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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I'v been banging on about the London/South East issue for years.

     

    I lived in London for 2.5 years around ten years ago and I can honestly say hand on heart that I have never lived in such a "non British" place in my life.

     

    Did I feel like I lived in the Capital city of my country?, not a bit of it. The lack of manners and unfriendliness in that city stands in poor comparison to cities in Scotland and here in Northern Ireland.

     

    Anyway, I notice that the Grangemouth shutdown drags on and the Scottish Government is looking for a buyer. I wondered if the Scottish Government has it in its power to Nationalise it?, but devolved to Scotland.

     

    Would be a handy thing to own come Independence, to increase profitabilty as we sell energy for profit to England and other European states.

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    FWIW I do think there should be a full North South High Speed line reaching at least the central belt and not just providing access to London, but easy connections to HS1 and transcontinental services, ideally some services through the tunnel from Scotland - irrespective of independence or not. However HS2 increasingly looks like the wrong concept for the wrong reasons and funding it as UK infrastructure when it patently is not is a disgrace. 

     

    I'm basically of the same opinion as I've said in previous posts. Scottish government should get population share of HS2 funding to do what it deems best for Scotland. This can be upgrading Scotland's rail network to HS with an eye on that connecting to an rUK one in the future. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     

    Anyway, I notice that the Grangemouth shutdown drags on and the Scottish Government is looking for a buyer. I wondered if the Scottish Government has it in its power to Nationalise it?, but devolved to Scotland.

     

     

    It can wholly or part nationalise it if it wants. Needs to pay an agreed price for it though. I'd support it taking a controlling stake (51%+) as per Statoil and Norway and keeping that stake.

     

    Scottish government just privatised nationalised (doh) Prestwick Airport. Whether that remains nationalised depends on various factors.

     

    http://archive.is/3CVU6

     

    Prestwick Airport to be nationalised in bid to safeguard jobs

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    See this is the problem i have with governments like the SNP. I'm pragmatic enough to understand that some things are best run partly nationalised but when the reason given is "to safeguard jobs" as opposed to because it's a strategic asset and there's no alternative then it just starts to look like a left wing government is going for ideology, the royal mail being another example although i accept the greater rural proportion of people probably gives Scotland more merit.

    Edited by summer blizzard
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Erm, it's both safeguarding jobs and having control over an important asset. 

     

    Without the workforce, the asset is just a rather worthless pile of metal.

     

    And in Scotland, it is the right/Tories who historically prefer to use e.g. oil cash to fund putting people out of work and onto welfare for the long term. The SNP in contrast want to use some of it to invest in incentives for new business (e.g. infrastructure, SDI incentives) and putting some away for a rainy day. Tories = spend spend spend, borrow borrow borrow + create unemployment. SNP = fiscally conservative... get best value for each penny (e.g. end of PFI and instead Scottish Futures Trust).

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Privatisation hasen't worked for our railways!

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Its ok to renationalise something providing there is a long term incentive to do so.

     

    Grangemouth - In an independent Scotland with a surplus of energy it makes real sense to hold onto a large processing site like Grangemouth, which can be used as an energy HUB. I fully envisage an independent Scotland being able to expand on the renewable sector, just as the French/Chinese are now the Nuclear experts.

     

    Prestwick - Investment needed, however an Independent Scotland will be able to fund investment to increase transatlantic competition, particularly in the transport of packages etc.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Privatisation hasen't worked for our railways!

     

    That's largely because they are franchised and have moderation of competition clauses included in the contract prohibiting competition (i.e public monopoly became private monopoly). Where competition has been aloud there have been operators like Grand Central who operate newer trains, win customer service awards and have very reasonable prices. You should also remember that it is in the governments interests to screw you here as well. When you buy a ticket at a station and pay through the roof its because they give you an open ticket rather than simply ask 'what service would you like' and it benefits government because Network Rail gets some of its funding via ticket sales.

     

    It's a mess but as with energy it's not solely private business that is to blame.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Its ok to renationalise something providing there is a long term incentive to do so.

     

    Grangemouth - In an independent Scotland with a surplus of energy it makes real sense to hold onto a large processing site like Grangemouth, which can be used as an energy HUB. I fully envisage an independent Scotland being able to expand on the renewable sector, just as the French/Chinese are now the Nuclear experts.

     

    Prestwick - Investment needed, however an Independent Scotland will be able to fund investment to increase transatlantic competition, particularly in the transport of packages etc.

     

     

    Erm, it's both safeguarding jobs and having control over an important asset. 

     

    Without the workforce, the asset is just a rather worthless pile of metal.

     

    And in Scotland, it is the right/Tories who historically prefer to use e.g. oil cash to fund putting people out of work and onto welfare for the long term. The SNP in contrast want to use some of it to invest in incentives for new business (e.g. infrastructure, SDI incentives) and putting some away for a rainy day. Tories = spend spend spend, borrow borrow borrow + create unemployment. SNP = fiscally conservative... get best value for each penny (e.g. end of PFI and instead Scottish Futures Trust).

