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Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Did I elect? Who are you to ask? For the avoidance of doubt, Royal Mail forced the share issue on its employees. When you read of potential, nay very probable, strike action coming soon all is not rosey at RM, even if the ConDem party believe otherwise..  O/T, why is Vince Cable, a man well over retirement age, still in govt and working?

    I know all the issues. I made an informed issue to purchase...and i'll probably sell v quickly to make a fast buck."A man well over retirement age"! - so Scotland is promoting an ageist agenda then!?
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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Do people still really believe in democracy in its truest form? no offence..but the reality is far away from media type reporting et al, as for counting votes hehe... is that what usually happens on the ground? really?   Business runs the country not a few suits perched in govt pretending to pull the strings. IT is the other way around.

    No...but it's a lot better than many parts of the world. Who'd want to be in many African states or a woman in an Arabic country?The UK has its faults but it's a hell of a lot better then many countries.
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    Posted
  • Location: North of Falkirk
  • Weather Preferences: North Atlantic cyclogenesis
  • Location: North of Falkirk

    so Scotland is promoting an ageist agenda then!?

    I think I get your sentiment, but when I write: "Scotland is not one man's thinking", I assume you get me?!

     

    Meanwhile, answer the question :)

    Edited by BurntFishTrousers
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    I think I get your sentiment, but when I write: "Scotland is not one man's thinking", I assume you get me?! Meanwhile, answer the question :)

    Erm....what question? (Genuine Q)
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Is that from personal experience or..from stuff which we're fed? on the news? you know propaganda..sorry i use the word so much except i can't actually help it! but it is an important word.

    "Propaganda" a word banded around too freely.Anyway... feel like 'we've' hijacked this thread in last 30 mins........so to be fair, backing out of it now. Have a great w/e.
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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Not entirely sure of the point about England getting a Labour government was.Scotland has had no influence over the Gov't of the UK in the last 50 years.That's right England has voted for the gov't it wanted and has got this every time over the last 50 years.Scotland doesn't have that ability with its population.So the point is the UK is a nation state where only one country can decide the gov't.That's not democracy or a partnership it's a democratic dictatorship.Yes we have the perceived mechanisms of democracy but a state that has no democracy for its component parts.Which leads to the only future for Scotland independence.Or continuance of middle England domination and a feeble Scottish Labour.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    "Bless..some really must believe in the system then."

     

     

    Yes, some do. They believe it can be better. Not perfect - nothing ever is - but better. Hope is what it is.

     

    It's a complex mix of nationality / identity, current and historical politics.

     

    In terms of Scotland not getting governments it voted for, that's just part of the equation.... That problem has come to a head now that Labour have lost their grip on Scotland. Right now, for the main UK parties, we have in terms of (at best) support in Scotland:

     

    Labour ~30%

    Tories ~15%

    Libs ~5%

     

    So even if Westminster had a coalition of all three, 50% of the Scottish electorate would be against it. If Labour took a majority, 70% would be against them. In 2010, Labour may have got 42% in Scotland, but 12 points of that was a desperate tactical vote aimed at stopping a Tory victory, not love for Labour, as we saw in 2011.

     

    This is why support for indy or devo max lies at ~2/3; that and because Scotland is Scotland. It's part of Britain, but it's not very British in its identity. It never has been; the British Empire was England/London's empire - Scotland just found itself tagging along. It's 83% Scottish (62% Scottish solely) with just 28% feeling a bit or wholly British. It has never really been strongly British, just Scotland, part of Britain.

     

    And it all comes back to 'What's the point of the (current) union?'. It once had a point - a huge empire as noted - it doesn't any more. If Scotland wants to be part of a big free trade block union it has the EU or EFTA/EEA.

     

    As I've said before, Scotland's slow journey towards home rule / independence began at the point the empire began to decline / the point where universal suffrage came to the UK, i.e. the 1920's. Half the electorate signed a petition calling for a Scottish parliament in 1949 and that's at the peak of 'Britishness' in Scotland, i.e. when we were seeing the development of the post-war consensus and the welfare state; something hugely popular in Scotland and something Scotland is trying to preserve. When Scotland finally forced Westminster into offering devolution (by voting SNP) it voted for it (1979), and that was 34 years ago. It then massively voted for it in 1997. 10 years later and devolution (in its current form) is already 'broken'. What's happening is not something new; it's been growing for the past 70-90 years. 

     

    When it comes down to it, we're just observing the final decline British empire. It's returning to what it was when it started; England+Wales, Scotland and Ireland. It's normal.

