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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    I'm stunned at this, although he's been coming round to this point of view for a few columns now:

     

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/20/scottish-independence-becoming-only-option

     

    He's someone I used to read through gritted teeth. I wonder how many other people are going to come round to this way of thinking, or is he a one off?

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    This is another Union Dividend I suppose...

    Posted Image

    I'm not sure which is more ignorant, the Southern dwelling ebayers who check the box for this discrimination or the tools who set this up on e-bay as basically a default, does E-bay understand the Royal Mail's UNIVERSAL SERVICE OBLIGATION?

    E-bay no longer responds to complaints / enquiries about this.

    Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I'm stunned at this, although he's been coming round to this point of view for a few columns now:

     

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/20/scottish-independence-becoming-only-option

     

    He's someone I used to read through gritted teeth. I wonder how many other people are going to come round to this way of thinking, or is he a one off?

     

    Kevin McKenna, as he states, is/was previously a Labour unionist.

     

    He's been turning to indy over the past year or so. Much like former Labour FM Henry Mcleish. There are quite a number of Labour MSPs planning to vote Yes (Malcolm Chisholm is probably a Yes), but they're not speaking out right now for fear of losing their positions (list MSPs could for example be ejected from their seats and most of Labour's MSPs are list).

     

    The cracks are opening. The STUC is refusing to back the union and a number of unions/branches have backed yes. Senior Labour figures are shifting to Yes. We now have 'Labour for Independence' growing quickly. If Scottish Labour breaks with a side opting for Yes, it's all over for the union.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I've banged on about the London issue for years. Why does the RuK continue to support its greed and bloated investment.

     

    Even HS2 which is apparently supposed to move investment away from London, will actually do the opposite as big business will expect workers to commute from further away.

     

    A good article.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    If Scottish Labour breaks with a side opting for Yes, it's all over for the union.

     

    Big "If", but if that happens then it is curtains for the union. There must be one or two closed door conversations going on amongst senior Scottish Labour figures, people higher up in the party but on the fringes of power would could risk jumping ship to the Yes camp and therefore reap the rewards post-possible-independence. If politicians really are power hungry self-interested people then why not? If I was high up in the Labour Party, with good backing from the grass roots, but little or no chance of proper power in the current set-up then why wouldn't I risk it? Even more so if I actually believed in independence. Interesting times ahead, I think if it does happen it will go with a bang rather than a whimper.

    I've banged on about the London issue for years. Why does the RuK continue to support its greed and bloated investment.

     

    Even HS2 which is apparently supposed to move investment away from London, will actually do the opposite as big business will expect workers to commute from further away.

     

    A good article.

     

    If they were serious about HS being about all of the UK they'd have started with a Scotland to Manchester line first, and then done the rest...

     

    Edit: If I remember correctly from uni, public spending per head of population is broadly similar in London & the South East as it is in Scotland, but the spending on capital projects (e.g. infrastructure) is roughly twice as much in London as it is in Scotland.

    Edited by CatchMyDrift
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    If they were serious about HS being about all of the UK they'd have started with a Scotland to Manchester line first, and then done the rest...

    The problem with that is that South of Manchester there simply isn't the paths on the WCML for the new HS trains from the North and the WCML services, yet it is Glasgow/Edinburgh to Manchester that would serve up the big time savings much more easily that could replace domestic air travel. HS2 is as much about capacity as speed, which is why they should significantly reduce the proposed running speed south of Manchester, which would reduce costs and give greater flexibility in routing.The cost saving could then allow for a start at both ends, but the whole situation is a horrific mess bought by decades of under and wrong investment. Perhaps we need to start focusing on improving access to and direct services from our airports and ports, much that I love the idea of getting on a High Speed train in Northern Scotland and stepping off it somewhere else in Europe. Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I'm going to flag this up again as it's getting increasingly worrying; i.e. the growing British nationalist xenophobia, mainly from Labour.

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/quoted-for-irony/

     

    Scottish Labour leader says nationalism is a virus
     
     
    So if you support your country being a normal, independent nation state then you are a virus, destroying society? Something dangerous that needs curing? Hmm, I wonder where that concept came from. Maybe here?
     
    “The discovery of the Jewish virus is one of the greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world. The battle in which we are engaged today is of the same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch. How many diseases have their origin in the Jewish virus! We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew.â€
    (Adolf Hitler, February 1942)
     
     
    Given that ICM had 47 Y / 37 N in one of the most recent polls (if 15% voters could be assured they'd be better off under indy), then Labour consider up to half the Scottish electorate a 'virus'.
     
