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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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So, after a week of supporting the No campaign officially to all intents and purposes, the BBC finally 'suspends' its membership of the official No campaigning CBI.

 

Interesting. First time I've come across a case of someone / a business 'suspending' its membership of organisation.

 

I've heard of organisations suspending members, but the other way around?

 

Anyway, BBC obviously approves of the CBI and how it has acted. Otherwise it would have resigned like STV etc.

 

http://archive.today/jNWLr

 

EDIT

 

Hey, wait a minute.

 

It hasn't suspended its membership.

 

It says it's going to from the 30th of May.

 

So, BBC a member of an official pro-union campaigning organisation for now. Will remain so during the campaigning time proper, but 'suspended'.

 

Silly me to take a BBC headline literally.

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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Yes SS the crazy thing is they think they can just rejoin after the vote.In other words our national broadcaster has decided there isn't going to be independence! What planet are they on.Independence = No CBI as it will be a defunct British Org.So it follows that BBC are all but admitting they want a no vote and the suspension is just a token empty gesture.Do they take us for utter fools or are they really really dim?

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Its OK, nothing to see here, apparently the CBI registering with the electoral commission was all just a mistake. Some 'junior' official did it and it wasn't passed at board level so theve applied to have the registration nullified. What a farce, the evil side of me hope the electoral commission tell them "no can do, you're now registered and need to stay registered".

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Its OK, nothing to see here, apparently the CBI registering with the electoral commission was all just a mistake. Some 'junior' official did it and it wasn't passed at board level so theve applied to have the registration nullified. What a farce, the evil side of me hope the electoral commission tell them "no can do, you're now registered and need to stay registered".

 

Aye. 'CBI resigns from itself'

 

These are the 'captains of British industry'.

 

Anyway, damage done. CBI now even more of a joke. There's no digging out of this hole.

 

I wonder if the BBC will now suspend its intended suspension of its membership of the CBI? In advance of course as it's not actually suspended itself from the organisation that has just suspended itself. No resigned. No, hold on, withdrawn its suspension in anticipation of it being permitted to withdraw.

 

Och, you know what I mean.

 

Meanwhile... Ed flew up and had a public meeting today somewhere in Motherwell. Problem is, none of the public seem to know exactly where the meeting was. It happened though apparently.

 

One of the big pledges was to 'end zero hour contracts', following in the footsteps of Tony.

 

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Innadvertantly CBI have actually done more damage to themselves.Once the genies out of the bottle its best to live by your convictions.Trying to put the genie back in and pretend it was never out just makes them look like a shower of incompetents.And they want to represent Scottish business? It all looks like a worse cover up than Archie Macphersons comb over.Its good to see British institutions held up by better together as UK benefits doing so much damage to business relations in Scotland.Time to get rid of these incompetent liars once and for all in September.

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Nick it might have a dramatic effect on small businesses in Scotland now voicing their counter opinion.A lot of people are angry at the CBI for trying to influence the debate but being dishonest to the public.

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Not the greatest hour for the CBI. It's all a bit of a shambles and you'd expect better but in the cold light of day I doubt this fiasco will have much bearing on peoples votes.

 

Of course Nick. I doubt anyone who was a firm No Tory voter has suddenly jumped ship simply in response to the CBI fiasco.

 

It's more that it forms part of an ongoing narrative. One where the credibility of British institutions continues to crumble, from the BBC to the CBI.

 

Derek Bateman describes it well.

 

 

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/04/25/keep-your-clothes-on/

 

What once came over as all-powerful and all-knowing has broken down under a long campaign into a shambolic embarrassing mess. There are signs every day now of the failure of the establishment to remain calm and to reassure. As each corner falls off, the credibility of the institutions and people in whom we invested faith, willingly or otherwise, evaporates and with it, electoral support. 

 

 

As for Ed's flying visit to a secret location in Motherwell for his 'public meeting' where the public was of course hand-picked activists; this carton sums up the reaction if listening to callers on Radio Scotland's GMS was anything to go by.

 

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'We don't believe Labour any more'... 'I'm never voting Labour again and now I'm Yes'.... 'Blair'.... 'New Labour'... 'Don't know that they stand for'...

 

They struggled to get any No voters on the line. The presenter even said so in a flummoxed way. The ones they did manage to bring on just came out with irrational emotional 'We canny dae it! We just cannae! Vote No!' cringe-worthy stuff.

 

Also, the poll closure is now being reflected in people's own perceptions. I have colleagues at work telling me many of their friends are all now suddenly announcing they are Yes after being No before. My wife is reporting the same thing from her friends; previously the subject was controversial and people avoided it, now the bulk are openly saying they are Yes. 

 

Much of this is down to the pro-union campaign destroying its own case and credibility.

