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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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18 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Yes, that's what was predicted for a No in 2014 (the first bit anyway).

What's your prediction for the Greens?

I think the SNP will get 65% at the next election and the Tories 1%.

err....alrighty then....lol

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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18 minutes ago, skifreak said:

I don't really know what point you are trying to make? My point didn't make any prediction of what the result of an IndyRef would be, rather that it shouldn't matter if the expectation was that No would win, because Scotland voted to stay in two unions and one union is saying Scotland must leave the other union. So it's a democratic necessity that the question be re-asked so a democratic choice can be made as to which path Scotland follows.

There is no need to justify today's vote.

Everyone with respect for democracy and Scotland sees it as valid. Hell, even Kenny Kenny Farquharson. 

To call it into question calls into question democracy itself. Every single bill in every single parliament becomes 'illegitimate'.

We could start with passing of the recent article 50 bill in the HoC. How do we know that was the real will of the people? Maybe they've changed their minds on brexit completely? :)

 

Edited by scottish skier
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6 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

There is no need to justify today's vote.

Everyone with respect for democracy and Scotland sees it as valid. Hell, even Kenny Kenny Farquharson. 

To calls it into question calls into question democracy itself.

We could start with passing of the recent article 50 bill in the HoC. How do we know that was the real will of the people? Maybe they've changed their minds on brexit completely? :)

that's TM's secret plan....lol......tomorrow's big announcement from No 10 will be a second (rigged for 'IN') EU Ref to be held next month to pee on NS's fire....and then NS will be on TV stating the SNP got the figures wrong on the 1st Brexit vote, Scotland actually voted out, and accordingly will invoke section 30 for another indyref as Scotland are being forced to stay in Europe against their will.....pure satire of course, but then, that's how politics seemingly works these days......

just to add, joking aside, that I would welcome another Brexit vote, it won't happen of course, but I'd wager the result would be different if it were to happen

Edited by ajpoolshark
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I'd just like to say....from having a loathing of this thread, I'm enjoying contributing now.....It's a personally fascinating thread, and IMO recent days in here have shown that friend or foe, unionist or nationalist (and interested neutrals) members can have reasonable debate, indeed debate with humour and banter....What I personally hated was the occasional Anti-english or anti-indyref rant from some members...That, thankfully,, seems to have gone (at least for now)....Yes, there are opposing views, and these are expressed passionately at times, but there does seem to be an undercurrent of respect to and from contributors....keep up the good work :good:

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May could play a blinder now by putting Scotland's request for an indyref to the people in the form of EUref2!

The question should be: Should the UK leave the EU given that it would probably mean the end of the Union?

Oh, how the nationalists would spit if she did that!

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1 hour ago, ajpoolshark said:

which is what I think will happen should NO win next time around....The SNP will be a busted flush, people will get fed up of their particular brand of drum beating....that's not to say of course that another political party take over the banner or a new pro-indy party start afresh?

This is what puzzled me earlier with the accusation that the SNP are calling for another Ref because they're "power mad".

Under the current set up you would imagine they could stay in charge for as long as they like!

I would imagine the real risk for the SNP might come after a yes vote, as presumably, once the Indy question is settled, you might then see some new parties forming representing  the centre right and left, maybe diluting their support?

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7 minutes ago, Dougal said:

May could play a blinder now by putting Scotland's request for an indyref to the people in the form of EUref2!

The question should be: Should the UK leave the EU given that it would probably mean the end of the Union?

Oh, how the nationalists would spit if she did that!

Why? I'd be all for that, unless of course you think England would vote to Remain in the EU under those circumstances? Remember that the Scottish Government offered a compromise where they proposed that Scotland stay in the EU to some extent whilst the rest of the UK departed. There could be little complaint if England voted to leave the EU with it automatically triggering a break up of the UK. What would be really funny in those circumstances were if England changed to Stay and Scotland changed to Leave.