    And really, Ed, what is wrong with foreigners?
     
    Miliband will say about delegate’s treatment at the Liverpool’s Broadgreen Hospital, “The doctors and nurses don’t ask whether she lives in England or Scotland. No. They know she is Scottish, and British. I don’t want Cathy to become a foreigner.â€
     
     
    What do you not like about them?
     
    A reminder about the dislike of foreigners by prominent unionists:
     
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/foreigner-watch/

     

    Quite contrasts my day marching in Edinburgh where all 'creeds and colours' turned up. I must have heard at least twelve different languages in 1 hour on the hill and saw many other national flags flapping happily in amongst the saltires. Nobody was 'foreign'.

     

    Anyway, based on Mags Curran's comments at the Labour conference, you can see what Labour are aiming for if there's a no vote; to role back devolution. They regret it now.

     

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/throwing-mud-in-glass-houses/

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Glasgow Southside 30m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Summer: Warm/Dry enough for a t-shirt. Winter: Cold enough for a scarf.
  • Location: Glasgow Southside 30m ASL.

    Going by their reasoning, those who campaigned for devolution and for further strengthening the powers of the Scottish Parliament also suffer from this 'virus'.

     

    As the last article correctly points out, health and education have always been independent in Scotland. Our elected representatives went to Westminster, but became Scottish Health Minister, Scottish Education Minister etc, under the auspices of the old Scottish Office. Even in the case of the Lockerbie bomber Al-Megrahi, had the application for release on health grounds happened before devolution, the decision in theory and legally at least, would have been taken by the Scottish Secretary.

     

    So if they seriously are trying to suggest rolling back devolution, then they are being completely anti-democratic. They are suggesting we lose the level of accountability and democratic scrutiny that the Scottish Parliament brought, as well as a return to the democratic deficit of the pre-1999 days.

     

    I find it hard to believe that they would dare do such a thing however. I suspect she is placating some of the Labour MPs who represent Scotland, who themselves have had their wings clipped by devolution, To take powers back would be a monumental error on their part, and would only serve to keep the independence issue on the table in the future. If we vote no in 2014, and then this happened, they'll create a storm for themselves.

     

    I would also add, that Margaret Curran was a minister in the Scottish Parliament for a considerable time she was in there. Maybe she should ask herself why health in Easterhouse didn't get any better after devolution.

    Edited by Glaswegianblizzard
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Both Lamont and Darling were against devolution; something people should remember given one is the 'leader' (ahem) of Labour in Scotland and the other is leading the No campaign.

     

    There are few proponents of it in the higher labour hierarchy now; not serious ones anyway after the Scots electorate ousted them at Holyrood level. The talk of income tax devolution was shot down in flames by Labour UK without any real consideration.

     

    Vote no get nothing is the order of the day. Quite likely even attempts to reduce powers.

     

    I agree though that this would cause a crapstorm and a likely push for independence again very quickly.

     

    ---

     

    EDIT. I was just thinking Lamont could have equated support for independence to a 'cancer'. But then Ed was using a cancer patient as a political tool in his pro-UK speech and so that might have been tasteless.

     

    ---

     

    EDIT two. Jeez, have people seen the conference? Tory blue with a union flag. You could imagine Dave and George waltzing in.

     

    Gone is the red  / rose of socialism.

     

    Posted Image

     

    But it's not even a union flag. The cross of St. Patrick is gone with the saltire fading to white...

     

    Posted Image

     

    St. Georges Cross resplendent...

     

    I guess the One Nation thing is maybe not aimed at Scotland.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    Just watched Newsnight Scotland on Iplayer, about the most coherent Michael Kelly's ever been and he fairly put the boot into Johan Lamont and admitted that while it was bad for Labour PR for the Scottish Parliament and STV for local government was good for Scotland. I think I need to sit down….

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The Michael Kelly? That must have been something.

     

    Anyway, saw this posted elsewhere in reference to Labour's Lamont calling Scots who are interested in indy - and presumably indy lite / devo max - a 'virus'.

     

    From 1989.

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/27/world/moscow-condemns-nationalist-virus-in-3-baltic-lands.html

     

    MOSCOW CONDEMNS NATIONALIST 'VIRUS' IN 3 BALTIC LANDS

     

    In its strongest response yet to the growing calls for independence in the Baltic republics, the Communist Party today condemned nationalist movements in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and declared that the agitation had caused alarm and hysteria and raised the prospect of ''civil conflict.''

