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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
    3 hours ago, CatchMyDrift said:

    I agree with quite a lot of the above, but I think we've mentioned this before, that our politics aren't a million miles away at times. I have regular chats with people of many different political persuasions, unfortunately most Tories don't do debate beyond their hatred of NS, the SNP and NoReferendum. As I said to a Tory friend on Facebook last night, some of us would be persuaded to going back to being unionists if there was something worth going back for. There isn't, so we don't. 

    You're like me about universal benefits, although that's perhaps solely in reference to things like child benefit rather than any desire to abolish free education or the NHS? One thing no one talks about regularly is corporate welfare, that runs to the tune of £100bn a year but we don't debate it much. Are we for this or against it? Surely propping up private enterprise with government money is a very left wing thing to do? Nothing's clear cut, although it simplifies the arguments of we pretend it is, I'm sure I'm guilty of this at times.

    yeah, you'd quite possibly be someone who'd vote for a centre, centre-right party (business for Scotland type) in an Independent Scotland.

    I get that. I do feel the burden of proof is on the SNP (and others) for their 'vision' of an Independent Scotland.

    I had lunch with my friend today (Tory, voted NO last time) and he is open to Independence. He wants to see more on how they'd do it but 'probably would vote yes'.

    So people like him need kept on side. The Independence MOVEMENT needs to stay that. He'll vote Tory in the GE due to economic reasons (quite possibly like myself).

    What I mean by that is putting hashtags (which I see on my fb from Green supporting, pro-Indy types) like #lynchalltories    is detrimental to the cause. We both agreed that just makes you less likely to support Independence because people within that movement hate you. It creates a 'them and us' situation.

    2 hours ago, ciel said:

    For the avoidance of doubt, I think that reasonable opposition is healthy for democracy and holding Government, including the SNP, to account for their policies.  What I object to are misinformed or patronising comments which bear no, or only an imaginative, connection to the facts of a given situation.

    I get that, I wasn't taking aim at you. I just chose to respond to your post as it implied nobody on here supports any party bar SNP or Green which isn't the case and that nobody in real life does that isn't 95 and English

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    And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

    Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

    I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
    16 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

    Thanks SWS.   Thought I was missing something.

    Not saying it is fact though.... but he looks v safe imo.

    That is on a Con 30.5% and SNP 43.5% Prediction (which is too low for SNP imo).

    @NorthernRab  Stirling does go Blue on that prediction http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/region01.html

    I obviously think that is unlikely but just shows that you need to get your vote out

    Edited by SW Saltire
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
    2 minutes ago, SW Saltire said:

    Not saying it is fact though.... but he looks v safe imo.

    That is on a Con 30.5% and SNP 43.5% Prediction (which is too low for SNP imo).

     Must say I don't share your confidence.   It was still a narrowly remain area, and a lot of opinions may have changed since possible Brexit consequences became clearer which wouldn't enhance his paper thin majority.   He's as slippery as an eel that one  but I will concede that it will take a good one to beat him. All things have to be considered though *cough*

     

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
    18 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

     

    Fair enough. I went to school in the constituency, I live 5 miles away from it (and live in the same type of area). It's a largely Tory area with farming everywhere. Demographic atm is not way older than the average of 48 (52) but the forecast for the region is for it to rise. Has a higher than average % of English born people.

    Alex Fergusson was a great guy and this cemented the Tory vote for the constituency. Mundell is far inferior to him.

    There is no Labour vote really (under 10%) and lib dems are nowhere so can't see the NO being divided like it was last time.

    My seat (neighbouring) is far less certain. I'd still say Tory win but has always been a labour seat (and now SNP) due to the Town voting very differently to all the rural land.

    Richard Arkless is just a new guy. Stand Lesley Riddoch in that seat and you may have a chance of holding it but as things stand > 10% gap

    Edited by SW Saltire
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Not sure if Lesley Riddoch has climbed down from the fence yet, but it would be great if she did and opted to stand.

