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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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35 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Erm why was her speech delivered in Govan Police Station? 

Because of all the people in Scotland that are used to dealing with extreme, unionist, nutters Govan Police probably have the most experience due to the proximity of Ibrox?*

 

 

 

* Apologies to any 'sensible' Rangers fans.

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45 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

Because of all the people in Scotland that are used to dealing with extreme, unionist, nutters Govan Police probably have the most experience due to the proximity of Ibrox?*

 

 

 

* Apologies to any 'sensible' Rangers fans.

Perhaps Nicola could deliver her next big speech in Maidenhead. I'm sure T.Rex's local Bobbies will be only to happy to keep her safe while the good folk down there pay for the security.

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1 hour ago, scottish skier said:

Are you sure it wasn't East Kilbridge?

Oh now maybe I got it wrong - but you would think that the PRIME MONSTER would know where she was spoking from?:rolleyes:

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Theresa May: "When this great union of nations sets its mind to something and works together with determination, we are an unstoppable force."

Aye, Teresa, I'm sure India, Kenya, Ireland etc...would love to have the Empire's military force back in business.

Deary me.

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7 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

now maybe I got it wrong - but you would think that the PRIME MONSTER would know where she was spoking from!

To be clear, she was in Govan, in addition to a visit to East Kilbridge. :)

3 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

Theresa May: "When this great union of nations sets its mind to something and works together with determination, we are an unstoppable force."

I think the captain of the titanic said something along the same lines when he saw the iceberg ahead.

#brexit

 

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1 minute ago, mountain shadow said:

Theresa May: "When this great union of nations sets its mind to something and works together with determination, we are an unstoppable force."

Aye, Teresa, I'm sure India, Kenya, Ireland etc...would love to have the Empire's military force back in business.

Deary me.

When you look at things in that way, Brexit really is idiocy!

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After this massive oil discovery I presume Sir Ian Wood will walk down Union St in Aberdeen wearing sack cloth and ashes?

It is unlikely that this is a one off discovery. There could be oil all way down the continental shelf.

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This sums up the situation much more succinctly than longer, in-depth articles.

realworld.jpg

No, of course not. Yet she's in charge. 

Scary, isn't it.

'Fun' really starts tomorrow! 

#brexit, #Scotland #NorthernIreland #UNpeaceprocess #Noplan #poundcollapse #businessesleaving #braindrain #eucitizenshostages #zerotradeals #lostgeneration...

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Today set to be a truly historic day for democracy.

The people of Scotland, through their democratically elected representatives, expressing their will to choose Scotland's constitutional future.

Particularly significant is that the vote will be cross party; all Scottish parties, under proportional representation, expected to vote together in support of democracy and the ancient principle of popular sovereignty.

Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39409513

MSPs to back call for Scottish independence vote

MSPs are set to back First Minister Nicola Sturgeon's call for a second independence referendum in a Holyrood vote.

 

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57 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Today set to be a truly historic day for democracy.

The people of Scotland, through their democratically elected representatives, expressing their will to choose Scotland's constitutional future.

Particularly significant is that the vote will be cross party; all Scottish parties, under proportional representation, expected to vote together in support of democracy and the ancient principle of popular sovereignty.

 

Wonder if any SLab MSPs will vote with the SNP and Greens. Don't expect any Conservavative to believe in democracy but you never know. 

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6 minutes ago, frogesque said:

Wonder if any SLab MSPs will vote with the SNP and Greens. Don't expect any Conservavative to believe in democracy but you never know. 

Im Unaware of Scots Law  but as i suspect if this motion is passed  what happens then?   If May Diggs here heels in what will the Scots do next?

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31 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Im Unaware of Scots Law  but as i suspect if this motion is passed  what happens then?   If May Diggs here heels in what will the Scots do next?

We just go ahead and start organising a referendum anyway.

May hasn't specifically 'disagreed', she's just losing the plot and desperately saying 'now is not the time'.

That translates as 'I have no real legal power to stop you ultimately and I'm in a seriously weak position; it's all going to s**t around me. I don't know what the hell to do, so I'm just going to waffle desperately about 'unity' and try to stall for time'.

