around saying that. They are not supposed to give political views and that would be a particularly sensitive one. Disloyalty to the British army? OMG that would go down well career-wise.

     

    If you want shy Yes, then the army would be a great place to look.

     

    Our SNP veterans minister fought in the Falklands and there are many veterans pro-indy.

     

    https://www.facebook.com/VeteransForScottishIndependence

     

    10421412_769263889791068_123549068585060

     

    482519_742542942435968_234221260_n.jpg?o

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Something different from Kevin Bridges. 

     

     

     

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    Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

    Couple of more funny ones from this morning..

     

    post-7292-0-39342900-1409479246_thumb.jp

     

    Met the forces of darkness on Ayr High Street yesterday !

    post-7292-0-42476700-1409479250_thumb.jp

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

     

     

    And this - Farage coming up to rabble rouse prior to an Orange March, cannot see this being anything other than spectacularly ugly, and if so, will get tidily pinned on Yes in a similar manner to the Murphy carry on.

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/concern-at-farage-scottish-visit-before-orange-march.25192378

    Interesting.....Nige now joins the pathetic partnerships of the Westminster Government!    

    What is it with these politicians?   Whenever they get a smell of the gravy train they revert to type.   I'm not saying that he is not entitled to canvass in Scotland, it's just the timing that's a bit smelly!   Worrying though, as Scots aren't renowned for their mellow temperaments!   Concocted for maximum effect methinks.   Tensions will obviously be high so let's hope the YES voters can see it for what it is and manage to 'keep the heid!'

    One would hope that he isn't accompanied by loyal  'stirrers'   Although, given the NO campaigns record to date, I don't think I would like to place money on it........   Eggs anyone? :vava:

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    I think you missed my point. Did you see Scottish regiments, rightly proud of their heritage, wearing kilts, playing bagpipes, often putting wee saltires up, on their tanks etc?

     

    Or did you see the 'North British Divisions', e.g. the 'Royal Regiment of North Britain', largely indistinct from rUK regiments.

     

    Many argue that when the Scottish regiments were incorporated into the British army, this actually helped preserve the kilt as a national symbol post-45.

     

     

     

    I'm not suggesting that makes Scotland soldiers particularly pro-independence or anything, simply that the British army actively encouraged a distinctly Scottish pride through dress etc because they found that attracted Scots to join up, encouraged camaraderie etc.

     

    The decimation of the Scottish regiments has caused widespread protest in a large part due to that destruction of proud Scottish heritage. 

     

    I find the idea that young Scottish men thinking about a military career would not wish to serve in the defence force of their own country frankly one of the most insulting things the pro-union campaign have come up with. Younger Scottish men are also the most openly pro-independence group there is in polls.

     

    Within the ranks soldiers are likely less pro-indy than civilians due to feelings of loyalty. However, a solider who supports indy is hardly going to go around saying that. They are not supposed to give political views and that would be a particularly sensitive one. Disloyalty to the British army? OMG that would go down well career-wise.

     

    If you want shy Yes, then the army would be a great place to look.

     

    Our SNP veterans minister fought in the Falklands and there are many veterans pro-indy.

     

    https://www.facebook.com/VeteransForScottishIndependence

     

    10421412_769263889791068_123549068585060

     

    482519_742542942435968_234221260_n.jpg?o

    sorry SS, but I think you're really barking up the wrong tree.....Not one of my old friends have any inclination of voting yes simply because they don't want to, not because they're shy yes voters and scared that voicing their opinion will harm their career prospects......and the general consensus in their regiments is the same

     

    you might well find the notion of the pro-campaign talking down scottish young men not wanting to join an Scottish defence force insulting, but it doesn't make you correct, in this instance IMO the pro-union campaign are correct

    Edited by ajpoolshark
    missed out a word that totally changed the meaning....doh!
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    Posted
  • Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
  • Weather Preferences: Winter: Cold & Snowy, Summer: Just not hot
  • Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

    Interesting.....Nige now joins the pathetic partnerships of the Westminster Government!   (or at least he hopes to!) 

    What is it with these politicians?   Whenever they get a smell of the gravy train they revert to type.

    This is really worrying though.   Concocted for maximum effect.   Tensions will obviously be high and to add insult to injury. The world will be looking on.   Lets hope the YES voters can see it for what it is and manage to 'keep the heid!'

     

    Farage is just as much part of the gravy train elite as Cameron and co.! I'd imagine him supporting No will only really serve to drive people in the other direction.

