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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Yes Balmaha the majority of the Yes side are united.The no side just want to hold our nation back whatever it takes.I have always wondered how people like John Reid and co can celebrate Irish independence.Yet would rather Scotland stayed in British state the Irish fought to get out of.But I suppose years of just turning up and getting elected to Westminster has turned these folk into mercenaries.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Agree with CMD about Murray. The LTA would obviously be desperate to hold the GB team together for a few more years at least, and would thus almost certainly try to claim that the World Group GB place belongs to it. Yet take out the Scottish Players and the Team Coach Leon Smith and you have a Scottish team that can be competitive in the world group, you can not currently say the same about the rUK team sadly.

    The sooner Tennis Scotland distances itself from the corrosive LTA the better, of 3 British Players to have made a top level impact in the last 20 years, 1 was Canadian, 1 was a Scot who was brought up outside the LTA system, Rafael Nadal was far more important than the LTA in Murray's development and the other, Henman an Englishman rejected by the LTA at an early age because his face didn't fit (lucky for him). Plus you now have the LTA in a legal dispute over racial discrimination with one of the most promising youngsters in England, Isaac Stoute.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Given that Great Britain is the island rather than the political entity, why would Scotland need a tennis team post-2016. Surely you just agree to leave things as they are.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Given that Great Britain is the island rather than the political entity, why would Scotland need a tennis team post-2016. Surely you just agree to leave things as they are.

    The structure of tennis in the UK under the LTA has hardly been a runaway success story! It's hardly a case of if it's not broken, don't fix it. As the commentators mentioned yesterday, Scotland - England Davis Cup ties would be good for tennis across GB.
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    The structure of tennis in the UK under the LTA has hardly been a runaway success story! It's hardly a case of if it's not broken, don't fix it. As the commentators mentioned yesterday, Scotland - England Davis Cup ties would be good for tennis across GB.

     

    Aye, when you think of the participation levels in tennis and then compare this to success on the international stage it's obvious that something goes wrong along the line. I'd like to live in a country which invested massively in sport, rather than bombs and bullets. Sport is a very good way to help prevent health issues in people. I know the argument is always "oh but some people don't like sport", how many six year olds don't love running about like a lunatic? Something gets lost somewhere along the way with how we deliver sport to kids.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Un named man....all they will disclose is his initals are AEAS.

     

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/278527-glasgow-gambler-puts-200000-on-a-no-vote-on-scottish-independence/

     

    Any idea's who it might be.... :rofl:

     

    You might like this:

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/against-all-odds/

     

     

    The Daily Record carries a story this evening [as per STV one] about a man placing a £200,000 bet with William Hill on a No vote in the independence referendum.
     
    “A punter is so sure of a No vote in the Independence referendum he has put a record £200,000 on the result.
     
    The bet equalled the biggest sum wagered on politics in the UK. The revelation came yesterday from bookie William Hill, where the gambler made three hefty bets on the status quo being maintained.
     
    The man, in his 50s, walked into a shop in Glasgow and put £30,000 on the counter, taking odds of 1/5 on a No vote. He then came back later that day and stuck on another £70,000.
     
    And the next day he turned up with another £100,000 in cash, which he stuck on despite the odds shortening to 1/6. If Scots vote to stay in the Union he will win £36,000.â€
     
    And readers might be forgiven for finding it a bit familiar.
     
     
    “A CUSTOMER IN A William Hill Glasgow betting shop has gambled £200,000 – believed to be the largest political bet ever struck – that the outcome of the 2014 Scottish Referendum will be a vote AGAINST Independence.
     
    ‘We have never taken a bigger bet than this on any political subject.’ said Hill’s spokesman Graham Sharpe. ‘The man, in his late fifties, with a pronounced Scottish accent, and a stranger to staff, struck one bet of £30,000 at odds of 1/5, then returned to place another, of £70,000 at the same odds, before placing a third, of £100,000 at odds by now shortened to 1/6. He stands to make a total profit of £36,666.’â€
     
    That second quote is from the William Hill website, almost exactly a year ago. 