     

    Sounds eerily familiar huh. Posted Image

     

    ---------------

     

    Also, BBC have worded this carefully, but...

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24223948

     

    The Electoral Commission says preparations for the Scottish independence referendum are going well but it raised some concerns.

     
    John McCormick, electoral commissioner for Scotland, said he was "encouraged" by the progress so far.
     
    But he called for "clarity" about how the terms of independence would be decided in order to help voters.
     
     
    But then the negotiations are on-going and we should find out all the basics on EU, NATO, currency soon enough.
     
    Interestingly, I asked some EU clients (European oil major with 10's of 1000's of staff and billions of assets in the Scottish sector) about the post indy EU + currency situation and their management are telling them 'nothing to worry about' but that's all they are saying. Obviously those at the top in such companies have access to info we don't, for now at least.
    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I am fuming about what I've just found out between the disaprity between what the BBC spend on Football coverage in England compare to Scotland.

     

    The English Leagues get £186 million a year, the Scottish Leagues £500k, yes, despite having 10% of the population, Scotland only gets 0.2% of the amount English football, do Scottish voters 0.2% of the licence fee that England pays?

     

    If Unionists really want to get serious about saving the Union, it is perhaps well overdue as to how they address these types of things.

     

    ps. Well done to the mighty Greenock Morton.

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    Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

    That explains why almost all the live radio football coverage got canned, from every SPL match to 1 or 2 a weekend!

    Edited by skifreak
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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Also why did Radio Scotland ditch the nightly politics Scotland programme. This used to be the highlight of my night at 10pm when making my pieces for work. the dumbing down of Radio Scotland.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    I am fuming about what I've just found out between the disaprity between what the BBC spend on Football coverage in England compare to Scotland.

     

    The English Leagues get £186 million a year, the Scottish Leagues £500k, yes, despite having 10% of the population, Scotland only gets 0.2% of the amount English football, do Scottish voters 0.2% of the licence fee that England pays?

     

    If Unionists really want to get serious about saving the Union, it is perhaps well overdue as to how they address these types of things.

     

    ps. Well done to the mighty Greenock Morton.

     

    You probably get a lot more Scottish football per £ than English football though, but I can see the point being made. At least if we were independent we could have greater control over these things. There's no reason why a Scottish national broadcaster couldn't make some sort of investment deal with Scottish football; sport in this country should be a priority for investment given all the indirect benefits.

     

    It was good to see the once mighty Morton turning Celtic over last night, I had a few Facebook friends with happy smiles last night :lol:

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Speeches from Calton hill. Not in any order.

     

    Alan Grogan, Labour for Independence.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BprUBKW68w

     

    Patrick Harvie, Greens

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv-dUsrs9-0

     

    Margo (independent)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWV0yTUxVQk

     

     

    Dennis Canavan (Labour, then independent)

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf4z_8Aoe2k

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    Fascinating nugget from the census results today from James Cook:

    ''In 2011, 62% of population felt Scottish only, 18% felt Scottish and British, 8% British only, 2% English only"

    https://twitter.com/bbcjamescook/status/383150068507086848

    Yet another indication that the core no vote is somewhere around 20-25% and massive that so few feel British.

    That 62% really shouldn't be that difficult to convince - why would they want to be run by a country they don't even regard themselves as part of?

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    Posted
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level
  • Location: Maddiston , Falkirk, Scotland 390ft above sea level

    Fascinating nugget from the census results today from James Cook:''In 2011, 62% of population felt Scottish only, 18% felt Scottish and British, 8% British only, 2% English only"https://twitter.com/bbcjamescook/status/383150068507086848Yet another indication that the core no vote is somewhere around 20-25% and massive that so few feel British.That 62% really shouldn't be that difficult to convince - why would they want to be run by a country they don't even regard themselves as part of?

    Couldn't agree more!
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Fascinating nugget from the census results today from James Cook:''In 2011, 62% of population felt Scottish only, 18% felt Scottish and British, 8% British only, 2% English only"https://twitter.com/bbcjamescook/status/383150068507086848Yet another indication that the core no vote is somewhere around 20-25% and massive that so few feel British.That 62% really shouldn't be that difficult to convince - why would they want to be run by a country they don't even regard themselves as part of?

     

    It's interesting that only 2% see themselves as English only, given that 9% of the population were born in England.