Meanwhile, in Scotland, Ireland and the 27, everyone's fairly relaxed and getting on with stuff.

I'm personally really pleased she's trying to interfere. When Dave 'agreed' so readily after 2011, I was annoyed as I knew it would hurt the yes vote. I also knew it meant No's internal / in-depth polling data was giving them real confidence.

Jeez, Thatcher was hated but she never insulted in Scotland in this way. Quite the opposite - she was adamant Scotland could become independent whenever it wanted. May is a much bigger gift to Yes.

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36 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Im Unaware of Scots Law  but as i suspect if this motion is passed  what happens then?   If May Diggs here heels in what will the Scots do next?

First step is to complete the debate then vote on the call for a Section 30.

If that goes as expected then Westminster will be formally asked to agree.

Supposing that request is refused, ie. Westminster refuses to accept the democratic will of the Scottish people via our elected MSPs at Holyrood then all hell lets lose politically.

Options include but are not restricted to:

Appeal to the UCHR and/or the UN

Withdrawal of 56 of 59 Scottish MPs from Westminster and reconvening the Scottish Grand Committee leading to Indy via the 'Margaret Thatcher route'

Having the IRef anyway, Westminster just huffs and puffs from the sidelines but would not be legally bound to accept the result. Other countries, esp. Iceland and the EU might might be more obliging. Just look at all that black stuff in Scottish waters!

Nicola Sturgeon, as Scotland's First Minister could seek an audience with Queen Elizabeth, Queen of Scots and request she obays her Coronation Oath to protect Her people (that would be constitutionally interesting!).

Set up our own independent bank an currency and just behave like any other normal Indy country. Effectively UDI ( not a route I would recommend as its frought with difficulties re international recognition.

I'm sure the Kingdom of Scotland has other choices as well. What does the Kingdom of England have? Brexit means Brexit and Morris dancing!

 

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Here's me, confused again and looking for any enlightenment.

Why now?   Why is this oil story being picked up by the media now?   Surely this gives more amunition to the Indey2 campaign.   Just seems odd to me since we now know that Cameron hid this from Scotland before the last Indey ref.   My goodness, SNP activists can have a field day with this info to convince pensioners that they could become some of the richest on the planet if Scotland gets independence.  No?

 

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1 minute ago, Blitzen said:

Here's me, confused again and looking for any enlightenment.

Why now?   Why is this oil story being picked up by the media now?   Surely this gives more amunition to the Indey2 campaign.   Just seems odd to me since we now know that Cameron hid this from Scotland before the last Indey ref.   My goodness, SNP activists can have a field day with this info to convince pensioners that they could become some of the richest on the planet if Scotland gets independence.  No?

 

The black stuff hit the fan a few days ago in a small article in the Financial Times, oil was known but now it's proven reserves. The report was picked up by a poster on Wings and most likely other places as well. News has spread like a beacon from a burning wellhead blowout round Indy supporters. Cat well and truly out the bag and with the internet it's impossible to keep it quiet like the McCrone Report over 30 years ago.

Too wee, too poor, to stupid Scotland? Oil is a bonus but what a bonus! Going to need a bigger piggy bank ( read Scottish National Wealth Fund!) 

Basically T. Rex is trussed and stuffed like a Christmas turkey.

 

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My goodness F,  this is such good news!

I suppose now the next worry is 'The Great Repeal Bill'   Gawd knows what the Tories can and will do with that!

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8 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

My goodness F,  this is such good news!

I suppose now the next worry is 'The Great Repeal Bill'   Gawd knows what the Tories can and will do with that!

Holywrood would need to approve any changes to Scots law I understand.

I can't see that happening readily.

 

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1 hour ago, frogesque said:

First step is to complete the debate then vote on the call for a Section 30.

If that goes as expected then Westminster will be formally asked to agree.

Supposing that request is refused, ie. Westminster refuses to accept the democratic will of the Scottish people via our elected MSPs at Holyrood then all hell lets lose politically.