    Mundell of course could be facing x2 charges of electoral fraud.   If elected then charged and found guilty,  that then forces a by election which, I suppose, may be in voters' thoughts also.   Would certainly be in mine if I had to consider voting for him.

    I'm biased of course, but he does appear to need a revolving door fitted at his local police station!:D

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
    7 minutes ago, Mark wheeler said:

    Very unsettling.

    Means every MSP will be put on alert now I suppose.

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland
    7 hours ago, ciel said:

     

    I note on this thread, that the all vitriol against NS is spouted by those from the outside looking in at Scotland and whose pearls of wisdom concerning the Scottish issues is sourced from biased news agencies.   I would welcome views on this forum from a  Scottish Tory/ unionist who has experience of living and working here, but the only one, who apparently did, and whom I can remember recently, was clearly a “plant”/ troll.

    Someone wrote recently on here in connection with a separate topic, that “England might lose Scotland”. This idea was not expressed as “the UK might lose Scotland” or “Scotland might gain independence” and for me epitomises the misinformed, patronising and arrogant attitude of many English posters who choose to come onto the Scottish thread simply to advise Scots of their poor leadership or supposed folly.

     

    over the years there have been some who have posted, but frankly they were shouted down, patronized and bullied off the thread by a few of the usual suspects that is a plain fact....if you doubt my words, I can assure you that during nearly 9 years on the site-team, it was brought up time and time again by some....A pattern quickly emerged when this thread was created, some nationalists posting anything they pleased, and when anyone else voiced an opinion, especially a non-nationalistic opinion, they were jumped on....hence the regular requests from team members (including myself) to tone it down, but it always fell on deaf eyes....It's one of the main reasons I left the team actually, because I was sick and tired of the biased nature of the thread and the personal abuse I received on a regular basis, and I was a damned neutral!.....I really hope this post is not binned by the current mods as it really needs to be said.

    Edited by ajpoolshark
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    Posted
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold in winter and dry and very warm in summer
  • Location: Dumfries, South West Scotland.
    7 minutes ago, ajpoolshark said:

    over the years there have been some who have posted, but frankly they were shouted down, patronized and bullied off the thread by a few of the usual suspects that is a plain fact....if you doubt my words, I can assure you that during nearly 9 years on the site-team, it was brought up time and time again by some....A pattern quickly emerged when this thread was created, some nationalists posting anything they pleased, and when anyone else voiced an opinion, especially a non-nationalistic opinion, they were jumped on....hence the regular requests from team members (including myself) to tone it down, but it always fell on deaf eyes....It's one of the main reasons I left the team actually, because I was sick and tired of the biased nature of the thread and the personal abuse I received on a regular basis, and I was a damned neutral!.....I really hope this post is not binned by the current mods as it really needs to be said.

    I agree to an extent with this but tbf a few of the harshest critics did PM and apologise around the time of the referendum. There has been unionist trolls on here and they assumed I was bigoted also.

    In the main, the thread contains some good debate in the evenings. If people don't want to read the pro-independence spin put on articles in here then they could always just read a newspaper and somewhere in between the two positions will be the truth. I've taken away a lot from some of the sources posted in here and at the end of the day we are a drop on the ocean on this forum. We simply commentate on wider events

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
    52 minutes ago, ajpoolshark said:

    over the years there have been some who have posted, but frankly they were shouted down, patronized and bullied off the thread by a few of the usual suspects that is a plain fact....if you doubt my words, I can assure you that during nearly 9 years on the site-team, it was brought up time and time again by some....A pattern quickly emerged when this thread was created, some nationalists posting anything they pleased, and when anyone else voiced an opinion, especially a non-nationalistic opinion, they were jumped on....hence the regular requests from team members (including myself) to tone it down, but it always fell on deaf eyes....It's one of the main reasons I left the team actually, because I was sick and tired of the biased nature of the thread and the personal abuse I received on a regular basis, and I was a damned neutral!.....I really hope this post is not binned by the current mods as it really needs to be said.

    Works two ways AJ.   There are certain posters who occasionally visit this thread with the soul intention of stirring things up.  Sometimes it gets heated and at times nasty yes but I cannot say any of the regular posters on here are the pistols at dawn type.  By the same token however, they will respond if they feel they are being either humiliated or insulted and at times both.