     

    You've made fair points but my question then comes back to the alternatives. Why is it necessary to take ownership of this airport rather than having either closing the airport and having the services go from Glasgow?

     

    I'm not saying that it can't be rescued and made profitable but it seems to me that this is the state taking control of an asset which appears to be non-essential.

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Grangemouth is essential to an independent Scotland.Not essential to the UK though.This is a priority for Scotland and is a national asset.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Grangemouth is essential to an independent Scotland.Not essential to the UK though.This is a priority for Scotland and is a national asset.

     

    Oh yes, i do class energy as being essential.

     

    I was talking about the minor airport.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
     

    I'm not saying that it can't be rescued and made profitable but it seems to me that this is the state taking control of an asset which appears to be non-essential.

     

    Clearly, the Scottish government haven't been going around buying up assets willy-nilly. They've decided it's worth nationalising, even if only temporarily.

     

    If you have a look into Prestwick, you'll see there's a lot to it; much more than just the no frills airline part. The site involves air cargo, search and rescue, military use (the runway is really long meaning it can can take all sorts of large, heavy lift aircraft). It also has a lot of flights coming in and out of it. It is an ideal diversion site for Edinburgh and Glasgow too in the event of problems landing there.

     

    Just because the private sector ran it into trouble (as happens all too often, e.g. Grangemouth petrochemicals) doesn't mean it's not an asset.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Grangemouth is essential to an independent Scotland.Not essential to the UK though.This is a priority for Scotland and is a national asset.

     

     

    Just to make clear that it's not the refinery (which supplies fuels to Scotland, N England an d N. Ireland) that's an issue (that's got a secure market), but the attached petrochemical plant (which makes chemical feedstocks) which is losing money due to private sector mismanagement chasing short-term profits. They should have invested more in it and made sure the gas supply was secure (the gas content of Forties oil is lower than in the past and cheap shale gas in the states is bring down prices over there making feedstocks cheaper to produce).

     

    The current battle has Falkirk Labour (yes, it's all to do with that mess instigated by London Labour trying to tell it's North British branch who it wants to replace Joyce) on one side and the Tories apparently colluding with Ineos on the other.

     

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/8196-collusion-between-ineos-and-uk-government-over-grangemouth-plant-dispute-claims-mp

     

    Nice to know the Tories are working with the private sector and Labour the unions in an attempt to put Scotland in the crap.

     

    Thankfully, we have the Scottish Government to sort it out. I won't be surprised if they part nationalise it with a majority stake, at least in the refinery.

     

    Given the strong majority support for nationalisation of such key industries, would be a smart move. After all, if Inoes are saying it's not worth much (to try and extract taxpayers money in bailouts and/or get more profits by reducing wages etc), then the Scottish government can get it for a song.

     

    I wonder if Ineos / the Tories are aware Scots don't really go for panic buying? Back in spring 2012 there wasn't really any at all in Scotland and so supplies were fine in contrast to other areas.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17567151

     

    Compared with increased fuel demand in England of more than 170%, in Scotland the rise in demand is about 10%.

     

    Maybe Scots were following the simple 'Tory golden rule' which rarely if ever fails you. Basically if the Tories say something is bad, then you can be almost positive it's good for you, and vice versa. Likewise, if they say you should do something, then you can be sure it will not be in your interests to do that. In this case they said 'stock up on fuel now' so only Tory voters went and did that in Scotland and the rule proved true once again.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Not sure of the details, but Major is a pragmatist. He was one of those that said devolution would lead to Scottish independence.

     

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100242550/sir-john-major-on-bastards-and-europe-will-the-tory-wars-never-end/

     

    the Tories would be better off without Scotland.

     

    Yes John, but that's exactly what senior Tories are working for now. The clues are all there. Be patient. Next month it should all become a lot clearer.

     

    The tail will no longer wag the dog.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Aye, Major was the last statesman in my book.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Aye, Major was the last statesman in my book.

     

     

    He has previously advocated significantly more devolution for Scotland after losing the argument against it back in 1997 by a huge margin (obviously).

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640

     

    In a rare intervention into politics, former Prime Minister Sir John Major calls for the Scottish Parliament to be given powers to control everything except foreign affairs, defence and the economy.
     
    Sir John warned against the dangers of devolution before the 1997 election. Today he calls for what some call "devo max".
     
     
    He understands the situation well. He predicted back in 1997 ahead of the devolution referendum what is happening now would happen (not mentioning that a return of the Tories as per 2010 would likely be the final straw). Labour were too arrogant to see it. For them Scotland would always be their fiefdom and the Scottish parliament just a talking shop in which the SNP could never get a majority due to PR and thus it would 'kill nationalism stone dead' to paraphrase Lord Robertson.
     