     

     

     
    Bookies up to something or the media re-hashing an old story?
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: ILCHESTER
  • Location: ILCHESTER

    Who knows, but it does hsve a whiff of 'Bookies set to lose millions on Xmas Day snow'. There is rarely any truth in that, but this claim is slightly different. Would expect to see them laying some of this on the exchanges shortly if true.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Yes SS the plot thickens.Why are the Record putting this rubbish out when the bet was placed a year ago when the polls and odds were very different.Could it be to subliminaly suggest to the public that Yes had no chance.This causing the don't knows to go back to no as it appears the majority or norm is for no.There certainly is a sheep mentality amongst some laissez faire voters.Another cynical attempt by the no msm to lie to the public about the current situation.This will continue for the next 99 days I am afraid.This is a dishonest campaign at the heart of the no side.Did you hear Darling last night suggesting he had never mentioned Scotland not getting back into the EU.Did I mishear him over the last year? Also thought comparing Salmond to a North Korean communist dictator was simply a bit of fun and Salmond just had no sense of humour? The eyes were in twitch mode last night as he told lie after lie.The game is up for Yes as the no side are all going to offer Scotland something better if they are good boys and girls and do as they are told.I can't think of anything in the UK which is better than independence!

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    This is interesting. Again from that MORI poll...

     

    Based on what you have read, seen or heard, which of the campaigns do you think has been the most effective so far, if any?

    Men:
    57% Yes Scotland
    21% Better Together
    17% Neither
    5% DK

    Women:
    47% Yes Scotland
    24% Better Together
    16% Neither
    13% DK


    Almost identical apart from DK vs Yes. More reluctance amongst women to put their heads above the parapet and be labelled a 'blood and soil, anti-English separatist' etc?

     

    Looks increasingly to me that No has a big problem with women voters whom their self-named 'project fear' is primarily aimed at. After all, as noted before, it was a last minute swing (or honesty to pollsters?) by women that delivered the SNP majority and the referendum...

     

    As ICM showed, women are twice as likely to say they feel uncomfortable telling pollsters/people their voting intention.

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    Posted
  • Location: ILCHESTER
  • Location: ILCHESTER

    Talking of bookies...latest odds on NO now as short as 1/5 again, with a very clear lengthening of odds on YES across several bookies and the exchanges.

     

    Despite a good deal of scepticism/cynicism on here regarding the bookmakers odds, these are definately still trending in the wrong direction for YES supporters imo and this needs to start changing pdq.

     

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Talking of bookies...latest odds on NO now as short as 1/5 again, with a very clear lengthening of odds on YES across several bookies and the exchanges.

     

    Despite a good deal of scepticism/cynicism on here regarding the bookmakers odds, these are definately still trending in the wrong direction for YES supporters imo and this needs to start changing pdq.

     

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

     

    You're kind of over egging this approach surely?

     

    Posted Image

     

    Overall, the pattern has been a shortening of Yes odds over the past year. Some more Yes friendly pollsters reported and the odds shortened suddenly. Then we had some more No friendly pollsters report and they drifted a bit again back to the mean. 

     

    The idea that bookmakers or Joe the builder from Manchester has a unique insight into the minds of Scots is just silly. People are just following crude polling numbers. I mean look at 2011. 4 weeks away and William Hill have only a 14.3% probability of the SNP winning. Instead, SNP won a historic landslide with a share of the vote not seen in a UK election for 4 decades. 

     

    At the moment, bookies are giving a higher probability of a Yes 14.3 weeks away at 23.1% than they gave the SNP 4 weeks away from 2011, which if anything, suggests they figure a Yes is much more likely!

     

    Personally, I've put some cash on Yes as my first ever bet. If we get another panelbase poll showing a gap closure the odds will shorten again and may not drift back to where they are now if they keep following the long term trend of shortening.

     

    I do hope you aren't a gambling man BTW.  :wink:

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    Posted
  • Location: ILCHESTER
  • Location: ILCHESTER

    It's not something I'm over egging or saying will be right, but in my experience the bookies are rarely far wrong.  You (or perhaps it was others) have previously made reference to the bookies getting the SNP win badly wrong, so clearly it can happen, but unfortunately I see that as indicating a second lash up is even less likely...one thing they do well is learn from the very few mistakes they do make. 

     

    Moreover, it is equally silly and indeed naive to think the bookies do not have a serious insight into what is going on, just because it is happening in Scotland and most are England based does not mean to say there will not be all over this like a cheap suit.

     

    Once the YES odds hit 4/5 I will believe there is a genuine chance of it happening, but whilst many of the firms are as big as 1/5 on NO I will be keeping my pound in my wallet.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    You'll need to wait to 4-0 weeks out before you can really conclude anything. 

     

    I'm sorry, but it seems more that you wish the bookies are right and that's it. They couldn't have been more wrong about 2011. 