    Tensions are indeed running high at the moment and will continue to do so until we reach conclusion.  

    Observation of a simple code of conduct by all concerned would be an overall advantage though.:)

     

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    agree with you both...there have been some absolute muppets posting troll-like garbage under the pretense of the unionist banner it has to be said...it's just a shame that pseudo-extremist (and I use that term advisedly) posts from both sides of the Scottish debate have dragged this thread down,,,,Mind you, remember the run up to the 2014 indyref in the previous Scottish political thread.....jeez, it was a car crash in there

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Remember it well!   (So will Knocker)   Thankfully, one of the worst culprits is no  longer on Netweather.:)

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland

    mind you (getting back to the actual political side of things).....I was suspicious of NS calling for a 2nd indyref last month, it reeked (at the time) of opportunism, but let's face it, it's a bit rich of TM calling a GE whilst at the time rubbishing the SNP's calls for indyref2 under the guise of "we need stability in the run up to brexit"........really? :rolleyes:

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    16 minutes ago, ajpoolshark said:

    mind you (getting back to the actual political side of things).....I was suspicious of NS calling for a 2nd indyref last month, it reeked (at the time) of opportunism, but let's face it, it's a bit rich of TM calling a GE whilst at the time rubbishing the SNP's calls for indyref2 under the guise of "we need stability in the run up to brexit"........really? :rolleyes:

    It was nothing new from NS, it was hardly a surprise she was going to call it. You can't really argue that something is going to cause instability when it's expected to happen. NS couldn't have been clearer. This popped up on my Facebook yesterday it's from last year. The original screenshot was done for a laugh as my phone went wonky on the weather forecast:

    IMG_2123.thumb.PNG.35ba768dde3bfa6d4b3d842f185cf7a8.PNG

     

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    Posted
  • Location: The Garden of England
  • Weather Preferences: A large kack of heavy cloud
  • Location: The Garden of England
    2 hours ago, SW Saltire said:

    If people don't want to read the pro-independence spin put on articles in here then they could always just read a newspaper and somewhere in between the two positions will be the truth. I've taken away a lot from some of the sources posted in here......

    That's a particularly sensible approach and I try to do the same. A lot of the pro indy opinions on here are based on solid facts which are worth absorbing once you've filtered out the often obnoxious and highly partisan rhetoric.

    It's a truth that many of the staunchest nationalists don't seem to grasp that their message and the way they convey it are separate, persuasive arguments for and against their cause.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    BBC Radio Shortbread gave heavy coverage to the slaughtering the Tories took over the rape clause today from all parties.

    Quote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39694370

    MSPs condemn child tax credit reform 'rape clause'

    MSPs have condemned changes to child tax credits and a controversial provision known as the "rape clause".

    UK government welfare reforms cut child tax credit and Universal Credit for third or subsequent children.

    First Minister Nicola Sturgeon led a Holyrood debate saying parliament should be "fundamentally opposed" to the two-child policy.

    However, Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson defended the plans on grounds of financial responsibility...

    ...Ms Sturgeon's motion for the debate read that parliament should be "fundamentally opposed to the UK government's imposition of the two-child limit", as it "will push families into poverty".

    It also "utterly condemns the disgraceful and repugnant 'rape clause'", saying the policy is "unfair, unequal, morally unacceptable and deeply harmful to women and their children and a fundamental violation of women's human rights"...

    Credit to Dugdale for a decent speech on this. You can see the effect on the Tory benches.

    shame.jpg

    Good to see the parliament so united on this matter. If only Ruth had the guts to take a different stand from her London colleagues. Or maybe she does think it a great policy? Who knows.

    EDIT

    Quote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39692280

    The government motion on child tax credit cuts and the 'rape clause', as amended, is agreed to

    Posted at1 8:25

    The government motion on child tax credit cuts and the 'rape clause', as amended, is agreed to with 91 MSPs backing it and 31 against.