     

    There is attachment to Britain in Scotland in the sense of shared bonds/history/culture. However, Scotland reserves the right to be Scotland. If it isn't allowed to be the Scotland it wants to be within the Union (which is devo maxed now), it will leave, be that next year or not long after that. Dave had a chance to save the union by this means (offering Devo Max); he chose not to, instead gambling it all on a straight Y/N. Next year many Yes voters will be voting Yes because Westminster forced them to.

     

    If Britain ends, it will be the inflexibility of Westminster - it's inability to modernise and adapt to a changed, post-empirical world, accommodating the hopes/wishes of it's constituent nations - that will have caused it.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Hi SS, thought your last piece was very uplifting and evocative...this is precisely the information that needs to be spread among the Scottish electorate by the Scottish Government. The one piece of information that is undeniable true, Scotland can no longer elect a government in WM that it wishes. The unionist parties already know this but aren't telling!

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    If anyone is in any doubt about how ordinary Scots feel about independence.I urge to follow the link to the Clydebank Tuc meeting on wings over Scotland. Sarwar didn't get the easy ride he gets on the Unionist led media.He was left dumbfounded as the people of   Scotland saw through his lies and myths.They eloquently tore him to shreds .This is the sort of debate you will never see on TV.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I've noted how independence supporters are those with 'get up and go'; people with confidence, entrepreneurial spirit etc. A classic example here from a debate the other day.

     

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/yes-winning-63-to-33-after-three-post-debate-polls/

     

    Held at the Royal Society of Edinburgh and hosted by Edinburgh marketing company Nth Degree. Debate Chairman was Paul Fletcher of the University of Edinburgh Business School with the pro-union argument being put forward by Iain McGill, former Conservative candidate, businessman, charity campaigner and prominent TV and radio spokesperson for the No Campaign.  For the Yes camp, Michelle R Thomson, Director of Business for Scotland, Entrepreneur and Change Management expert.

     

    Audience full of business people of varying sorts.

     

    End of the debate vote:

     

    Yes 75%, No 25%.

     

    As the article shows, Yes wins when people sit down and listen to the debate (it details other recent debates such as the BBC one where Yes won). It also shows how those in the business world see independence as a positive thing for Scotland.

     

    Posted Image

     

    Yes have a positive message delivered by people who believe in Scotland. In contrast, No make fun of their own country, calling it useless, lacking any distinct culture etc (e.g. Lord George Robertson).

     

    The guy is young, but here's an insight into the mind of someone like Alastair Darling.

     

    http://archive.is/FKPWp

     

    Why the Saltire makes me cringe

     

    He, like the most prominent members of the No campaign represent the 5-6% 'British' Scots, i.e. the ones that are Scottish, but cringe so much about it they say they are British only. Unless of course they're trying to get you to vote No when they are suddenly at pains to tell you how proudly Scottish they are.

     

    If someone says they're 'proudly' Scottish or 'really patriotic' about being Scottish you know the opposite is the case and in fact they don't feel Scottish at all; either that or hate that they are (like Gordon Brown). I mean which normal person walks around telling people how proud they are of their nationality? Aside from a few right-wing nut jobs, nobody. It suggests you think your country is superior. Of course you might take pride in your country at times, e.g. if it passes some great piece of legislation to improve equality democracy etc, but you don't walk around espousing such pride on a daily basis like BT reps do.

     

    I'm not proudly Scottish, I'm just Scottish; that's my nationality. I'm neither proud nor not proud to be Scottish. I just am Scottish like my wife is French.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    In addition to the impact of the decline of the empire, this is the other big factor in the equation as I’ve talked about before. Given the events of the past few days (and it’s Sunday morning so I’m lazing around a bit), I thought a rehash would be worthwhile…

     

    I used to feel British when I was a young. After all, ‘British society’ was all around me. I shared things in my life with people across the UK from John O’Groats to Land’s End. I used to get on British Rail trains; now I get on Scotrail. Our telephone was from BT, not any more. Our gas came from British Gas; gone. Coal from British coal; gone…

     

    With the Royal Mail now privatised, that’s another bedrock of British society that was part of life in Scotland that is no more.

     

    Here’s a list of all the stuff that used to be part of British society but are now gone:

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_privatizations#United_Kingdom

     

    Of course not all of these existed in Scotland, but you get the picture.