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Well people can't say politics isn't interesting at the moment with so much going on. I'm fascinated to see how this next indy ref works out, what the campaign messages will be and how Westminster might play this when we get nearer to the vote.

To a degree Sturgeon is helping those in the rest of the UK who want a softer Brexit. Its clear that the harder the Brexit the more likely Scotland will vote Yes.

So  if May really does value the Union then she'll try to make Brexit softer whilst trying to look like she hasn't done so in order to not look like shes made any compromises to keep Scotland in the Union.

Its also clear that Mays threat to walk away with no deal is just more bluster , no deal will guarantee without doubt the end of the Union.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, lawrenk said:

I would imagine the real risk for the SNP might come after a yes vote, as presumably, once the Indy question is settled, you might then see some new parties forming representing  the centre right and left, maybe diluting their support?

One possibility is that the economically left and right elements peel off gradually leaving a more centrist party rather than a broad church, but while you can't please all of the people all of the time, if the SNP lives up to its name to be a national party - that is a party for all parts and all people of Scotland it could well remain a broader church than many would expect after independence. The object of the SNP is not independence for the sake of independence, but a belief that building a more prosperous, fairer and better Scotland requires it - thus independence is not the end, it is a means to starting the journey to the end.

That is an aspect of the SNP that seems to enrage Labour and the Tories equally, as someone complained post the 2011 election that the SNP could not be effectively attacked from the left or the right!

In terms of the SNP post a second IndyRef No vote, then the above paragraph also holds. However there is more than that.

The effect on infrastructure planning & delivery in Scotland of devolution has been profound, hugely positive and it's been stepped up significantly by the SNP Scottish Government. There is an aspect to this that matters more than the potential economic benefits and the aim of spreading economic opportunity more equally around Scotland, there are now Scottish Ministers who are driving forward projects to create a truly national intercity road and rail network for Scotland. That seeing Scotland as a nation in it's own right and delivering the infrastructure a nation should have, rather than treating Scotland as a backwater region is not just massively popular, it is powerful in ways I don't think is fully comprehended. 

Scotland is not going to return to voting for parties that wish to govern Scotland as a region not a nation.

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4 hours ago, CreweCold said:

I can't say it is, no. Considering I cannot stand racism in any way shape or form and feel very very strongly about this. 

So carry on with your cheap shots, by all accounts.

I'll be sure to avoid following a joke with another joke in the future. Sorry for any feathers ruffled!

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5 hours ago, NorthernRab said:

I'll be sure to avoid following a joke with another joke in the future. Sorry for any feathers ruffled!

Can't say that inferring someone is bigoted is a joke really...I'm a funny guy but it's not personally one I've ever pulled out of the hat.

Edited by CreweCold
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She's just doing what colleagues in Westminster have traditionally done when 'whinging jocks' try to speak on behalf of their constituents.

It's what Tories think of non-brits in general.

Quote

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15187833.Ruth_Davidson_urged_to_apologise_after_mocking_accent_of_SNP_MSP_amid_heated_debate/

Ruth Davidson urged to apologise after mocking accent of SNP MSP amid heated debate

RUTH Davidson has been urged to apologise after mocking the accent of an SNP MSP...

The Scottish Conservative leader was accused of resorting to “hectoring and pathetic personal jibes” after joking about the nasal twang of South of Scotland MSP Joan McAlpine.

 

Edited by scottish skier
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Voting Remain seems to have been the key? That or renewed excitement about independence anyway.

Some good news at this time anyway; little that there is right now.

Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39378610

Scotland's visitor attractions 'outperform' UK

Scottish leading visitor attractions "outperformed" the UK average last year, according to new figures.

The Association of Leading Visitor Attractions (ALVA) said it saw a 7.2% increase across all its UK sites last year but Scotland went up 15.6%.

The 10 most popular sites in the UK were all in London.