    Edited by Nick L
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    sorry SS, but I think you're really barking up the wrong tree.....Not one of my old friends have any inclination of voting yes simply because they don't want to, not because they're shy yes voters and scared that voicing their opinion will harm their career prospects......and the general consensus in their regiments is the same

     

    you might well find the notion of the pro-campaign talking down scottish young men not wanting to join an Scottish defence force, but it doesn't make you correct, in this instance IMO the pro-union campaign are correct

     

    I'm not sure asking your friends is a very accurate poll.

     

    I know some Yes soldiers who are actively serving. It's not something they talk about other than with family normally.

     

    There is also a large veterans for indy group. Are they imaginary? What about the SNP veterans minister who fought in the falklands. Does he not exist? Did these people suddenly just become supportive of Scottish independence when they walked out onto civvy street?

     

    I find it quite insulting that the pro-union campaign put political views in the mouths of those who are not allowed to express overtly political views.

     

    It is particularly galling when god knows how many thousands of Scottish nationalists have died fighting in the British army, yet the pro-union campaign say they died for Britain. 

     

    So I'm not wrong. I stated that soldiers are more likely more pro-union than civilians. However, the idea that there is not at least a modestly sized group not adverse to or supportive of indy is silly.

     

    Have read here:

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-story-of-a-soldier-boy/

     

    The Story of a Soldier boy

     
    Signing up was easy and it wasn’t. On the application paperwork there was a tricky question. I put the form to one side and gave it some serious thought.
     
    rrr.png
     
    I was then advised that I was British and should fill the form in accordingly, to avoid any awkward questions on nationalism or holding “extreme viewsâ€.
     

     

    Here's the 'forces for Yes' facebook group.

     

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1516156021934834/

     

    The army requires the utmost loyalty. A soldier giving a view that might put their loyalty into question could find themselves in an awkward position. Right now that position could be very awkward.

    Edited by scottish skier
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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Related.

     

     

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/westminster-propaganda-war-to-encourage-armed-forces-to-vote-no.24607959

     

    Westminster propaganda war to encourage armed forces to vote 'No'
     
    WESTMINSTER has been accused of politicising the armed services after distributing pro-Union "propaganda" to all UK military personnel alongside reminders about registering to vote in the independence referendum.
     
    A leaked email obtained by the Sunday Herald shows that in April the Cabinet Office asked the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in April to "cascade" pro-Union material down through the ranks using direct email and internal websites. Civilian defence personnel were also issued with the material.

     

    So even the UK government agree that there are potential Yessers in the forces and are putting pressure on them as a result.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    I'm not sure asking your friends is a very accurate poll.

     

    I know some Yes soldiers who are actively serving. It's not something they talk about other than with family.

     

    There is also a large veterans for indy group. Are they imaginary? What about the SNP veterans minister who fought in the falklands. Does he not exist?

     

    I find it quite insulting that the pro-union campaign put political views in the mouths of those who are not allowed to express a political view.

     

    It is particularly galling when god knows how many thousands of Scottish naitonalists have died fighting in the British army, yet the pro-union campaign says they died for Britain.

     

    So I'm not wrong. I stated that soliders are more likely more pro-union than civilians. However, the idea that there is not at least a modestly sized group not adverse to or supportive of indy is silly.

     

    Have read here:

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-story-of-a-soldier-boy/

    *sigh* ok, so, in order

     

    why is it not a very accurate poll?.....is their opinion irrelevant?.......

     

    soldiers talk to their fellow soldiers far more than they do their families...unless you've served a good while then you probably wouldn't know this....(no disrespect intended, just stating it how it is)

     

    your 3rd point.......numbers?.....1560 facebook likes (not exactly a huge proportion of current and ex service personnel is it?....and how many of those likes are really from genuine service personnel

     

    Scottish personal who lost their lives during service died whilst honouring their oath of allegiance which is and I quote....

     

    "I... swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will, as in duty bound, honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, in Person, Crown and Dignity against all enemies, and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and of the generals and officers set over me."

     

    They died protecting Great Britain & Northern Ireland, they didn't swear a different oath stating that they protect just Scotland

     

    I don't often get annoyed by that many things on here, your post has me annoyed because it's so misinformed, and is yes propaganda IMO and not reality

     

    As i posted last night, I respect all views (as indeed I am a neutral in this debate) but I don't always agree with them and will call people on their views if I don't agree with them, as that is what healthy debate is all about as I'm sure you agree

    Edited by ajpoolshark
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  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    As we are about to turn our calendars to the month of September and the referendum day will be in range of the GFS is a couple of days time, and seeing this is actually a weather site and not a political one, I've started an IndyRef weather thread in the main weather discussion forum:

    http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/81276-scotland-indyref-weather/

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