     

    So what’s left of British Society in Scotland? Not a lot:

     

    BBC

    Welfare

    Taxes

    Armed forces

     

    Now the majority of the Scots electorate are unhappy with standard of service provided by the BBC, with BBC Scotland’s budget being slashed, so it’s not much of a bedrock of society.

     

    The welfare state is under the most sustained attack since its creation and the Scots electorate want this and taxes to be controlled by Holyrood. One of the last shared bonds of British society unravelling then…

     

    That would leave what? Just the army? Even then Scots don’t fight in the ‘British Army’, ‘Scottish’ regiments fight under the British Flag; well, what’s left of them anyway after their decimation by successive UK government cuts.

     

    It’s no wonder ‘Britain’ is coming to an end; there’s little left ‘British society’ for people in Scotland to feel attached too. And what is left is under sustained attack.

     

    With respect to my pervious post on national identity in Scotland, and as a reminder of something well worth watching in terms of understanding how we’ve reached the point where Britain coming to an end, I refer to STV’s recent ‘Road to Referendum’ documentary (all parts available on Youtube).

     

    Watch the footage of Scotland just after the war. The union flag is everywhere. However, it flies alongside the Saltire and the Lion Rampant. That’s because, as noted, Scotland was never ‘British’ it has always been ‘Scottish and British’ as Iain Macwhirter notes in his narration. People in Scotland were happy with their dual identity.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV_D9P8nj4I

     

     

    As I’ve described, ‘British’ has been progressively removed from Scotland by successive Westminster Governments in the form of privatisation, most notably from 1979 onwards.

     

    People talk about ‘state ownership’; that actually means ‘societal ownership’ for the state is society, or at least what binds it together. End societal control of things like essential public services and you end society; in this case, ‘British society’. Particularly pertinent is that British society was an artificial construct designed to bind four historically and culturally distinct home nation societies together as one.

     

    It’s why Scotland now looks nothing like those scenes from 1945. You can drive around for hours and you’ll see Saltires, Lion Rampants, thistles, tartan, ‘Scottish’ this and that everywhere. Symbols of Britishness are much rarer; the occasional Union Flag on a public building is just about all that’s left. Until a few days ago you could count the red post boxes as a symbol of Britishness in Scotland; not any more.

     

    With British society vanishing from Scotland, what remains is Scottish society. Is it any surprise we are where we are?

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Meanwhile, Scottish Government working with UK Foreign Office officials to prepare the ground internationally for Scottish independence.

     

    http://archive.is/vN0dy

     

    SNP's mission to woo the world

     

    ...But even ministers conducting such routine talks are taking the chance to explain next year's vote, the Sunday Herald understands.
    So much so that Foreign Office staff - previously privately criticised for taking little interest in Scottish missions overseas - routinely sit in on meetings between Holyrood ministers and foreign officials.
    UK diplomats have been dampening concerns overseas that the referendum will encourage separatist movements elsewhere...
     
    As noted in past posts; UK government is facilitating/encouraging Scottish independence.
    Not sure why the headline is 'SNP's' mission. There are 3 political parties in the Holyrood Chamber commanding a clear majority of MSPs which advocate independence. 'Scottish Government's' mission would have been correct. Typical Scottish MSM.
     
    -----
     
    EDIT. Reports on the Radio this morning that Scottish and UK Government representatives have recently been at the UN in Geneva to discuss the process of Scotland joining.
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    A lot of this is repeating what's been said in this thread (mainly by SS :lol: ) but worth a read nonetheless:

     

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-wilson-the-tories-position-in-scotland-1-3139521

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Well, i've never voted Labour but i got stuck with them for 13 years. Whilst Scotland remains part of the UK you'll just have to put up with a govt 'elected' by the whole of the UK.

    England got the government it elected during that 13 years. During the previous 18 and following 5 Scotland did not - that is the difference.
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Just in case you were thinking Labour maybe possibly, you never know, just might be moving from the right back towards something more middle ground again...

     

    Jim (I just love tanks, guns, bombs, nuclear weapons and stuff) Murphy wants to make clear they're not doing any shift to the left at all. They're Tories. Got that?