 

Jeez, Ed even firmly stated how as PM he'd never agree to a currency union with Scotland if it voted Yes. In Motherwell! Labour heartlands FGS. No wonder the callers on GMS were raging. It's not so much the argument, but the attitude.

 

We've had a drip become a steady stream with respect to senior, old and normally retired Labour figures coming out for Yes. Rumours grow of a large group of current figures, likely to include actual serving MSPs, gathering with intent to come out for Yes as the main campaigning period begins. With Yes amongst core Labour - those that voted Labour 2011 - now hitting new highs of 30%+ in polls, the one force holding the union together tenuously appears to be finally crumbling.

 

As noted in a previous post, if we simply forward project based on current trends, then we can expect polls in the coming month to show parity with Yes slightly ahead in some. An ostensibly massive No lead (late 2012-2013) gone with Better Together very much on the back foot as we enter the campaign proper.

 

Oh, and of course we have the UKIP factor next month when ~50% of the rUK votes Tory (Tory + UKIP).

 

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EDIT

 

From the Scotsman. Ooch.

 

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There should be no independence vote at all, there should have been no devolution. We want a United Kingdom.

 

Hi Billy.

 

I wondered if you'd pop in.

 

Don't you mean there should be no EU vote? Surely we want a united Europe?

 

I must admit I'm slightly puzzled. On the other threads you are busy telling people how they shouldn't vote Lib / Tory / Lab and instead vote for 'independence' to 'take back sovereignty for our country' etc.

 

Scotland's already well advanced here, so there's no need to give such advice. 

 

As a UKIP voter, you / they might want to learn some lessons from the SNP. While policy-wise in terms of left/right etc the SNP and UKIP are chalk and cheese, the SNP were once a fringe party labelled 'xenophobic, racists, separatists' and have been subject to continuous smear / assaults from the British media for my entire life. 

 

Meanwhile, UKIP have an outside chance of finally not losing a deposit in Scotland in the forthcoming EU elections. Polls suggest they might do a little better than the 5% they got in 2009. Problem they have is this comes from the Tory vote, splitting it. Given the dominance of the SNP - who are likely to +1 from the Libs and take 3/6 - with Labour a strong second, the d'hondt counting method means people voting UKIP are voting SNP and unless they give a really strong showing, the erosion of the Tory vote will drop it below 10% and handing a further seat to the SNP to give 4/6.

 

The problem is the lack of solidly 'British' people in Scotland. Only 17% pick British in forced choice natID (Scottish, British or other). This creates a rather small voter pool for British/English nationalist parties such as the Tories and UKIP. So, either way, Scotland will end up with a max of one 'Tory' MEP again, be this Tory-Blue or Tory-purple. It might even lose that due to 'A vote for UKIP is a vote for the SNP' problem.

 

As for the 2015 GE. If I was UKIP, I'd look for a credible economic plan. That and a charismatic / convincing leader.

 

*Just 2% of UKIP voters think the party has a decent economic plan and only 5% rate Farage as the main reason people vote UKIP. Otherwise, it's a protest party over the EU and immigration only. Lots of work to do here for UKIP.

 

The SNP used to have the same problem - seen as a 'one trick pony'. Takes time to build credibility here - decades in fact.

 

All the best with that. It's very hard when the entire British establishment / media is out to get you. Can be done though as the SNP demonstrate.

 

*See Q5 here:

 

http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/ST_april14_poll.pdf

 

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EDIT.

 

Oh and for Scotland, better PR is needed.

 

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John Smith - Scotland’s lost leader

LABOUR should invoke the memory of John Smith in the battle to save the UK, says the former Labour leader’s press officer Mike Elrick.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/mike-elrick-john-smith-scotland-s-lost-leader-1-3390083

 

A very poignant article, but I can't help thinking that invoking the memories of Smith and Dewar rather encapsulates the dreadful mess Scottish Labour now finds itself in.

 

Bish

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SS, UKIP are campaigning for independence from Europe intervention, the SNP are campaigning to break up the UK, which would be a disaster.

 

Salmond wants the Euro and mass immigration from Bulgaria and Romania, driving wages down and bringing in more unskilled labour, with the potential for civil disorder.

 

Within 2-3 years of independence, Scotland would be like one of the Southern European basket cases only without the weather.

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-salmond-s-immigration-vow-1-3198028

 

Most people's interpretation of that is that Salmond will introduce further immigration from the EU, he seems to be coy about the issue because he knows that so many will oppose it.

 

Many businesses are now coming forward and warning that independence will be a disaster for Scotland.

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You don't seem particularly familiar with Scotland Billy. 