    EDIT. Looks like UKIP are out tonight on the Major telegraph article.Posted Image
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    If the voters of Dunfermline return the Labour candidate at this bi-election then I will despair for their intelligence. The Labour candidate has blatantly lied on their leaflet about what SLAB set up ,approves of intends to maintain. The lies are quite shocking. Yet where is the condemnation on Radio Scotland this morning. They chose to talk about a fringe event on how to laugh at the independence referendum. Too which all three presenters chuckled. Is it just me is BBC Scotland filled with crass ,gormless and downright unionist presenters. One of the things on the SLAB leaflet asked : "Why the SNP had chosen not to stop the bedroom tax"...answer this is a withheld power. Absolute and utter lies. Yet there is no call for them to answer to this in the mainstream media. Salmond would be pinned against a wall by every man and his dog for that kind of lie. I despair I really do!

    Edited by November13
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Can't believe Grangemouth Petrochemical site is to close with the loss of 800 jobs plus numerous sub contractors.

     

    The SNP can make huge political milage here by nationalising it an ensuring the Scottish population know who is to blame for this latest development.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    It's only repeating what is being said everywhere else, but interesting to see this in the Hootsman:

     

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/lesley-riddoch-different-standards-apply-here-1-3149193

     

    If Grangemouth is nationalised then I think Alex Salmond's grin will explode off his face. He keeps getting gifted these opportunities :good:

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Yes I suspect the wheels are already in motion to nationalise the plant. The SNP will step up to the plate!

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    Posted
  • Location: Glasgow Southside 30m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Summer: Warm/Dry enough for a t-shirt. Winter: Cold enough for a scarf.
  • Location: Glasgow Southside 30m ASL.

    That's largely because they are franchised and have moderation of competition clauses included in the contract prohibiting competition (i.e public monopoly became private monopoly). Where competition has been aloud there have been operators like Grand Central who operate newer trains, win customer service awards and have very reasonable prices. You should also remember that it is in the governments interests to screw you here as well. When you buy a ticket at a station and pay through the roof its because they give you an open ticket rather than simply ask 'what service would you like' and it benefits government because Network Rail gets some of its funding via ticket sales.

     

    It's a mess but as with energy it's not solely private business that is to blame.

     

    Such competition will only benefit places where there is a profit to be made. In many parts of Scotland (and I dare say parts of England) there simply doesn't exist a large enough population or market for profit to be made. In addition, these profits then leave the industry, meaning that tax payers money has to be used to subsidise the non profit making sectors. If those profits then remained in the railway, they could be used to shore up the non-profit making areas instead.

     

    Private involvement in the railway (or any transport sector) is short sighted and takes absolutely no account that public transport is about providing a public service.

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    Posted
  • Location: Glasgow Southside 30m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Summer: Warm/Dry enough for a t-shirt. Winter: Cold enough for a scarf.
  • Location: Glasgow Southside 30m ASL.

    Yes I suspect the wheels are already in motion to nationalise the plant. The SNP will step up to the plate!

     

    I'm starting to wonder that myself. Salmond was on one of the news channels talking about their contingency plans should Ineos attempt to close the plant. Was trying to work out what they might be, but I think that could be it. 

     

    Question being however, that without borrowing powers, could the Scottish government afford to do this without UK government help?

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    I'm starting to wonder that myself. Salmond was on one of the news channels talking about their contingency plans should Ineos attempt to close the plant. Was trying to work out what they might be, but I think that could be it.  Question being however, that without borrowing powers, could the Scottish government afford to do this without UK government help?

    It will mainly be the operating costs in the short term. Ineos have as much as said the plant is worthless. They would be morally bankrupt if they tried to price the value of the plant in a way that would make it impossible to find a buyer. Buying the plant is not the difficult part it is trying to run it after that. But if it can be sold as a going concern then a buyer could be found in a few months.
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    Posted
  • Location: New York City
  • Location: New York City

    I'm starting to wonder that myself. Salmond was on one of the news channels talking about their contingency plans should Ineos attempt to close the plant. Was trying to work out what they might be, but I think that could be it.  Question being however, that without borrowing powers, could the Scottish government afford to do this without UK government help?

    Or"We really want to nationalise it but we can't because we're not allowed/we can't borrow money like a proper government/Westminster doesn't like it, so 800 people can lose their jobs and you can all pay 10p more for petrol"Sounds like a win-win situation to me.Of course I very sorry to hear of those who are losing their job but on a personal note I don't want to see the job market in central Scotland flooded with chemists, I'm never going to get a new job at this rate!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2473151/Petrol-10p-litre-following-news-Grangemouth-site-shut-bitter-union-led-row-pay-conditions.htmlI hope this time they really are making up a story!Another chemical plant closed today:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24638168But ironically on the same day this article is published:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24635281 Edited by Hiya
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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Such competition will only benefit places where there is a profit to be made. In many parts of Scotland (and I dare say parts of England) there simply doesn't exist a large enough population or market for profit to be made. In addition, these profits then leave the industry, meaning that tax payers money has to be used to subsidise the non profit making sectors. If those profits then remained in the railway, they could be used to shore up the non-profit making areas instead.

     

    Private involvement in the railway (or any transport sector) is short sighted and takes absolutely no account that public transport is about providing a public service.

     

    Indeed, but then i've never been one to believe that i should subsidize the welsh valleys. On the main lines, there's plenty of profit to be made and competition to invite.

    Edited by summer blizzard
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