     

    http://archive.is/X1SHr

     

    Jim Murphy: Labour haven't lurched to the left under Miliband

     

    A leading shadow cabinet Blairite has denied Labour has made a "lurch to the left" under Ed Miliband.
    Jim Murphy, the East Renfrewshire MP and now shadow international development secretary, insisted the party remained "slap bang in the middle [strong right-wing neoliberal]" of British politics.
    Man he must be livid. Fired from his post as shadow defence secretary. Probably went home and smashed up all his wee painted plastic soldiers in a fit of rage.
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: North of Falkirk
  • Weather Preferences: North Atlantic cyclogenesis
  • Location: North of Falkirk

    http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/business-as-usual/

     

     

     

    Since the SNP won their majority in 2011, the official position of BBC Scotland executives has been that the referendum is just another dot on the map – a key date for sure, like the Commonwealth Games – but nothing requiring special measures. When challenged the management has repeatedly stated the same mantra: It’s business as usual.

    Take a moment and think about what that implies. This referendum is the biggest single political event in centuries. It could end the British state. It could lead Scotland to ruin or to prosperity. None of us will ever cast a more important vote for as long as we live. Beyond our shores, there is global interest.

     

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    http://www.channel4.com/news/nuclear-trident-us-bomb-cold-war-eric-schlosser

     

    Nuclear near misses and Trident's 'safety issues'

     

    We know about risks posed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. But new information reveals the US dropped bombs on its own soil. And author Eric Schlosser says Trident also has "safety issues"...

     

     

    ..."Trident... has some safety issues," he told Channel 4 News, adding: "I hope in Scotland that they're very careful when they're loading and unloading the missiles."

     

     

    Just up the road from Glasgow of course. Let's hope Labour's Jim Murphy isn't helping with loading.

     

    Plymouth is too 'densely populated an area' to host Trident of course.

     

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/04/mod-nuclear-submarines-scotland-plymouth

     

    The largest urban conurbation in Scotland is fine though.

     

    Posted Image

     

    Note the installations have been 'privatised' too. In case that had passed anyone by.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19022025

     

    Clyde nuclear contract awarded

     

    The consortium, known as ABL Alliance, is made up of companies that already work on defence contracts, led by AWE, along with Babcock and Lockheed Martin.

    The decision to privatise the work was reached in May last year, when the MoD "decided the most effective way to sustain the workforce in the future was to use an experienced supplier within the private sector".

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Unemployment down, employment up.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24547527

     

    Scots employment at five-year high

     

    Employment in Scotland has reached its highest level for five years, according to the latest official figures.

     
    Employment rose by 37,000 over the three months to August, and now stands at 2,548,000.
     
    The number of unemployed Scots fell by 3,000 to 201,000 over the summer period.
     
    Office for National Statistics (ONS) data showed the Scottish jobless rate at 7.3%, which is below the average of 7.7% for the whole of the UK.
     
    ----
     
    Q2 GDP growth 0.6%.
     
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24547519

     

    Scottish economy grows by 0.6%

     

    The Scottish economy grew by 0.6% between April and June this year, in line with the figure for the UK as a whole.

     
    It was the fourth consecutive quarter to show growth north of the border.
     
    On an annual basis, comparing the latest quarter to the same period last year, Scottish GDP grew by 1.8%.
     
     
    Reasonably positive. What I can't see is the supposed negative 'uncertainty' effect on the Scottish economy associated with the referendum the pro-union campaign have been on about. If we take employment figures alone, then maybe the rUK should set some sort of independence referendum date to boost jobs?

     

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

     

    Reasonably positive. What I can't see is the supposed negative 'uncertainty' effect on the Scottish economy associated with the referendum the pro-union campaign have been on about. If we take employment figures alone, then maybe the rUK should set some sort of independence referendum date to boost jobs?

     

     

    The pro-union camp don't have any economic credibility left after the Royal Mail sell off. Fair enough if they had got the share price 10% or even 20% wrong, but 50%?! This from some of the same people who claim that Scotland could never go it alone Posted Image

     

    Edit: Obviously it's the ConDem parts of the No campaign who are the ones I am getting at, Labour are spot on with everything they do Posted Image

    Edited by CatchMyDrift
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24553894
     
    Labour ‘could cut £5bn’ from welfare budgets after 2016
     
    Labour has said it will stick to the [Tory-led] coalition’s spending plans in 2015-16.
     
    Shadow chancellor Ed Balls has said that, if the party forms the next government, there will have to be an “iron discipline†on spending and further cuts will have to be made.

     

    So the options are Tory or Tory? Hmmm.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24553894

     

    Labour ‘could cut £5bn’ from welfare budgets after 2016

     

    Labour has said it will stick to the [Tory-led] coalition’s spending plans in 2015-16.

     

    Shadow chancellor Ed Balls has said that, if the party forms the next government, there will have to be an “iron discipline†on spending and further cuts will have to be made.