An interesting question I've just thought of, assuming the Scottish Government get the vote to request a Section 30 order as expected, who gets to decide if it's accepted or refused? Do the Westminster Government i.e. the Tories, have the ability to outright refuse it or is it legally required to be voted on by the whole of parliament? I know the result is likely to be the same but the symbolism of a vote in Westminster with Tories, Lab & LibDems all denying Scotland it's democratic process could be even more potent than just May repeating "Now is not the time" over and over.

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12 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

An interesting question I've just thought of, assuming the Scottish Government get the vote to request a Section 30 order as expected, who gets to decide if it's accepted or refused? Do the Westminster Government i.e. the Tories, have the ability to outright refuse it or is it legally required to be voted on by the whole of parliament? I know the result is likely to be the same but the symbolism of a vote in Westminster with Tories, Lab & LibDems all denying Scotland it's democratic process could be even more potent than just May repeating "Now is not the time" over and over.

Technically just Scots MPs as if they withdraw from Westminster, then what the latter thinks matters not a jot.

Hence Scots always being telt 'If you want Independence, vote nationalist for Westminster!'.  

Of course last time things were a bit complicated as the vast bulk of our MPs were unionist. 

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5 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

An interesting question I've just thought of, assuming the Scottish Government get the vote to request a Section 30 order as expected, who gets to decide if it's accepted or refused? Do the Westminster Government i.e. the Tories, have the ability to outright refuse it or is it legally required to be voted on by the whole of parliament? I know the result is likely to be the same but the symbolism of a vote in Westminster with Tories, Lab & LibDems all denying Scotland it's democratic process could be even more potent than just May repeating "Now is not the time" over and over.

Can't post Linky but from publications.parliament.uk

No Section 30 Order may be made by Her Majesty in Council unless it has been approved by both Houses of the UK Parliament and by the Scottish Parliament.

This was the procedure for IRef#1. With Dictator May now in charge, who knows?!

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8 minutes ago, frogesque said:

Can't post Linky but from publications.parliament.uk

No Section 30 Order may be made by Her Majesty in Council unless it has been approved by both Houses of the UK Parliament and by the Scottish Parliament.

This was the procedure for IRef#1. With Dictator May now in charge, who knows?!

Thanks, but still clear as West Coast Oil. That say it can't be approved without  a vote in both houses of Westminster, but if the  Scottish Government seek one does the Westminster Government have to pass it on to parliament or can they effectively block it by refusing to do so. Alternatively, does the Scottish Government apply for the Section 30 Order directly to Westminster, bypassing the government?

I suspect from the rhetoric so far that it's a request to the Tory Government, who can just refuse it without referring it to a vote in Parliament.

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14 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

I suspect from the rhetoric so far that it's a request to the Tory Government, who can just refuse it without referring it to a vote in Parliament.

I think May is testing the water on this, but so far just trying to delay. The whole 'now is not the time' is a desperate attempt to buy time, without actually saying a new referendum will not happen. 

To not agree to the section 30 order would be the end the UK.

For over 3 centuries there has never, ever been any dispute that Scotland can leave if it wants. Section 30 has no constitutional basis, it's just 'Political'; an agreement that the result will not be disputed.

May kills the union if she tries to argue otherwise and stop a referendum. No Scot would ever stand for that.

It's all very well to support the union, but to deny the democratic will of Scots by agreeing to / supporting the English parliament attempting to overrule the Scottish one? 

No Scot could ever agree to that; nor could any decent English person for that matter.

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8 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

Thanks, but still clear as West Coast Oil. That say it can't be approved without  a vote in both houses of Westminster, but if the  Scottish Government seek one does the Westminster Government have to pass it on to parliament or can they effectively block it by refusing to do so. Alternatively, does the Scottish Government apply for the Section 30 Order directly to Westminster, bypassing the government?

I suspect from the rhetoric so far that it's a request to the Tory Government, who can just refuse it without referring it to a vote in Parliament.

I'm no lawyer so just by reading around it would appear in Law as opposed to rhetoric, a Section 30 request has to go through both houses in Westminster and Holyrood. Obviously, with a majority the Tories can block it but I don't think May can simply refuse on her own.

But what do I know? I'm only the gardener!

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