 

Edited by scottish skier
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46 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

A few choice words to mark the day from Hugo Rifkind, son of Thatcher's right hand man, and of #Bettertogether fame. 

Onwards to the end of the UK. The final stage of the journey begins today.

 

Screenshot_20170329-073455.png

Hugo's been on the Scottish reddit! :D

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As noted in the EU thread, and fitting for today...

The great British business brexodus comfortably underway now.

Quote

http://www.euronews.com/2017/03/29/lloyds-of-london-picks-brussels-for-eu-subsidiary-report

Lloyd's of London picks Brussels for EU subsidiary - report

LONDON (Reuters) – Lloyd’s of London [SOLYD.UL], the world’s largest speciality insurance market, has picked Brussels for its planned European Union subsidiary, The Insurance Insider reported late on Tuesday. It will ask its council to ratify the decision when it meets later, the publication said, on the same day British Prime Minister Theresa May triggers Article 50 of the EU’s Lisbon Treaty. 

#sansplanbrexit

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I'm hoping Angus Robertson asks the PM the following question at PMQs---

"Yesterday, the Scottish Parliament, confirmed that the Scottish people are sovereign and that they alone should decide what form of Government they face. Does the Prime Minister believe that the people of Scotland are sovereign or this House?"

Either that, or just walk out on mass promising not to return until Scotland constitutional future has been decided.

Hopefully the SNP will carry out some sort of gesture today.

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This was obvious you anyone living the real, actual world, but worth noting.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-parliament-uk-no-free-trade-deal-two-years-brexit-talks-philip-hammond-optimism-theresa-may-city-a7655686.html

EU Parliament vows UK won't get free trade deal in the next two years – hours after Philip Hammond declares optimism

Any transition deal, to cushion the economic blow from Brexit, can only run for three years and must be 'limited in scope', MEPs will say

The European Parliament has vowed that Britain will not be given a free trade deal by the EU in the next two years – just hours after Philip Hammond insisted he was “very optimistic”.

MEPs also insisted that if Theresa May seeks a transition deal, to cushion the economic blow from Brexit, it can only run for three years and must be “limited in scope”.

There will be no special deal for the City of London giving “preferential access to the single market and, or, the customs union”, the Parliament will also stipulate.

The people of Europe are speaking, and the UK is not superior the 27. The rules are the rules; fair and equal to all.

Edited by scottish skier
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4 hours ago, scottish skier said:

Voting Remain seems to have been the key? That or renewed excitement about independence anyway.

Some good news at this time anyway; little that there is right now.

 

I reckon yesterday's vote was held purely as a cynical attempt by the SNP to bury the bad news about the bridge being delayed, again.

There, a bit of rabid, one-eyed nonsense to balance some of the desperate pro Indy tripe being posted on here.

rob48 (probably) likes this.

Edited by Dougal
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1 hour ago, mountain shadow said:

I'm hoping Angus Robertson asks the PM the following question at PMQs---

"Yesterday, the Scottish Parliament, confirmed that the Scottish people are sovereign and that they alone should decide what form of Government they face. Does the Prime Minister believe that the people of Scotland are sovereign or this House?"

Either that, or just walk out on mass promising not to return until Scotland constitutional future has been decided.

Hopefully the SNP will carry out some sort of gesture today.

Announce an extended period of National Sulking?
Not that anyone would notice, SNP are in constant Sulk unless having a once in a generation referendum every year.

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2 minutes ago, Dougal said:

I reckon yesterday's vote was held purely as a cynical attempt by the SNP to bury the bad news about the bridge being delayed, again.

There, a bit of rabid, one-eyed nonsense to balance some of the desperate pro Indy tripe being posted on here.

Ah, well in that case the attack on Westminster last week must have been an SNP plot to delay the Independence Vote debate so that it could be held yesterday in order to bury the bad news about the bridge.

Phew, these nasty nationalists are almost Turmpesque in their level of deceitfulness.

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