     

    So the options are Tory or Tory? Hmmm.

     

    Being fair social attitude surveys suggest that welfare cuts are popular and that the electorate wants a more fiscally conservative government.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Being fair social attitude surveys suggest that welfare cuts are popular and that the electorate wants a more fiscally conservative government.

     

    I'm not sure how that in any way alters my point which was a future Labour government at Westminster (if Scotland remains in the UK) will be offering exactly the same as a Tory one.

     

    Scotland has a fiscally conservative government (I'm continually impressed by how they squeeze so much out of their pocket money to fund the best public services they can). It's just they a moderate / (real) slightly left of centre and quite liberal one.

     

    Scotland is by nature quite fiscally conservative. It's why the right don't do well here. Thatcher's horrifically poor record on fiscal discipline was part of the demise of the Tories; who would vote for a party that used a massive bonus surplus to fund a huge rise in unemployment?

     

    Fiscal discipline certainly isn't a trait of the right and nor does it require a very limited welfare state. You are quite aware of this, praising e.g. Nordic countries for their fiscal discipline.

     

    As far as I can see, it is countries which have had strongly right wing governments for the past few decades like the UK and the USA are up to their eyeballs in debt. The more moderate centrist ones have faired much better.

     

    Anyway, Labour vote in Scotland on 30% at best and Tories on 15%. Even the Lib vote would struggle to get it above 50% combined for all three. Part of the reason for this is their lack of fiscal discipline.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion

    http://www.channel4.com/news/nuclear-trident-us-bomb-cold-war-eric-schlosser

     

    Nuclear near misses and Trident's 'safety issues'

     

    We know about risks posed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. But new information reveals the US dropped bombs on its own soil. And author Eric Schlosser says Trident also has "safety issues"...

     

     

    ..."Trident... has some safety issues," he told Channel 4 News, adding: "I hope in Scotland that they're very careful when they're loading and unloading the missiles."

     

     

    Just up the road from Glasgow of course. Let's hope Labour's Jim Murphy isn't helping with loading.

     

    Plymouth is too 'densely populated an area' to host Trident of course.

     

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/04/mod-nuclear-submarines-scotland-plymouth

     

    The largest urban conurbation in Scotland is fine though.

     

    Posted Image

     

    Note the installations have been 'privatised' too. In case that had passed anyone by.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19022025

     

    Clyde nuclear contract awarded

     

    The consortium, known as ABL Alliance, is made up of companies that already work on defence contracts, led by AWE, along with Babcock and Lockheed Martin.

    The decision to privatise the work was reached in May last year, when the MoD "decided the most effective way to sustain the workforce in the future was to use an experienced supplier within the private sector".

    Aye, better to have nuclear missiles in the middle of a major city (Plymouth) than 30 miles away (Glasgow) ......  Posted Image

    Seriously, is Coulport really the largest connurbation in Scotland?

    The point is, Coulport is more remote and with an much, much, smaller local population than Devonport.

    Sometimes, it's not all about Scotland Posted Image Although I appreciate some people disagree ....

    Edited by Essan
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

     

     

    Aye, better to have nuclear missiles in the middle of a major city (Plymouth) than 30 miles away (Glasgow) ......  Posted Image

    Seriously, is Coulport really the largest connurbation in Scotland?

    The point is, Coulport is more remote and with an much, much, smaller local population than Devonport.

    Sometimes, it's not all about Scotland Posted Image Although I appreciate some people disagree ....

     

     

    Sorry, but I fail utterly to see your point.

     

    Note also this thread is entirely about Scotland. Hence the title and why my posts such as the one you quote is not in the UK politics thread where it would be out of place for the reasons you specify.

     

    I wasn't in any way suggesting Scotland forces plymouth to host trident. Scotland doesn't want WMD's on it's territory with it's MPs and MSPs consistently voting against it backed up by a strong rejection of it in polls. If Westminster wants WMDs to willy wave on the international stage and considers Scotland a valued nation within the union, it would move them to somewhere in the UK they'd be welcomed. If they are safe, what's the problem? Why not somewhere in London - old port facilities or something?

     

    Are you saying the locals of coulport are expendable? That trident does present a huge risk to those living near it?

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion

    I fail utterly to see your point.

     

    The point is that there is a reason why Devonport is less appropriate as a nuclear submarine base, as opposed to Coulport.And it has as much to do with Coulport being in Scotland as the size of the Sun has to do with the number of marbles in a jar. So the question is: why bring it up at all?

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