    That's quite a defeat for the Tories on the rape clause.

    Chamber uniting against them. 

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing fog, frost, snow, sunshine.
  • Location: Inbhir Nis / Inverness - 636 ft asl
    3 hours ago, ajpoolshark said:

    agree with you both...there have been some absolute muppets posting troll-like garbage under the pretense of the unionist banner it has to be said...it's just a shame that pseudo-extremist (and I use that term advisedly) posts from both sides of the Scottish debate have dragged this thread down,,,,Mind you, remember the run up to the 2014 indyref in the previous Scottish political thread.....jeez, it was a car crash in there

    Still the same thread! All there archived in previous pages for your viewing...er, pleasure.

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    John Lamont has resigned from his MSP job to stand for election as an MP. Not sure what the exact seats are but it's Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Ettrick or something along those lines. Tsk tsk I should know since I live here. Another election for me then? How will I cope? 

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: Hot Summer, Snowy winter and thunderstorms all year round!
  • Location: Sunderland
    5 minutes ago, NorthernRab said:

    Still the same thread! All there archived in previous pages for your viewing...er, pleasure.

    Now that's some serious bedtime reading!....all 1109 pages!....a shame all the removed posts are missing (they were the 'juicy' ones...lol......apart from the occasionally nasty comment thrown my way :whistling: )

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    Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Inverurie
    43 minutes ago, CatchMyDrift said:

    John Lamont has resigned from his MSP job to stand for election as an MP. Not sure what the exact seats are but it's Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Ettrick or something along those lines. Tsk tsk I should know since I live here. Another election for me then? How will I cope? 

    Slightly unusual move, you'd think he'd wait to see if he got the MP job before quitting the MSP job. It'll be interesting to see what happens if other MSPs stand for the GE seats. Salmond was both an MP and an MSP for a year wasn't he, not that I'm saying it's a particularily good idea?

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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
    1 hour ago, Ravelin said:

    Slightly unusual move, you'd think he'd wait to see if he got the MP job before quitting the MSP job. It'll be interesting to see what happens if other MSPs stand for the GE seats. Salmond was both an MP and an MSP for a year wasn't he, not that I'm saying it's a particularily good idea?

    I'm against anyone trying to do both. How can that work? I've only got a wee rubbish job but I certainly couldn't manage two of them at the same time. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I thought Kezia Dugdale's speech against the rape clause was excellent.

    She will have the chance to get rid of it at the second referendum, I wonder how she will vote?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Couple of central stories to this election.

     

    Quote

    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/conservative-welfare-reform-blamed-rising-hunger-and-foodbank-use

    Conservative welfare reform blamed for rising hunger and foodbank use

    Universal Credits blamed for soaring emergency food parcel distribution

    Reform of the benefits system at a UK level has been blamed for rising foodbank use and hunger in Scotland.

    Foodbank operator the Trussell Trust has reported more than 145,000 emergency food packages were handed to people in crisis in 2016-17, a rise of nine percent on the previous year.

    As many as 47,955 children were helped by the service...

     

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: North York Moors
  • Location: North York Moors

    If you read the story it seems to be the actual changeover rather than any problem with the scheme itself.
    Obviously as the daily dose of anti-tory rhetoric you're only supposed to glance at the headline.


     

    This is due to an initial waiting period for first payment of six weeks or more.

    David McAuley, Chief Executive of The Trussell Trust, said: “The move to simplify an often complex welfare system is a welcome one but any large reform can have unforeseen consequences.

    “Foodbanks see first-hand how changes to the welfare system affect people on the ground, and so can offer an early warning to decision-makers.

    “We are sharing our early observations with the Department for Work and Pensions to ensure any adverse side effects Universal Credit can have on people are addressed before full rollout is completed.”

    A spokesperson for the Department of Work and Pensions said: “Under Universal Credit, people are moving into work faster and staying in work longer than under the old system.

    “Universal Credit is designed to mirror the world of work and give people control over their own finances.

    “The majority of UC claimants are confident in managing their money and we work closely with local authorities to support those who need extra help.

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