     

    -----

     

    Ok, since we're doing 'anecdotal' evidence.
     
    Respective facebook campaign page likes per day compared to pre-official campaign normal levels.
     
    YesScotland
    669(+409) likes/day
     
    Better Together
    178(+35) likes/day
     
    Share of new likes/day
    79% YesScotland
    21% Better Together
     
    Total likes
    55.1% YesScotland
    44.9% Better Together
     
    What's particularly impressive is BT have spent a fortune on online adverts, quite a few of which trick you into liking their page. From Youtube to Facebook itself.
     
    Normally they say something like "Want to know more about the referendum? Click here for more information". If you do so and follow their links, you can can find yourself on their facebook and that you've inadvertently liked it.
     
    Happened to quite a few people I know.
     
    As far as I'm aware, YesScotland have done no online advertising. All likes/visitors have made their own way there.
     
    What is hilarious, is that BT adverts, while causing a spike in likes/day for BT, also caused spikes for YesScotland; like a Coke advert that causes a big surge in Pepsi sales!
     
    The huge surge in activity, most of it centred around Yes, does suggest that people are now starting to really pay attention.
     
    Latest poll is 46Y/54N as we move forward into the proper campaign.
     
    Men are now voting Yes, with polls showing parity or Yes ahead here. Will the ladies follow as they did in 2011 is the question!

     

    It may be that we need to wait until 4 weeks ahead of the vote again though before we start to see what will happen. Could be very frustrating!

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Anyway, No campaign starting to fight amongst themselves big style as they scabble in panic at the potential loss of their places at the trough.

     

    Good old El Gordo! He's taking no prisoners and he knows best. Gordon always knows best. Nobody else comes anywhere close to him in Gordon's mind.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27779131

     

    Scottish independence: MP 'anger' over Brown debate call
     
    Several Scottish Labour MPs have expressed anger at a call by former PM Gordon Brown for David Cameron to debate Scotland's first minister.

     

     

    Anger is putting it mildly.

     

    Derek Bateman sums up the disaster nicely.

     

    http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/06/10/hes-escaped/

     

    ...There may be no escape from this now as Gordon isn’t someone you can appeal to for understanding. He’s out there now, unleashed like Godzilla, tearing up the ground and taking no prisoners. There will now be a section of BT whose job is to monitor his activities, avoid diary clashes, keep him and Alastair apart, and devise media lines to cover up the discord. (I should imagine Yes might ask when we will see Alastair and Gordon together in the campaign). It isn’t just at general elections where the public don’t like internal splits. If they think there is a divided leadership in the No campaign, that they are just jostling egos and that’s why they want the Union – to keep them in power – they will recoil and be more receptive to Yes arguments. The No side tried unsuccessfully to paint Yes as squabbling SNP and others and now find their own side undermined in the same way.

     
    If Brown carries on like this, it could be the unforeseen element that changes the game. Telling him to stop will only enrage him further. It’s time to reach for the elephant gun.

     

     

     

    EDIT.

     

    And the pro-union campaign 'Better Together' is no more.

     

    Now we have the uber positive 'NO THANKS'

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27779131

     

    We might ask why? I thought Better Together was winning the arguments and on course for a win? Why back to the drawing board?

     

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    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Now we have the uber positive 'NO THANKS'.

    Well that's closer to the truth: "No Scotland" would be apt given what many Labour MPs want to see, one nation, one policy etc.
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Well that's closer to the truth: "No Scotland" would be apt given what many Labour MPs want to see, one nation, one policy etc.

     

    I think they should make a series of posters showing British institutions,famous places etc vs Scottish ones all with 'No Thanks' on them and see how they get on.

     

    Palace of Westminster - No Thanks

    Trident - No Thanks

    Eton Tories - No Thanks

    Bedroom Tax - No Thanks

     

    vs

     

    Edinburgh Castle - No thanks

    Holyrood - No thanks

    Scottish School system - No thanks

    Scottish Law - No thanks

     

    Did nobody think of this?

     

    They can't put that slogan against anything other than maybe a picture of the very popular Alex Salmond. 

     

    EDIT

     

    Actually, they are holding onto Better Together in part still. So, the new campaign is called:

     

    Better Together - NO THANKS

     

    I'm still not sure if they will be e.g. showing a big union flag behind their NO THANKS logo or a saltire.
     