     

    I'm starting to see signs of people talking about the referendum at work, it was never mentioned by anyone until a month or two ago, but there's more and more chat about it. Some of the English born people I work with even thought they wouldn't get a vote, that it was some kind of bloodline Scots only referendum. I've even heard English born people saying things like "they'll send us all home" if there's a Yes vote. I'm glad there's still a year to set people straight on what it's all about.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    why would they want to be run by a country they don't even regard themselves as part of?

     

    Because they fear the unknown.

     

    I have asolutely no doubt that in the run up to the vote, that the Better Together campaign becomes increasingly negative and driven by fear that Scotland cannot survive alone. It's the only way they can win.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    It's interesting that only 2% see themselves as English only, given that 9% of the population were born in England.

     

    I'm starting to see signs of people talking about the referendum at work, it was never mentioned by anyone until a month or two ago, but there's more and more chat about it. Some of the English born people I work with even thought they wouldn't get a vote, that it was some kind of bloodline Scots only referendum. I've even heard English born people saying things like "they'll send us all home" if there's a Yes vote. I'm glad there's still a year to set people straight on what it's all about.

    Interestingly though there are a decent number of English-born and even self-identified English people living in Scotland who are voting yes. I know a guy back in Northeast Fife for example who actually moved his whole family up here two years ago from Surrey because he liked the idea of an independent Scotland so much. I guess the main point about identity is that the no campaign are the main proponents of the idea of identity, constantly harking on about 'proudly British and Scottish' and using words like 'patriotic' while the Yes campaign is far broader than just 'I feel Scottish' etc. Other than hoping people feel British enough, all they can do as MS rightly said is to try and scare people and those fears tend to vanish when people actually engage with the arguments.

    The other point is one about the accuracy of the polls which use the identity questions as a weighting - MORI looks even less representative of the Scottish electorate than it did when SS last demolished them for example.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I guess in essence, if you asked most of the don't knows at the moment, they would say the pound in there pocket is more important than whether they are called Scottish or British although they would prefer to be called Scottish.

     

    The Yes campaign ultimately need to prove the economic advantages of being an Independent nation. The No campaign will jump on any unfinanced policy announcements such as keeping a state owned Royal Mail in Scotland.

     

    The Yes campaign have to be sure they get there figures right in the White Paper.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Fascinating nugget from the census results today from James Cook:''In 2011, 62% of population felt Scottish only, 18% felt Scottish and British, 8% British only, 2% English only"https://twitter.com/bbcjamescook/status/383150068507086848Yet another indication that the core no vote is somewhere around 20-25% and massive that so few feel British.That 62% really shouldn't be that difficult to convince - why would they want to be run by a country they don't even regard themselves as part of?

     

    I've been eagerly awaiting this bit of the census data.

     

    Now if I was a pollster, I would ask this question and weight to it.

     

    It is well established that there is a strong correlation between support for indy and identifying more with Scotland than Britain in terms of primary national identity. But then that's hardly a surprise now is it!

     

    As this is census data, it is perfect for weighting as it's not a small snapshot. It is also unlikely to be influenced by any political considerations as it was asked not as a part of a poll on a political issue, just as general information.

     

    The pollsters get their age, sex data etc from the census, the one that uses this to weight will get the most accurate results.

     

    It also does, as you note, call into question MORI who are increasingly an outlier; they are hitting way too many 'British'. I wondered if there was a big shy factor, yet TNS are face to face but much more in line with Panelbase, ICM, Angus reid etc so while there is a bit of that, it does not explain why MORI are off on one.

     

    It must come back to the outdated telephone method. TNS knock doors in appropriate areas so there is no clear barrier to them catching the 'landline-free' demographic which is 20-30% of the electorate and whom are from groups most likely to back indy.

     

    Yougov have made a correction which puts them much more into line with all the others (closed the gap by 11% just like that). I'm going to watch what happens with them. MORI are now all alone. STV might want to consider whether they are wasting a lot of money on them.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Paris suburbs
  • Location: Paris suburbs

    There's a strong correlation between supporting independence and identifying as Scottish rather than British, but that doesn't mean that all or even a majority of them would vote for independence if there wasn't a strong case for it (there is). Likewise, you can't exclude those that feel British from voting Yes.

    I think turning independence vs. unionism into a question of national identity is needlessly divisive. I see it as a desire to 'do things differently' and that independence would help this be achieved.

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