 

UKIP wish to end the Scottish Parliament. That puts them at odds with around 94% of the Scottish electorate. Goes some way to explain how they came 8th place in the last Scottish General Election being out-polled by the Scottish Senior Citizens Unity Party.

 

Polls also consistently show Scotland would vote to remain in the EU. That's been somewhat historically at odds with England although I note that recent polls south of the border increasingly show less opposition to the EU with support for 'out' decreasing. Some polls have 'in' ahead now.

 

I'm not aware of the bulk of businesses in Scotland be either pro- nor anti- Scottish independence. The FSB - which represents the bulk of Scottish businesses - remains neutral on the matter. We have Business for Scotland which is up to some 1800 members now who are pro-indy. The only business organisation to back the No campaign is a British one based in London. Neglecting to consult its members on this stance it is now backtracking rapidly after a large number of major Scottish members resigned (Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise, Visit Scotland, all the big universities etc) as they did not agree with it's anti-independence stance. An utter farce and makes people wonder whether Britain's 'Captain's of industry' are up to the job as they can't even run a quango properly.

 

As for the pro's and con's of independence. There's little point in going over this ground; people have three years worth of thread to read through with every possible aspect discussed. Recently, the thread has moved towards current campaigning, polls and events which may influence the final outcome. The next of course is the EU elections in a month. If you are a big fan of the union, then pray hard that UKIP do really badly in these. If they win, it is likely they will help deliver Thatcher's legacy; the end of the union. She worked hard here was a whisker away from ending Britain. A referendum on independence in 1997-8 would have delivered >60% Yes based on polls at the time. Only Labour managed to save the union with Devolution. Nigel may yet succeed where she failed.

 

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EDIT

 

Another  major problem for UKIP in Scotland is also the total lack of organisation and constant in-fighting, never mind only a tiny fraction of people (2%) consider them as having any economic credibility (Telegraph poll). 

 

 
Ukip at war in Scotland
 
Sunday 17 November 2013
 
UKIP in Scotland is in "turmoil" after six of its nine European candidates quit amid allegations of dirty tricks and claims an ally of UK leader Nigel Farage was unfairly helped in the contest.
 
 
 
Fatwa' bans former Ukip chairman from party for 100 years
 
UKIP Scotland's former chairman has been suspended from the party for 100 years as a "fatwa" for speaking to the Sunday Herald.
 
Paul Henke, who had confirmed making a complaint about a colleague to this newspaper, has been barred from the party until his 163rd birthday.
 
Ukip, the anti-European Union anti-immigration party led by Nigel Farage, has enjoyed electoral success in England and Wales but is in the throes of a civil war north of the Border.

 

 
 
I'd suggest you focus your efforts on your countrymen. Scotland just isn't fertile ground. Every time a UKIPer talks about Scotland, another few 1000 Yes votes are generated. 
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Don't feed this troll SS.Recently we have got into a credible and respectful debate on this site.Where people with some intelligence and respect can talk to each other without dropping bombs and running.This guy is just another krank.I am giving the benefit of the doubt.If he actually believes the stuff he is coming out with.Then there is another village missing its idiot and it should be reported to the police that their idiot has now been found safe and well.

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Yes, that's why we have more giant pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs. They got 13% at the last Scottish General Election.

 

FYI - Scotland's electorate is represented by 4% of Westminster MPs.

 

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Oh, this just popped onto my twitter feed. Appropriate.

 

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There should be no independence vote at all, there should have been no devolution. We want a United Kingdom.

Who exactly is this we that your talking about? The Scottish electorate will get the ability to decide if they want to remain as part of a United Kingdom in Sept. As far as I can see from comments on most articles of the online versions of the main newspapers there's plenty of English that will be more than happy to see Scotland leave.You may wish to retain a United Kingdom (although many would challenge if it is really united) but let's leave it to a democratic vote to decide if we do.
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Yes SS that map clearly illustrates that Scotland is a different nation to England.We always have been its just that our opinions tend to get ignored or the UK is England scenario has been the norm.We are not all the same and trying to ignore or pretend that Scotland is not different is the standard trick of unionist MPs. We often hear the old one...I have as much in common with someone from Birkenhead,Manchester and Leeds ..so independence is not the answer.The part they miss is that Scotland is a nation.Its one thing a city or region being ignored or disenfranchised.Entirely another for a whole nation to be disenfranchised by London rule.Aberdeen might vote Labour and Dundee SNP but they are both Scottish.Manchester and London might vote differently but they are both English cities.The north of England is a region of England.Scotland is a nation so we can claim a legitimate democratic defecit as the nation of Scotland!

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November, Maggie would have never allowed devolution. We are stronger together. Scotland have a large number of MPs who can influence the outcome of Westminster general elections.

:oops:  :rofl: Brilliant billy. Keep it up .

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