    Decisions, decisions…
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Just going back to the news that someone has bet £200,000 for a NO vote outcome in the referendum. How does anyone put such large amount of money at the bookies without anyone being suspicious about where the money has come from, surely the bookies would have had to have the bet verified at some level, i.e their head office. Just sounds fishy to me, is this story really legit...or has there been a large amount placed on a YES outcome that the bookies need to counterbalance the potential outlay?

     

    I really try not to be cynical, but.....

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Hi Mark the bet was put on a year ago.So effectively its just been dug out of the archives by someone with an agenda.The problem is that a lot of people just see the headline and only by reading the story do you get the detail.Quite what they hope to achieve is anyone's guess.I suppose its just another very desperate attempt by the unionists to make them look like easy winners.Things like this are just par for the course on the no side.Nothing is off limits when Darling thinks its a chuckle to compare Scotland's first minister to a communist dictator.Prince Charles got a harder time for calling Putin a Nazi.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    He didn't call him a Nazi. He said he acted like the Nazis and was comparing Crimea with the Sudetenland.

     

    Darling's words:

     

    Posted Image

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/inaudible-mumble-amplified/comment-page-1/

     

    So, at the moment, 40%-65% of Scots are blood and soil nazi nationalists (based on those currently saying they'll vote Yes and those in SSAS survey's who have said they'd vote Yes under certain circumstances) says the man who doesn't like / has a problem with foreigners.

     

    “We’ve got friends and relations north and south of the border and we don’t want to make each other foreigners.â€
    - Alistair Darling, Euronews, 31 August 2012
     
    “We have the spectacle of a hard line nationalist saying ‘you will still be British after independence’. If you are no longer part of the UK how can you be British? Your friends in Wales, your family in England and your workmates from Northern Ireland will, effectively and overnight, become foreigners.â€
    - Alistair Darling, John P Mackintosh lecture, 10 November 2012
     
    “Alistair Darling will today accuse the SNP of attempting to ‘turn family into foreigners’ with its plan to break up Britain.â€
    - The Times, 14 February 2013
     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/foreigner-watch/

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie

    No Thanks? Really? That's got to be a gift to the Yes campaign and might make me start to believe the `they dont really want to win it` conspiracy theories.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.

    The Telegraph (apparently according to a post by BT) is running the story that a women, who had a disabled child, that spoke at the better together conference has been attacked online.

    My post isn't really about that particular incident. There are millions of people online, stuff will be said etc on both sides. The point is that it does seem a rather devisive issue.

    Obviously it's a big deal but frankly everyone should have their own opinion and keep it , publicly, to themselves.

    Online forums fine. That is a place designated to debate.

    It's more the in your face nature of it. Facebook now is riddled with either a blue sticker with 'Naw' or 'Yes' on their DP. I hate that.

    Walking past the 'kelpies' near Falkirk on Sunday I noticed a barge with 'yes' stickers and there is just no need. Walking through Tesco today in Dumfries, saw 2 UKOK stickers and 1 better together sticker and that annoyed me aswell (admittedly not as much due to my bias but I still didn't want to see it)

    I just feel we aren't American, we are normally not in your face with election campaigns, we have privacy usually in how we vote and our own politics unless asked.

    I'm not for one second saying ban all advertising, definitely not. What I am saying is like a GE, it should be more modest. I don't want to see vote Conservative in peoples windows, neither SNP etc. I don't understand how having a red rose at te corner of your DP on facebook is needed or a green tree.

    People of course are entitled to free speech and freedom of movement so I can't stop them but find the whole thing lacking class and dignity from both sides.

    Also, I've had enough. We have debated this subject as a country for seemingly ages now. These 100 days (a bit less I know) can't come quick enough. I normally enjoy politics and debates etc but I must have watched probably 50 hours of debate on the subject, now I can't avoid the subject, even if for 1 or 2 days I want to do so.

    Edited by SW Saltire
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    Posted
  • Location: Paris suburbs
  • Location: Paris suburbs

    As far as I'm aware, YesScotland have done no online advertising. All likes/visitors have made their own way there.

     

    This isn't true. I've liked neither but both sides' Facebook pages come up on my newsfeed as 'sponsored' all the time. A Facebook page's posts can also reach the newsfeeds of those who haven't liked it if their friends have commented on or liked a post that the page has posted. 

     

    And yes I agree with the above post, it's not that the referendum is generating lots of media coverage that annoys me, because given its significance it should generate such interest, it's more that the campaigns are very in-your-face, and I feel like it's turning quite divisive. I'm almost glad I'm moving to Belgium in August so I won't to endure the final stretch...

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